First time headfier looking for some guidance for a computer setup

The E9 has no "bass boost" feature. The HD 650 is not a headset, it's a headphone (a headset includes a microphone). It includes the cables to connect it to a source, and nothing more. The E9 includes its power cable. They are a fine match. You can plug the E9 into your computer's analog output, or use one of the plug-in devices for it, like the E7, or put a D3 in front of it. The D3 accepts an S/PDIF signal; which it sounds like your computer provides. Just run a single RCA or TOS cable between the computer and D3, or use the E7 and USB. Hard to say what will be best.

Hope you don't mind If I ask a question here OP, rather than starting my own thread 

I'm looking to upgrade my onboard soundcard. It doesn't have a name, just says "High definition Audio device". I used to have a pair of Turtlebeach X1's (with an inline amp) and they sounded great for watching youtube music vids and streaming video but they are now broken. Since then I have decided to try and take my first step into the audiophile world. I have the sennheiser HD558, and the sound coming out of the onboard chip is terrible. Bass is non-existant and music sounds very harsh.

Since I'm just a beginner I don't really want to spend a lot of money. I'm trying to decide whether I should get a soundcard or an External Dac. The soundcard will be confined to the pc, but it can be relatively cheaper and has extra functions such as dolby headphones etc. External dac/amps such as the fiio E7/E17 are more versatile but cost more than I'd like to pay (although If I had no choice I'd get it). Can anyone suggest Soundcards/dacs I should be looking at and why?

I will be using it to listen to music (j-pop/jrock/K-pop) and to watch anime/tv Programmes (both download in HD and streamed off the web). It won't be used for gaming at all, but features such as dolby headphone etc would be nice for watching videos. I will be getting an Asus transformer tablet in the near future so it would be nice if suggested dacs/amps were compatible with that. 

Sorry for the long read and thanks in advance 

It may simply be that the Sennheiser are different than you're expecting. The lack of bass comment is what makes me say that. What kind of media are you playing into them?

Regarding a new device, given that you're connecting to multiple devices, I'd look for something USB based that can move with your devices. The E7 is an easy pick; they're not terribly expensive either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich 

It may simply be that the Sennheiser are different than you're expecting. The lack of bass comment is what makes me say that. What kind of media are you playing into them?

 

Regarding a new device, given that you're connecting to multiple devices, I'd look for something USB based that can move with your devices. The E7 is an easy pick; they're not terribly expensive either.

 

Well it's true I am rather underwhelmed with the senns at the moment. I have 3 phones (Soundmagic E10, Koss Ksc75, and the 558's) and all of them lack impact. I've got an RB'd sansa clip (v1) and on flat eq the music has no body or impact. The whole presentation feels miniscule, both with rock and pop. I'm going to try and get a digizoid ZO2 (if they ever come back in stock), hopefully that'll have what I'm looking for.

Would you recommend anything other than the E7 if I said it was only to be used with the pc? I basically just want to get a clean sound so that I know if there is anything that is lacking or needs adjusting it's to do with the headphones/amp (or lack of it).

If you're just setting up something with your desktop/laptop/whatever (something stationary with wall power), I like the Fiio E9. 

I'm not sure how much body or impact you want, but there's plenty of headphones that have more bass slam than the ones you've listed. That said, don't expect speaker-like response; it's a different experience. You might want to try something less neutral and more colored; Grado, Ultrasone, something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich 

If you're just setting up something with your desktop/laptop/whatever (something stationary with wall power), I like the Fiio E9. 

 

I'm not sure how much body or impact you want, but there's plenty of headphones that have more bass slam than the ones you've listed. That said, don't expect speaker-like response; it's a different experience. You might want to try something less neutral and more colored; Grado, Ultrasone, something like that.

 

 

I'm not an absolute basshead. I just like body and impact in the sound. Like feeling the hit of a xylophone or the strings of a guitar rather than just hearing them. Is that different from bass or the same? I'm hoping the digizoid fixes the problem. As for the e9, I've had the fiio e6, and I've used various other DAV's, they music didn't really improve that much, although I didn't spend much time with them and my analysing/comparing skills are rubbish. You've suggested an amp, but I need a dac. What do you use for your pc/laptop and what kind of differences have you noticed?

I have a soundcard in my PC that feeds into the E9 (among other stuff); analog connections. I've used outboard DSPs and DACs and just don't see the point; it's extra money and power for nothing (assuming you don't need the processing/voodoo features that whatever device gives you). I think, based on what you've said, a different headphone is probably the ticket. Amplification may be worthwile, depending on the headphone. A DAC will not re-shape the abilities of a headphone; you can push up different freqs in an EQ but you'll run into various limits. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich 

I have a soundcard in my PC that feeds into the E9 (among other stuff); analog connections. I've used outboard DSPs and DACs and just don't see the point; it's extra money and power for nothing (assuming you don't need the processing/voodoo features that whatever device gives you). I think, based on what you've said, a different headphone is probably the ticket. Amplification may be worthwile, depending on the headphone. A DAC will not re-shape the abilities of a headphone; you can push up different freqs in an EQ but you'll run into various limits. 

 

 

I'm unsure as to why dacs go up to ridiculous prices, but I know for sure any dac will be better than my onboard sound. It will get rid of the electrical noise for starters, but also will get rid of the harsh treble and lack of bass that I don't get with my sansa clip. 

They go up to ridiculous prices because people will pay the ridiculous prices based on nonsense word-of-mouth claims and audiophile beliefs (the price also positions them attractively; if they're expensive surely they must do something to justify it!). As far as "will be better than" - how do you know this for certain? The electrical noise is one thing (and an unfortunately common feature on many commodity PCs - this cannot be fixed without replacing the entire motherboard (and there's nothing to say a new board won't do the same thing)), but the other claims seem somewhat extraordinary. I'd be looking at the Sansa as well (methinks it's probably just better suited to driving what you've plugged into it, or that it applies a "house curve"). 

Look at a decent internal soundcard, shouldn't cost you more than $50-$60, if you still want more power, look at something like the Fiio E9 on top of that. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayleighSilvers 

I'm unsure as to why dacs go up to ridiculous prices, but I know for sure any dac will be better than my onboard sound. It will get rid of the electrical noise for starters, but also will get rid of the harsh treble and lack of bass that I don't get with my sansa clip. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich 

They go up to ridiculous prices because people will pay the ridiculous prices based on nonsense word-of-mouth claims and audiophile beliefs (the price also positions them attractively; if they're expensive surely they must do something to justify it!). As far as "will be better than" - how do you know this for certain? The electrical noise is one thing (and an unfortunately common feature on many commodity PCs - this cannot be fixed without replacing the entire motherboard (and there's nothing to say a new board won't do the same thing)), but the other claims seem somewhat extraordinary. I'd be looking at the Sansa as well (methinks it's probably just better suited to driving what you've plugged into it, or that it applies a "house curve"). 

 

Look at a decent internal soundcard, shouldn't cost you more than $50-$60, if you still want more power, look at something like the Fiio E9 on top of that. 

 

Not exactly sure what an "house curve" is. Are you referring to the sansa coloring the frequency? Everyone says the sansa has a flat EQ so I don't think that is the problem, unless I've misunderstood you. You could be right about me just needing an amp. I've been plugged into the line out of the motherboard all this time because the headphone jack couldn't physically get into the headphone out. But I've managed to find an extension of some sort that fits. The sibilance is now gone, all that's left is bass but that is also lacking on the clip, so I'm guess that final link is the Amp as you mentioned? 

I'm still trying to get my head around how an amp can help apart from increasing the volume. I listen at low levels anyway so an amp wont help me in that respect. Although I read something about impedance peaks so maybe that has something to do with the lack of bass impact?

A "house curve" is something that a manufacturer can design into a device. It's very common with AVRs and other devices that are DSP based. Essentially "they" plug in an FR curve that "they" think is ideal (they = whatever CE manufacturer) for a variety of reasons (it can be based on Fletcher-Munson, for example). A very "open" example of this is the Audyssey Reference Curve which is found on Audyssey equipped devices, and when the device is calibrated using Audyssey it targets the Reference Curve, not "flat." (Unless the calibration is done by a CI and they have the Audyssey Pro kit (or if you just went on ebay and bought the Audyssey Pro kit )). 

Anyways, I don't know for certain that the Sansa is or isn't doing this. I would not be surprised if it is, is my point. Many devices DO do this, and many of them DO NOT inform the user (as in, it's never mentioned in the user manual or marketing literature). You'd have to test the device on an analyzer to know for certain what it's doing to the FR. 

Now, regarding the whole amplifier and everything else affair. If you have an electrical humming/buzzing coming out from the computer's onboard audio, this is not going to be fixed by an amplifier or anything else that connects to that onboard audio - the signal will just go through. It's a common problem with onboard audio solutions. There is no "fix" aside from bypassing the device and using something else (like a USB audio controller or a soundcard). If you don't have that noise, and the issue is just bass response, that's one of two things:

- The headphones you haven't aren't very bassy or aren't bassy enough for your tastes (the first part of this is true, the second part may or may not be true; I don't know your hearing). 

- The "thing" driving the headphones sucks at driving the load (headphones) you're presenting it. See here for an example:

http://www.afrotechmods.com/reallycheap/soundcard/sennheiser.htm (don't go adding caps all willy-nilly unless you get why and where)

So if the second point is the problem, an amplifier will solve that problem, by presenting a high impedance load to the sound card, and having an amplifier inside it that can wrestle with the headphones while staying linear. 

It's hard to say which is the problem, at least in your case, as you've only listed a few headphones that you have (or have heard). It could be entirely possible that everything is working just as it should be, and the 558s just aren't for you. On the other hand, the 558s could be improperly driven here, causing FR variations. 

Since you stated that the Sansa "lacks bass" as well, I'm guessing it's the 558s - not your sources. If the PC's output is "clean" I would suggest another pair of headphones - if you want to try something with lots more bass impact, try the Ultrasone HFI-2400, I can't think of a good "middle-ground" between where you are and the HFI-2400 (at least in that same price range); maybe someone else will be of help there. If you want to try an amplifier, try one of the Fiio products; worst case scenario you verify the 558s aren't for you, and now have an amplifier available for anything else you'd like to try in the future. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayleighSilvers 

Not exactly sure what an "house curve" is. Are you referring to the sansa coloring the frequency? Everyone says the sansa has a flat EQ so I don't think that is the problem, unless I've misunderstood you. You could be right about me just needing an amp. I've been plugged into the line out of the motherboard all this time because the headphone jack couldn't physically get into the headphone out. But I've managed to find an extension of some sort that fits. The sibilance is now gone, all that's left is bass but that is also lacking on the clip, so I'm guess that final link is the Amp as you mentioned? 

 

I'm still trying to get my head around how an amp can help apart from increasing the volume. I listen at low levels anyway so an amp wont help me in that respect. Although I read something about impedance peaks so maybe that has something to do with the lack of bass impact?

Thanks a lot your posts. It must take you considerable time and I appreciate the help.

I bought the senns because they were my first "audiophile" headphones and I wanted something that was good all around. I was initially going to buy the beyers 770/80 or the DT 990/250 but I refrained because I was going to use the headphones for gaming as well and the bass would've drowned out the detail, but in hindsight that was a mistake. The company I bought the 558's from don't let you return an item if you break the seal so that's kind of annoying. If you've had experiences with sound/bass enchancers, that is along the lines of the kind of effect I'm looking for, without completely drowning out everything else. I did have a go at some sennheiser HD 25-II that were plugged into some unknown amp. Although the soundstage was comparable to my IEM's (I.e not very good), the bass impact was very good, probably sufficient enough I would say.  

I'm trying to get hold of either the cowon j3 with it's Mach3Bass or a digizoid but none are in stock. From what I've read they do exactly what I want, but I was hoping I would get the sound I wanted without having to buy all these extra. I'll give credit to the senns where it's due though. There are some tracks in my library where they just come to life with their soundstage and seperation, 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gdkiv 
Been trying to find a good headset setup, but there are lot of opinions,info and ideas out there.

all this is new for me so please bear with me.  my budget is in the "bang for buck" state...

so i think need some specific help,

I found a headset that seemed to be loved by many, the sennheiser 650. 

was in a bit of war with the 600 model, but i think the 650 can work for me. is this overpriced??

(i will be using the headset mostly in a closed quiet room. so if anybody thinks a different headset works better feel free to tell me)

but it needs a amplifier so had to find the right one.

seems one of  the best bang for buck headset amps for the 650 is the Fiio E-9   http://www.fiio.com.cn/product/index.aspx?ID=19

okay but onboard sound cards is not ideal so this DAC converter thing is perfect.

the E7 seems like a perfect match for the E9    http://www.fiio.com.cn/product/index.aspx?ID=28&MenuID=020301

but some review said the the D3 dac worked better with E9

better sound and you get to keep the E9 bass boster. and half the price of the E7 but you lose the usb input, 

but with the E9/D3 combo it seems i need Coaxial/Optical out. 

the problem is my computer only has Direct and SPDIF (Onboard)

but can i connect the e9/d3 set to my logitech pc speakers?
the pc speakers are connected to my pc with normal 6ch direct cables..
Logitech speakers have coaxial and optical input.
or do this d3-e9-headset combo need to be connect directly to the computer/music player and not through another music system?
All this is new to me, but i am looking into getting a good sennheiser 650 headset rig. so i am trying to find the best e9 with dac combo and still be able to play music through my computer
But I am unsure of all this cables and inputs stuff, because i have never had a headset setup before.
I think my wish would be to have the e9 (heard the senn 650 needs power) with a good dac but still have the e9 bass boost, and usb connection.

also what cables do i need for this? I do not think the headset, amps and all that comes with cables.

any tips and help would be greatly appreciated

The Asus Xonar Essence STX (PCI-Express) sound card comes with a built in headphone amplifier and has a S/PDIF (digital optical output).

So you can plug your Senn HD650 headphones into it headphone jack and your speakers (Logitech Z-5500?) into the sound cards S/PDIF.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayleighSilvers 
Hope you don't mind If I ask a question here OP, rather than starting my own thread 

I'm looking to upgrade my onboard soundcard. It doesn't have a name, just says "High definition Audio device". I used to have a pair of Turtlebeach X1's (with an inline amp) and they sounded great for watching youtube music vids and streaming video but they are now broken. Since then I have decided to try and take my first step into the audiophile world. I have the sennheiser HD558, and the sound coming out of the onboard chip is terrible. Bass is non-existant and music sounds very harsh.

Since I'm just a beginner I don't really want to spend a lot of money. I'm trying to decide whether I should get a soundcard or an External Dac. The soundcard will be confined to the pc, but it can be relatively cheaper and has extra functions such as dolby headphones etc. External dac/amps such as the fiio E7/E17 are more versatile but cost more than I'd like to pay (although If I had no choice I'd get it). Can anyone suggest Soundcards/dacs I should be looking at and why?

I will be using it to listen to music (j-pop/jrock/K-pop) and to watch anime/tv Programmes (both download in HD and streamed off the web). It won't be used for gaming at all, but features such as dolby headphone etc would be nice for watching videos. I will be getting an Asus transformer tablet in the near future so it would be nice if suggested dacs/amps were compatible with that. 

Sorry for the long read and thanks in advance 

The Asus Xonar DG sound card is cheap, comes with Dolby Digital (Dolby Virtual Headphone). but would only work with your desktop.

The Fiio E10 (USB/DAC/Headphone amplifier) would work with your desktop and Transformer tablet.