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V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 656

post #9826 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleki View Post

In regards to the HD598's, I'm aware that I was comparing apples and oranges here; but as I mentioned before, personally, I find the M-80 superior to the M-100's(specially when you consider their value at ~$150 less than the M-100). Following this thread, I was under the impression that the M-100 would be a substantial upgrade to the M-80; naturally, I was expecting the same sound, but refined(more or less). Instead, I find they sound closer to a modified LP(which, as I mentioned previously, dont sound half bad with proper damping work; particularly for the $75 bucks they fetched a few days ago). About the Sound-Stage claim on the box; I actually found that an unmodified LP has a bit more air to the sound, than the 100's (although I must re-iterate that the bass and midrange bleed is unbearable in that state).

 

Now, what gets me is, when I was making comments on the Beats Pro not being a bad buy at $160, I had many people on my tail, more or less calling me nuts in regards to sound. Mind you, this is going out from memory(as I have sold the BP's long ago), but like the M-100's(and quoting Steve Guttenberg), the BP's had very wooly bass. The midrange of the BP's were a little odd, as some vocals had a tendancy to sound contorted(likely tuned that way to avoid piercing treble); never the less, the overall sound of the headphones left me with the impression that this is what a smoothed out M-50 would sound like. It really wouldnt surprise me if the M-100's would have endured more flack in our community, had they been branded by Monster or Beats.

 

Comparing the M-50's to the M-100's and regarding their SQ, I feel they trade blows; the M-50's sounding more balanced, where the M-100's have strangely conditioned bass(tons of slam, but very dry sounding; however, more control), and smoother/less gritty treble. For the price-portability, I dont see it as bad value, but I'd readily pick the M-80's, or DT1350 before taking another look at the M-100's. My main complaint about their credit to portability for me is their rather poor low-mid frequency isolation. In the end, I still find myself raising the volume in noisy environments, like coffee shops, train stations, and even planes. Comparatively, I find its isolation to be roughly on par with a well seated M-80.

 

In closing, I felt the comparison between the M-100 and HD598 was just, to point out where they stand in respect to fidelity. I cant give it points for their ability to reproduce a naturally sounding tone, I cant give them points for having authentic definition/timbre between instruments, and I definitely cant give them any points for sound stage or imaging. However, what I feel we're left with is a damn good sounding genre specific headphone. If you're looking for energy and thump for mindless listening sessions, then these will do you well; synthetically mastered headphones, for today's digitally synthesized recordings.

 

Your first point is kind of what I was getting at.  I don't think that it's fair for people to be reviewing the M-100 based on what they thought the hype indicated the cans would be or what they wish had been developed rather than what the headphone is.  That's like me taking a pair of HD-598's on an airplane and then writing a review about how horrible the headphones are because I couldn't even hear my music, but the guy next to me could.  if you want neutral cans that are open backed for the widest possible soundstage then don't say that a headphone not even in the same category is crap because it doesn't meet those needs, just like I wouldn't call the HD-598's lo-fi because I can't use them on an airplane or while my kids are running around the house screaming.

 

I am not familiar with people jumping on you for beats pro at $160, but that hasn't been my experience on this forum.  I have ready many folks say that of the Beats line, the Pro's aren't bad, but that they aren't worth the $400 (or more) price tag, but have told folks they got a good deal on some used sets sub $200.  I have not, however, seen anyone say the Pro's are on par with the M-100s sound wise.

 

Lastly, on your points -- They aren't meant to be neutral sound reproduction, and the only reason you can't give them soundstage points is because you keep comparing them to open headphones.  In a side by side comparison everyone I have let try the M-80s and M-100s immediately mentioned how much the soundstage was improved between the two, and the M-100s are considered to have a reasonable soundstage for what they are.  We will agree to disagree regarding some of the timbre/separation as that's not my experience for the music I listen to, but I can see where some genre's that might be an issue. 

 

Don't get me wrong - the M-100s aren't for everyone and I don't think that everyone should like the way they sound etc...  I am the first to tell people if they want a reference headphone for use at their desk at home then to look elsewhere.  However, I think it's unfair to say that they are bad headphones or "lo-fi" because they don't meet your needs.  That's actually a common theme I am seeing too.  Across nearly all of the reviews I have read the most positive ones are those that are in the context of the intent of the headphone whereas the negative reviews are people that think V-MODA should have made something else. 

post #9827 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnio View Post

 

Your first point is kind of what I was getting at.  I don't think that it's fair for people to be reviewing the M-100 based on what they thought the hype indicated the cans would be or what they wish had been developed rather than what the headphone is.  That's like me taking a pair of HD-598's on an airplane and then writing a review about how horrible the headphones are because I couldn't even hear my music, but the guy next to me could.  if you want neutral cans that are open backed for the widest possible soundstage then don't say that a headphone not even in the same category is crap because it doesn't meet those needs, just like I wouldn't call the HD-598's lo-fi because I can't use them on an airplane or while my kids are running around the house screaming.

 

I am not familiar with people jumping on you for beats pro at $160, but that hasn't been my experience on this forum.  I have ready many folks say that of the Beats line, the Pro's aren't bad, but that they aren't worth the $400 (or more) price tag, but have told folks they got a good deal on some used sets sub $200.  I have not, however, seen anyone say the Pro's are on par with the M-100s sound wise.

 

Lastly, on your points -- They aren't meant to be neutral sound reproduction, and the only reason you can't give them soundstage points is because you keep comparing them to open headphones.  In a side by side comparison everyone I have let try the M-80s and M-100s immediately mentioned how much the soundstage was improved between the two, and the M-100s are considered to have a reasonable soundstage for what they are.  We will agree to disagree regarding some of the timbre/separation as that's not my experience for the music I listen to, but I can see where some genre's that might be an issue. 

 

Don't get me wrong - the M-100s aren't for everyone and I don't think that everyone should like the way they sound etc...  I am the first to tell people if they want a reference headphone for use at their desk at home then to look elsewhere.  However, I think it's unfair to say that they are bad headphones or "lo-fi" because they don't meet your needs.  That's actually a common theme I am seeing too.  Across nearly all of the reviews I have read the most positive ones are those that are in the context of the intent of the headphone whereas the negative reviews are people that think V-MODA should have made something else. 

Those are good points too. XD

 

I think the main problem for me with the M-100 is that they were marketed with the term "audiophile". Looking at Facebook comments about the M-100, people are freaking stoked to get an "audiophile"-sounding 'can that looks good...

That's where the problem is for me. They don't have the "audiophile" sound that people are thinking it has. As people say, these are not reference headphones and are more for a fun musical experience. There's a huge difference between what a person wants from a hyped product and what the hyped product actually delivers, and I think a lot of people are excited for what they expect from a hyped product.

I bought into the hype, and expected a lot out of the M-100 from what I experienced with the M-80. In my video review unboxing (what I was expecting the M-100 to be), within the first 40 seconds, I say: "for those of you who don't know what the M-100 is, it's basically a headphone that was made with the collaboration of various audiophiles as well as DJ's. So, this is for all of you audiophiles out there". Well about that....

 

Again, I'm not totally bashing on the M-100. I think the M-100's are a great-sounding can, especially for its price and as long as you listen to more modern music. But marketing it with "audiophile" can be a misconception, as evident by people's expectations here, and elsewhere.


Edited by miceblue - 11/29/12 at 5:57pm
post #9828 of 21161

I think a lot of people might be confusing the "audiophile" for meaning not muffly sounding like Beats Solo. Yeah I said it! I HATE BEATS SOLOS!!!!! I has one that I got for free and even my 5th grade cousin preferred the sound of my M-80 versus those nasty Solos.

post #9829 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnio View Post

 

Your first point is kind of what I was getting at. I don't think that it's fair for people to be reviewing the M-100 based on what they thought the hype indicated the cans would be or what they wish had been developed rather than what the headphone is. That's like me taking a pair of HD-598's on an airplane and then writing a review about how horrible the headphones are because I couldn't even hear my music, but the guy next to me could. if you want neutral cans that are open backed for the widest possible soundstage then don't say that a headphone not even in the same category is crap because it doesn't meet those needs, just like I wouldn't call the HD-598's lo-fi because I can't use them on an airplane or while my kids are running around the house screaming.

 

I am not familiar with people jumping on you for beats pro at $160, but that hasn't been my experience on this forum. I have ready many folks say that of the Beats line, the Pro's aren't bad, but that they aren't worth the $400 (or more) price tag, but have told folks they got a good deal on some used sets sub $200. I have not, however, seen anyone say the Pro's are on par with the M-100s sound wise.

 

Lastly, on your points -- They aren't meant to be neutral sound reproduction, and the only reason you can't give them soundstage points is because you keep comparing them to open headphones. In a side by side comparison everyone I have let try the M-80s and M-100s immediately mentioned how much the soundstage was improved between the two, and the M-100s are considered to have a reasonable soundstage for what they are. We will agree to disagree regarding some of the timbre/separation as that's not my experience for the music I listen to, but I can see where some genre's that might be an issue.

 

Don't get me wrong - the M-100s aren't for everyone and I don't think that everyone should like the way they sound etc... I am the first to tell people if they want a reference headphone for use at their desk at home then to look elsewhere. However, I think it's unfair to say that they are bad headphones or "lo-fi" because they don't meet your needs. That's actually a common theme I am seeing too. Across nearly all of the reviews I have read the most positive ones are those that are in the context of the intent of the headphone whereas the negative reviews are people that think V-MODA should have made something else.

Perhaps we arent seeing eye to eye here. Fidelity to me is purely SQ; it doesnt have anything to do with convenience or pairing under varying circumstances. That said, considering it's a portable headphone, I do have a problem with the quality of isolation. I did also mention that I found the LP's, despite it's rediculous bass boost, to have an airier sound, resulting in more coherent directional cues. ←Again, this was one of the biggest letdowns, considering it is a widely promoted bullet point. To me, they have a very synthetic sound stage, very much like the M-50.

 

I'll give you one for the sound-stage mention between the HD598 and M-100.. Although to back up my point, I'll compare directly to another closed can.. The Brainwavz HM5's easily trump the M-100's in both sound stage, and isolation. Thats not to say that its a substantially better 'phone, as it does hit a few of sour notes with me; but it does prove that imaging and sound stage can exist in closed headphones. Also, considering a Jaycar clone runs $70 shipped, and HM5's can be had routinely for $100, they are a bargain headphone if you are looking for isolation and something easy to drive(although I dont think I could ever muster up the courage to take them out of the house). Again, I was mislead by the "collosal sound stage" claim; since, having heard and owned a myriad closed cans, "colossal sound stage" is the last thing to come to mind when listening to the M-100. Going back, I still beleive it isnt impossible to get a natural tone out of closed headphones, nor the air and width of an open headset..

 

Finally, being an avid fan of the M-80, and closely following this thread since February, many of us were lead to beleive that the M-100's retained the M-80 "DNA", while offering improvements.. I really was expecting refinements, not elevated bass presence with recessed mids (personally, I would have been perfectly happy with them slightly touching up the treble, and tightening the low end; I thought the bass already had plenty of delivery in the M-80).

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but I feel a lot of us who were gearing up for the release were expecting M-80 class sound(as it has been mentioned several times throughout its development); the critical reviews may have just been the very users who were anticipating in owning a proper successor to the M-80's. Instead, we received a different breed of sound.

As a member previously stated(and I agree whole heartedly), these cans would make more sense if they followed the LP lineage, and were marketed as the LP3's.

 

PS: I never said they were bad headphones, they just didnt meet my expectationswink.gif


Edited by aleki - 11/29/12 at 7:42pm
post #9830 of 21161
By modern music you guys mean like hip hop and rap and stuff like that
post #9831 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleki View Post

Perhaps we arent seeing eye to eye here. Fidelity to me is purely SQ; it doesnt have anything to do with convenience or pairing under varying circumstances. That said, considering it's a portable headphone, I do have a problem with the quality of isolation. I did also mention that I found the LP's, despite it's rediculous bass boost, to have an airier sound, resulting in more coherent directional cues. ←Again, this was one of the biggest letdowns, considering it is a widely promoted bullet point. To me, they have a very synthetic sound stage, very much like the M-50.

Hopefully my posts are coming off as combative, and I don't think we have to see eye to eye...as a matter of fact, I am sure we don't!  You're absolutely right though, for me fidelity is SQ presented to the user in the situation where the headphones are used.  I have posted this earlier, and it's probably going to earn me a head-fi scarlet letter, but whatever....My personal opinion is that hi-fi is the end to end solution that will give you the best sounding music possible, source to ears...Earlier in this thread it was posted that to get true hi-fi you need to divorce yourself of the music that you enjoy and go strictly for the most neutral recordings and pair those with the most neutral gear.  I contend that an approach (possibly considered modiofile as mentioned by others) equally as valid is to pair your gear to the music you like in order to obtain the best possible experience.  As far as the soundstage, your are absolutely welcome to your opinion and I respect it, but many of us disagree and there are other professional reviewers who share my opinion that the soundstage is wonderful for a closed can (in all fairness there are others who hate the cans and everything about them as well)  Also, while you state that there are headphones out there that do each of the individual things you like, you haven't named your "flagship" closed can that offers all of the bass, forward mids, smooth highs, high isolation, and large soundstage in one package.  In everything there are design trade-offs, so while it is possible to get each element near perfect it is impossible to get them all together in a single package...otherwise everyone on this forum would own one singular pair of headphones.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aleki View Post
Finally, being an avid fan of the M-80, and closely following this thread since February, many of us were lead to beleive that the M-100's retained the M-80 "DNA", while offering improvements.. I really was expecting refinements, not elevated bass presence with recessed mids (personally, I would have been perfectly happy with them slightly touching up the treble, and tightening the low end; I thought the bass already had plenty of delivery in the M-80).

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but I feel a lot of us who were gearing up for the release were expecting M-80 class sound(as it has been mentioned several times throughout its development); the neutral-negative reviews may have just been the very users who were anticipating in owning a proper successor to the M-80's. Instead, we received a different breed of sound.

As a member previously stated(and I agree whole heartedly), these cans would make more sense if they followed the LP lineage, and were marketed as the LP3's.

 

PS: I never said they were bad headphones, they just didnt meet my expectationswink.gif

 

I get your point fully here, but you have to also recognize that there are many that said the M-80 was a little lacking in bass for a portable can (something that many of the people I have done side by side comparisons mention).  While this may take it out of the "hi-fi" realm, it was another often requested feature.

 

I don't think you're stepping on toes, but I contend (as Tyll has said) that there is plenty of room for a portable reference can (the M-80s) and a "fun" can in the same vendors line-up.  I would offer up that some of what you don't like about the M-100 turns out to be the physics behind offering what many wanted improved over the M-80 and what had to go to create the headphones. 

 

for your last point - I took low-fi, not worth the money, and comparisons to $50 cans to be an argument for bad headphones....my mistake.

post #9832 of 21161
Hey I just pre ordered a pair of matte black M-100's tonight and I have been using the LP2's that I love for almost a year. Do you guys think I will regret my purchase or will I be happy with it based on your experiences with the M-100?
post #9833 of 21161

Yeah, I feel you. I've been debating between the Momentum and M-100 but decided to stick with the latter. I've been enjoying my HE-500 and HD800 for studio use for a while but needed a replacement for HFi-780 for casual/fun cans which I don't mind tossing around. Judging from the experiences provided for the VTF-100, I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking for the price; I just want an exciting, colorful signature for the genres that it excels at. 

post #9834 of 21161

Long post, catch the tl;dr at the bottom if you don't feel like reading.

 

I suppose on Head-fi, there is a constant expectation for fidelity, which is of course the reason why something like a general rapper can or Beats is likely to be offensive. And yes, fidelity is important of course. There's no sense listening to a track that an artist really poured their heart into unless you get most of the details. But at some level, the music needs to be more than a technically impressive combination of sound waves. It needs to get people moving, and as with every other art form, it needs to connect at some level with a person. For me, I was never really expecting something that was a major leaguer in terms of the most accurate presentation. My impression of the demand from people in these threads is that they wanted more bass and more treble, which for something that is as fairly neutral as the M-80's would of course cause some coloration and some inaccuracies. And it delivered that. And I'm fine with that. Maybe it's the idea that everyone had that it'd be a more neutral and refined M-80, but refinement can go different ways, and when you specialize the tuning in a certain direction, there will be people that don't prefer the sound. But for me, each headphone has a different coloring, a different set of clothes that are more appropriate for different occasions. Choosing when to wear them depends on what event is going on. Should the M-100's have been neutral like the M-80? A friend of mine and I do believe that the M-100 does retain that M-80 DNA, but the evolution was not what was expected from forum goers, which is what threw them off guard. Our opinion is essentially that the direction of refinement and evolution is perfectly fine, and for quite a bit of music, the M-100 really is an improvement compared to the M-80's.

 

Portability factors are also a bit subjective. Some people will prefer more isolation such that it's a private listening thing. For me, I've been wearing grados in public and my bigger concern is that leakage is minimal. But yes, isolation is not one of the M-100's strong points. But does a headphone like the M-100 necessitate a particularly strong isolation? For me, I wouldn't say so, at least not with the genres that it rocks with. In contrast, I highly appreciated my DT1350's for their considerably excellent isolation for the tracks that I preferred them for, Jazz, classical, bossa nova, tracks that really shine with a more analytical and neutral approach in a more private and intimate session. Choices in headphones should align not with what is the most accurate but what is the correct application. You shouldn't use a bear trap to hunt a rabbit, and in all honesty the DT1350's were dreadfully plain in their presentation of EDM and pop, among others. And yes, pending you have the cash, multiple portables is fine.

 

I think that if these cans were branded Beats, yes, they would get more flack. But it goes beyond the stigma that "Beats Suck!" There's another sort of pride we have in our hobby that we as headphone enthusiasts (a term I'd prefer to audiophiles, and probably something I'd describe myself more as at the very least), we can discern between a quality sound produced by a headphone and a more headphone can. People who've used Beats in my experience tend to believe the following things that grind our gears:

1) They're among the best headphones you can get

2) They're among the most accurate headphones around

3) Sound engineers and studio mixers use them

And here as well, a lot of people are under the impression that the M-100's would also be a very accurate tuning, perhaps being driven by the rumor mill. But I had a discussion with my friend, and he thought, well it is Val, and his experience is in a more electronically oriented genres. I don't particularly recall any statement of Val's that the M-100's would be neutral, but perhaps I missed a step. In any case, the hype for me was finding something that was a bit more colored while offering something that sacrificed little in detail or midrange recession. With regards to the HD598, the sound is indeed quite excellent for what should be expected of them, an open air headphone with a more balanced approach. I wouldn't expect them to have thumping bass that reverberates throughout my body, and the M-100's were a bit misinterpreted perhaps to be V-Moda's fullsize option for neutral sound.

 

Is it a bit of a stretch to call these audiophile-grade cans? A bit, I won't dispute that. The soundstage? Not nearly colossal enough for me to be under the shadow of it. They're not the best for representing the naked music. But as someone who's not particularly fixed to a single location, these do well to have me really enjoy my music and appreciate how it moves me. The coloring is excellent, although those with expectations of a neutral tilt will end up disappointed. In spite of that, It gives a reasonably accurate and detailed experience with some shading. It's not for everyone and it's not for every genre, but for the sound signature for me, it's perfectly imbalanced.

 

tl;dr From a pragmatic perspective, the M-100's qualities are right for the purpose it serves, just as other headphones offer a different set of tools for a different set of conditions.


Edited by robble - 11/30/12 at 2:38am
post #9835 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleki View Post

Finally, being an avid fan of the M-80, and closely following this thread since February, many of us were lead to beleive that the M-100's retained the M-80 "DNA", while offering improvements.. I really was expecting refinements, not elevated bass presence with recessed mids (personally, I would have been perfectly happy with them slightly touching up the treble, and tightening the low end; I thought the bass already had plenty of delivery in the M-80).

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but I feel a lot of us who were gearing up for the release were expecting M-80 class sound(as it has been mentioned several times throughout its development); the critical reviews may have just been the very users who were anticipating in owning a proper successor to the M-80's. Instead, we received a different breed of sound.

As a member previously stated(and I agree whole heartedly), these cans would make more sense if they followed the LP lineage, and were marketed as the LP3's.

 

I do feel the same: the discussion upfront led me to believe, the M-100 would refine the M-80s sound signature. Which obviously is not the case. Which in turn led to me canceling my preorder and looking elsewhere.

 

From what I read about the M-100s sound I don't see the 'audiophile' attribute often used as justifiable. No big deal, there are lots of alternatives...

post #9836 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthUnnamed View Post

I don't even know what to get anymore, these or the he-400's. 2 Completely different headphones, for different uses, with different sound signatures. I'll probably get both eventually, but i need to know what to get first. The he-400's excel with pretty much any genre, but due to the fact that i haven't seen a single deal on it (hifiman doesn't like people selling their products for cheaper than the original price) while the v moda's are a bit cheaper, and i can use them both at home and on the go make them pretty appealing. He-400's obviously sound better, but aren't portable at all, and the Fiio e17 doesn't work with the Galaxy s3 (i plan on getting the e17, already have a GS3) makes it pretty much impossible to use in a portable fashion. But i have until sunday to decide, since that's when the whole Faders + Custom shields + free shipping thing ends with the v-moda's


If portability is your priority, I would start with the M-100.  Any headphone can be nitpicked and over-analyzed to death as would be expected here, but the bottom line is the M-100 works well as a solid-performing portable with a well-executed bass emphasis, provides an enjoyable, fun listening experience for multiple genres and is an excellent value.

post #9837 of 21161

Has anybody heard the Audio Technica CKS77 (IEM) from reviews it seems as though the general sound sig may be similar...like a Denon D2000 

 

At the moment I have the CKS77 and Beyer DT770 Pro 80 and trying to decide if the M100 will be a significant step up over these...Im a broke student so £270 is a HUGE amount for me to spend on headphones!

 

Cheers 

post #9838 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post


If portability is your priority, I would start with the M-100.  Any headphone can be nitpicked and over-analyzed to death as would be expected here, but the bottom line is the M-100 works well as a solid-performing portable with a well-executed bass emphasis, provides an enjoyable, fun listening experience for multiple genres and is an excellent value.

Yeah, at this point i think most headphones are better than the soundmagic e10's i'm using now...

post #9839 of 21161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post


If portability is your priority, I would start with the M-100.  Any headphone can be nitpicked and over-analyzed to death as would be expected here, but the bottom line is the M-100 works well as a solid-performing portable with a well-executed bass emphasis, provides an enjoyable, fun listening experience for multiple genres and is an excellent value.

I think something that seems to be lost a bit here and there with the nuances and the gripes that it's not more balanced is that the headphones really have been extremely well received. In spite of its imperfections, between OnizukaJP, Anakchan and how he and his friends thought the M-100's to be the best among the new crop of headphones along with the reception at RMAJ, the M-100's have received a really warm reception from those who have heard it.

post #9840 of 21161
I have the lp's do you guys think I will regret the purchase of the m-100?
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