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Impressions: New Lawton Audio 'Angle Pads' (sheepskin/leather) PICTURES ADDED - Page 12

post #166 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by olegausany View Post

 
 
 

 


Thanks for impressions. So there is no harsh treble for you?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by munchzilla View Post

hi - checking in here to hear about treble changes (as above user asked)

do they reduce treble harshness anything? I'm on the lookout for a pair of D5000 and I'm a bit worried about the treble, since what I remember from trying the D2000 briefly was that treble could be a bit harsh. I was hoping these pads would help a bit with that (and tone down bass a bit)

 

Sorry for missing this thread for a while!  In my opinion Denons are simply bright headphones, no way around it.  If you ignore the bombastic low end, you end up with a bright headphone.  However, the greater distance from driver to ear, and the change in damping from vinyl to leather, does have somewhat reduced effect on that treble energy.  It's no longer as piercing to the ear as K702 for example, but not as easy to listen to as HD650 or HE-400.   It's still bright & punchy, but in a more tolerable way for those of us with treble fatigue.  

 

If you're ultra treble sensitive, Denons are still probably not the way to go. But if you're only somewhat treble sensitive, these pads definitely flatten out the response by a noticible margin.  One of the biggest changes is simply that they bring the midrange more to par level with the treble, so you're not driving as much treble energy in relation to the midrange energy.

post #167 of 182

I should have given a review, or at least a mini review of what these pads do.

 

Actually on the website it shows 'version 2' pads as being the current ones. Mine were the early original version 1, although I doubt there is any difference. I might ask mark out of curiosity...

Anyway, here's what I think of them after using them often over two months with the d7k

 

 

1) Visual

- Appearance is good. They look well finished, clean and neat. They look professional and easily fit enough to be official manufacturer produce. Both pads are very similar but, posing no problem, the pad on my left has slightly less filling at the thin front section of the pad (most near to my tragus). This isn't something that is visually apparent actually but only determined after squeezing them.

 

 

 

2) Physical

-Comfort is good enough. It's a step down from the original denon pads, no matter how you look at it. It's just that it's less plush, cushy and so less comfortable. For me I did find the stock d7k to be a bit loose and an increase in clamping force is well welcomed BUT the firmness of the pads mean for an overall less comfortable experience. Don't get me wrong- with lawton pads the denon d7000 is a very comfortable headphone. If it wasn't I wouldn't have it on my head right now.

One can upon recieval of lawton pads prior to installation massage them to break them in a bit. Just like for one/two hours gently massage them with your thumb or something to soften out some of the stiffness in the leather/filling. On a last point, these pads weigh around 20grams more than the original, so it brings up the weight of these 2012 d7000's to around 345 grams or so. No that wasn't the last point here- this is; yep they reduce sweat compared to the originals but by not as much too much as the stock are pretty good in this regard regardless of what material they actually are (btw these d

 

-Installation- not that hard. I'm not going to go through it step by step as there's plenty of other guides. Pushing down hard on the pad with a flat palm of hand was the method I used (then you rotate your palm which is sufficiently gripped to the pad a little anticlockwise to set it loose) to take of the stock pads. Actually, the first time I removed d7k's pads it was quite a bit tougher than the other times- not because I changed technique- but it's like the first time you open up a laptop panel or something similar. You know, the next time you do it it's going to be more giving.

The rings were easy to swap from the old to the new pads, slightly less difficult as putting the pads on the phone, where only after hearing the ring protudes sort of clicking into the headphone slits do you turn the pad clockwise (again using the palm of the hand and downward pressure).

 

-Longevity. I haven't detected any change of sound due to pad burn in (remember I slightly massaged the pads first). They feel the same in comfort too- lets say at the 600 hour they feel the same as at 100hrs. So lawtons angle pads break in slightly but after that, no. Oh, and of course, they look the same too.

 

-Isolation/leakage

This is a bit surprising. I remember someone say that the jmoney pads may have increased the denons isolation property but my time with this pad reveals no such property. It isolates basically as low as before. HOWEVER sound leakage definitely has improved. This is definite. I've done specific a/b'ing just for this pupose between both sets of pads and asked the people in my room to shut everything else up (fan/computer/windows/mouths/tv...) and listen for leakage. At my 'normal to high' volume the d7k with these leather pads doesn't leak which is only replicated by the stock d7k at 'low to normal' volume. Hey, you try to offer reasons for this. It could be that the stock fit is too loose. Or these new pads are deeper. Or these are made of an insulating leather. Whatever the reason the leakage is reduced noticably.   

 

 

 

3) Sound

-A note about my d7000- burn in

 

I compared the d7k to a disused (but well burned in) d2k to test for d7k burn in effects, from an invariant setup and source. During this time I was never wearing the headphone alleviating any possible effect of pad burn in/ sweat/ so on. I noticed not a single thing change sound wise when I was burning them in between the 20hr and the 500hr mark. Actually I exclusively used a few sibilant tracks to test with and the d7k had a noticably harsher treble to that of the d2k, by a margin of around 300%.

 

All this basically meant was that the d7k's were unusable for me. I couldn't hack their screamy, sharp, aggressive, bumped up, tinny,........ high range so I put them back in their box and was going to flog them when I had the time. 

Hmmm, I had an idea though. You know that certain tribe on headfi talking about burn in only coming into existance after a certain thousand hours- how do you know the falsity of their statements?..........        I mean had I ever tested for it?...... 

Not really no, so I decided to put my money where my mouth was and let the d7k burn in for, yep, nearly 2 months during which time I not once touched the phone. (The burn in audio was a steady loop of 15 miniute pink noise with a 45 second period of silence on the end. It was the sansa fuze on continuous perpetual charge that got used/abused here)

 

I for the final time pitched the d7k against the d2k at around 1800 hours and the difference was Very clearly noticable. The entire treble ranged problems had decreased easily by half and now they were, and remain to this day, only slightly brighter than the d2k. I don't think anything else changed including the bass, but it was this agressiveness (some call it resonance) within the sibilance ranges of 8khz say that were alleviated with this burn in. Yep, the drivers had settled to give a much more balanced phone.

 

 

- vs Stock d7k without a/b'ing

The difference is a bit of a shock. Hey, scratch that- I've changed pads before on other phones and have always found the difference a padswap makes to be massive. This time the change is a good one. Sound stage increases in depth bigtime although not as much in height. I've found this to be a real bonus in classical music as it benefits greatly from an improved soundstage presence making it feel more alive yet absorbing at the same time. In some tracks though of acoustic nature especially those involving african drums this added depth of the soundstage can make the phone sound more hollow/cave like....

Anyway, the bass seems to become more clear, with more in the way of individual beats and rythms instead of a tint on bloat. Also the highs become slightly more smoother and less sibilant prone.

But the biggest improvement is in imaging, especially 3d imaging. Now you do get instruments really surrounding you and an escape from traditional headphone left and right audio deployment. 

 

 

-vs Stock d7k with a/b'ing

Well, there of course is a change compared to the above case. We still have a much larger soundstage, although the hollow charachtersitic I identified above can be attributed now to the bass becoming ever so slightly more boomy. I don't mind it at all, but some dampening would fix this I believe. It's not my main headphone, so i'm not interested in dampening it. Perfectly fine how it is. 

The other thing that an a/b reveals is that these new pads don't really change the sibilance/agressiveness of the highs much at all. I'd still say they do a little, but less than initially thought. I guess by spreading the sound out it lets the midrange breath, but it stays as recessed as it always was (post burn in of course). 

Lastly, yep the imaging is definitely better. Again, it's taking the benefit of a larger area for notes to spread out in and so its able to provide more of an emphasis on individual notes. I guess to some ears it makes these notes sound thinner.

 

There's not much else to it really soundwise. I'd be surprised if one prefers the stock pads to these when it comes down to only sound and I can't see comfort being much of an issue. Plus, remember that lawton's pads reduce leakage too.

 

 

post #168 of 182

not very treble sensitive here, but for long study/work sessions I would love something less fatiguing - will definitely get these pads then. tongue.gif

great answer! thanks a lot!

post #169 of 182

Yes - thanks for the very detailed thoughts, much appreciated!
 

post #170 of 182

Hi guys,

 

Between the D2000 and D7000, which one is better for modding from lawton with pad and wodden cup?

And does changing the cup easily enough that I could do myself?


Thank you.

post #171 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnottj View Post


Hi, you've had these pads for a while now, would you still regard them as a worthwhile upgrade for your D2000s?

 

Any further thoughts appreciated!

 

I am still enjoying all of the modifications made to my D2ks.  I still think the angle pads changed them the most though.  I am sure you have heard all of the impressions, and I really don't have anything to add (but will continue anyway).  The soundstage is more coherant and the sound sig is slightly changed due to the distance from your ears.  The sound becomes a little more balanced.  I really don't know how to describe it, but I liked it.  I heard more detail after the pad changes.  The next thing that makes a difference in the sound is the damping.  That really helps to tame the bass and make it more controlled and less bloated.

 

I guess the one thing I can really add about the pads is this:

I used to use a crossfeed filter on my amp when I played Skyrim because when someone was standing right next to me, on my right for example, I only heard them speak out of my right ear.  This isn't how you hear someone right next to you.  You would hear sound out of both ears, just much stronger from the right.  Without crossfeed I really couldn't stand how the sounds were placed.  However, the angle pads eliminated my desire to hit the crossfeed switch.  They make it seem more like the sound is coming from where it is supposed to rather than totally left/totally right.

 

I hope my ramblings help someone!

post #172 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantScareMe View Post

 

 

2) Physical

-Comfort is good enough. It's a step down from the original denon pads, no matter how you look at it. It's just that it's less plush, cushy and so less comfortable. For me I did find the stock d7k to be a bit loose and an increase in clamping force is well welcomed BUT the firmness of the pads mean for an overall less comfortable experience. Don't get me wrong- with lawton pads the denon d7000 is a very comfortable headphone. If it wasn't I wouldn't have it on my head right now.

One can upon recieval of lawton pads prior to installation massage them to break them in a bit. Just like for one/two hours gently massage them with your thumb or something to soften out some of the stiffness in the leather/filling. On a last point, these pads weigh around 20grams more than the original, so it brings up the weight of these 2012 d7000's to around 345 grams or so. No that wasn't the last point here- this is; yep they reduce sweat compared to the originals but by not as much too much as the stock are pretty good in this regard regardless of what material they actually are (btw these d

 

 

 

Comfort a step down?  Do the D7ks have different stock pads than D5ks?  My Lawtons are substantially thicker than the stock pads of D5k.  The stock pads were quite thin, and my ear hit the grille inside.  The Lawtons are thicker both in the front (critically important as a lot of weight was placed just in front of the ear with the stock pads for me) and behind (providing a proper seal in the back.)  I found the result far more comfortable, though I'm one of the few that actually found the stock pads very uncomfortable. 

post #173 of 182

I had the d5k's for only a short time. Definitely though the pads are different to the d2k's. Well to be precise, the 2012 d7k's pads are different to the 2011 d2k ones, where the former are slightly plushier, less firm and sweat less. Both when interchanged sound radically different on the same headphone mind you.

 

Maybe it's that your ear touching the grill that makes for the discomfort and yes, lawtons pads would alleviate that issue hence you favouring them on the comfort front. For me though my ears don't touch the grill foam at all with stock pads. Plenty deep enough as they are. It's basically the difference in firmness between the lawtons and the stock which make for one being more comfortable than the other. That's my view on it anyway

post #174 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantScareMe View Post

I had the d5k's for only a short time. Definitely though the pads are different to the d2k's. Well to be precise, the 2012 d7k's pads are different to the 2011 d2k ones, where the former are slightly plushier, less firm and sweat less. Both when interchanged sound radically different on the same headphone mind you.

 

Maybe it's that your ear touching the grill that makes for the discomfort and yes, lawtons pads would alleviate that issue hence you favouring them on the comfort front. For me though my ears don't touch the grill foam at all with stock pads. Plenty deep enough as they are. It's basically the difference in firmness between the lawtons and the stock which make for one being more comfortable than the other. That's my view on it anyway

 

Interesting.  For reference, the D5k pads that came with my 2012 D5ks were practically paper-thin.  Sure they were "squishy" but they squish down practically to the frame.  The front "band" of the pad (the part that goes in the front of the ear) has virtually no pad, and is as thin as a pencil, and all the clamp of the headphones, which is admittedly not much compared to most, goes in one thin line on the delicate bones in front of the ear.  It wasn't AKG-horrible, but it wasn't comfortable either.  The Lawtons, for me are far more comfortable, and sufficiently squishy.  Mine were presumably revision 1 if such a thing exists, which may be part of it.

post #175 of 182

Oh right. Compressing down to the frame? That didn't happen to me at all. In terms of surface area of pad contacting my skin surrounding the ear, both the lawtons and the stock are pretty much identical in all ways. Same facade. 

 

I know what you mean when you say that a pad exerting pressure at only specific small portions can be uncomfortable. Very true, but not with my denons!!

post #176 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by haejuk View Post

I am still enjoying all of the modifications made to my D2ks.  I still think the angle pads changed them the most though.  I am sure you have heard all of the impressions, and I really don't have anything to add (but will continue anyway).  The soundstage is more coherant and the sound sig is slightly changed due to the distance from your ears.  The sound becomes a little more balanced.  I really don't know how to describe it, but I liked it.  I heard more detail after the pad changes.  The next thing that makes a difference in the sound is the damping.  That really helps to tame the bass and make it more controlled and less bloated.

I guess the one thing I can really add about the pads is this:
I used to use a crossfeed filter on my amp when I played Skyrim because when someone was standing right next to me, on my right for example, I only heard them speak out of my right ear.  This isn't how you hear someone right next to you.  You would hear sound out of both ears, just much stronger from the right.  Without crossfeed I really couldn't stand how the sounds were placed.  However, the angle pads eliminated my desire to hit the crossfeed switch.  They make it seem more like the sound is coming from where it is supposed to rather than totally left/totally right.

I hope my ramblings help someone!

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated! Think I'm going to have to order some of these ...
post #177 of 182

my only issue with my d7ks is isolation.

i cannot say i have noticed the alleged harsh high end.

reading on here, it appears the ML pads reduce leakage but not isolation.

i must be dumb?

how do you have one without the other?

post #178 of 182

Are these pads identical? I currently have the original pads, but they are unevenly stuffed, so I'm considering the Angle Pads to improve the fit - drastically

Also, are they still avaidable through Mark's website, and how long do you guys reckon I'd have to wait?

Cheers!

post #179 of 182

I'd never buy anything that's real leather. No point in being so cruel to animals just for our own enjoyment (or any reason that isn't related to survival). Disgusting.

post #180 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantScareMe View Post

I should have given a review, or at least a mini review of what these pads do.

 

Actually on the website it shows 'version 2' pads as being the current ones. Mine were the early original version 1, although I doubt there is any difference. I might ask mark out of curiosity...

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnufsHeadphone View Post

Are these pads identical? I currently have the original pads, but they are unevenly stuffed, so I'm considering the Angle Pads to improve the fit - drastically

Also, are they still avaidable through Mark's website, and how long do you guys reckon I'd have to wait?

Cheers!

 

 

Current version of these pads are "version 1.2"

I messaged Mark to find out the difference between these and the originals, and for those wondering, his reply:

 

"Latest version has slightly different dimensions, and improved construction for more perfect matched pairs."
 
Also, they are available to order through the website, and they ship in 8-12 days from purchase/payment.

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