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cup tuning basics. - Page 2

post #16 of 293
Thread Starter 

note to self:

 the inner wall mod is a very delicate technique. I need to figure out how much water is too much and amount of movement to get slurry right. For some reason I end up with bare wood on certain cups....could this be because the cups were not dipped, but wiped on finish and therefore not penetrated deep enough? must figure that out asap. 


could also be the type of oil. I know danish oil slurry's well but have suspicion is a dog for sound generally. Linseed oil and santos next project.

Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/28/12 at 1:35am
post #17 of 293

You grado dudes are serious(ly nuts) {>;)

post #18 of 293
Thread Starter 

how so?

post #19 of 293
post #20 of 293

Now that's what I'd call diy and modding spirit! Thanks for sharing your findings and letting people participate in your research.

post #21 of 293
Thread Starter 

thanks for the support guys ! good things coming soon.........

post #22 of 293

I'm really impressed with your dedication and effort in researching these cups! Waiting to learn more! 

post #23 of 293
Thread Starter 

tiger maple with boiled linseed oil (2 to1 mineral spirits/linseed oil) 1 coat 1 day later    vs raw limba  




gin blossoms 'someday soon'

maple: acoustic guitar very natural. space still there, a distant detail and truness of sound not heard in any other wood. at 2:50 -3:05 can actually hear the quality of the wood block being tapped to time way in the background. with limba, not only can I basically not hear the block of wood, I certainly can't hear it's quality.


low end on limba is blurry, same up into low mids.


slowly dragged chords, almost arpeggio, are fully heard as the pick is raked across the strings with maple. the sound is simultanoeusly very paced and at the same time in slow motion as you hear the nuance. Similar to its affect on vocal vibrato, time seems to slow down, but the pace of the song keeps on going. This may be it's most amazing quality. It lingers on the parts of the performance where the musican is really puttig himself into it and simultaneously keeps a very quick pace to the background of the song.


limba has none of this. in comparison, sounds like the entire band is playing in a pad coated room. no room ambiance


the feel of the hardened lindseed oil cup is very stiff. even one wiped on coat totally turned this into a hard feeling piece of wood. but this is not your exotic wood hardness. it's light and not dense at all. it's stiff.






the connells, one simple word - same as above. bass far superior with santos.more detail, more natural



Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/29/12 at 12:56am
post #24 of 293
Thread Starter 

same as above except drivers are exchanged from cup to cup


same results as above. - Since I'm only using one driver for each wood, this test makes sure it is not driver variation that is repsonisble for the difference. Was 99% sure it wasn't because I know these drivers would not have been so different. especially since they have same number of hours on them....nice to confirm though.

Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/28/12 at 1:49pm
post #25 of 293
Thread Starter 

 tiger maple raw vs 1 day 2parts mineral spirits to 1 diluted linseed oil


the raw cup is 1.75" long

treated cup is 1.25" long


longer raw cup still has no redeeming value in comparison


linseed oil seems to be nice. need to shorten the cup now to 1.25" and do a true a/b with the same size raw vs treated tiger maple to finally hear the finish affects. out to the chop saw........

Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/29/12 at 12:57am
post #26 of 293
Thread Starter 



raw tiger maple vs linseed tiger maple, both cups are now 1.25" .........finish the only variable


the linseed cup makes the raw cup sound like limba in comparison. When i heaerd maple in raw form with limba, it was night and day, now almost the same with treated vs raw maple. Never imagiend it would go up in it desirable qualities, I was just hoping for a negation of some of its negatives.


need to listen more to see if it did negate some of its negatives



Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/29/12 at 1:00am
post #27 of 293
Thread Starter 

note to self: need to put these wire leads on clips....why am i soldering these every time? not necessary

post #28 of 293
Thread Starter 

limba, raw sleeve vs sleeve with plastic end cap fit tightly. only variable


amazing find !


instantly recognize the affect of an end cap. subtle but it's a tightening of tone and more


if you play guitar, imagine a bass guitar string jangling an E flat note. now imagine the string tension is tightened to E natural. it's that kind of tightening. frankly i'm not sure I want or need it but reminds me of my hf 2 quality. it was a quality i was on the fence about actually.


I heard this quality with the hf2 but never would have guessed it was the end cap's affect. 


without cap things are more alive. bass guitar more alive, everything really.  I think i'd rather damp things differently if at all. Will only know this once I get some full cups made with full finish treatment but have another intersting idea that I have great hopes for. Will take me a great deal of time to make a cup with it but will do it. It's a laminated 3 piece cup, with a 1/8" or so layer of hard to medium hard rubber.foam laminated right at the back end of driver so it's not in the sound chamber. So basically 1/4" limba, 1/8" anti vibration device, 7/8" santos ....is the idea. will compare this to full one piece santos. will take me several days to make this though, lots of millwork involved and need to source the right damoing material....any ideas shooet 'em out....I have a plastic and foam supplier right around the corner where i live, might be a good place to start. the thickness is key since I just want to glue laminate and not have to dimension it myself.. btw this has nothing to do with the driver. it mounts and is untouched. I am just going to make a cup with a thin laminated section in the middle to stop transfer of vibration from the moving driver to the rest of the cup. the placement of the vibration material is critical since i don't want it in the sound chamber....so it will be towards the front end of the cup but right at the back edge of the driver....that's the idea in any case

Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/28/12 at 1:18pm
post #29 of 293
Thread Starter 

time to check in on those 'imaginary' burn inaffects.....150 hours vs 300 v4 magnum


otherwise identical limba sleeves. driver time only variable



150 is simultaneneously 'brighter' and yet less detailed in treble. cymbals upper end percussion very nice on 300 set.....


so the brightness is not from increased treble on the 150, it is upper mid brightness. which was alredy know to me but nice to confirm that and also learn that the trebles should only get better.


getting closer



bass more natural and defined on 300 hour set. everything really. a slight mid bloom and richness of sound which is one reason i use the magnum to begin with is there on the 300 hour set. I wonder if this is the limba- i believe it is. and wonder if i will miss this quality with santos? suspicion is that the bloom with limba is the same thing as the extended slow down affect on vibrato and arppegios in the santos, it just manifests itself differently.......excited about this the most. in each case, (limba and santos) it is this quality which is where the magic is. everything else is about getting natural sounds and even e/q but to have a touch of magic always there is what it's about for me. I don't want totally neutral. And in each case, this magical quality is totally natural, so it's not an nunatural 'bloom' or an unatural 'extension of vibrato. It's totally natural......


the character of instruments is more evident on 300 hour set. just overall more musical and enjoyable.


but generally i'd say things are going in the right direction. will not check in again until 250/300 hours.



Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/28/12 at 1:58pm
post #30 of 293
Thread Starter 


settled on this 1/32 paper which is vinyl impregnated fiberglass....a couple layers of this lamininated into the cup should show interestesting results




actually, once this is epoxyied, it will be quite stiff, may not serve my purpose of damping, I may need a 1/16" piece of actual rubber or some other anti vibratory material....will need to make a few different cups with different materials and then compare to standard full wood cup,

Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/28/12 at 1:20pm
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