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post #9601 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by musical-kage View Post


I really do appreciate your opinion Craigster as its really what I want to find the M-100's do for me too. I just don't want a headphone that has been purely built for bass, which is how some reviews have described it.

It's not my main focus, and is why I didn't opt for an LP or LP2 when I read about them, and aimed straight towards the more audiophile focused M-80's, but if the M-100's is a more LP3 type signature then...

I wouldn't say it's purely built for bass.  But it's definitely aimed for electronic music.  The signature is pretty much perfect for it.

post #9602 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBomb77766 View Post

I wouldn't say it's purely built for bass.  But it's definitely aimed for electronic music.  The signature is pretty much perfect for it.

Exactly, and I don't listen to electronic all the time. I do listen to it a lot of the time, but its not all I'm interested in. I really wanted one (especially for that price) that would do everything equally well, and that is what I thought the M-100 would be after looking at inital reviews. It seems closer to the time of release, we've been getting more negative ones, after I've already gone for it, ha.

post #9603 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by musical-kage View Post

Exactly, and I don't listen to electronic all the time. I do listen to it a lot of the time, but its not all I'm interested in. I really wanted one (especially for that price) that would do everything equally well, and that is what I thought the M-100 would be after looking at inital reviews. It seems closer to the time of release, we've been getting more negative ones, after I've already gone for it, ha.

 

Just a question, what negative reviews have there been besides the one posted to Headfonia?


Edited by Curly21029 - 11/19/12 at 6:27pm
post #9604 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly21029 View Post

 

Just a question, what other negative reviews have there been besides the one posted to Headfonia?

Some reviews on this thread that have been pointed out and inital reactions typed out, and Tyll's review didn't seem all that positive either.

I certainly don't, when I opt to buy a headphone think "It's got to have the most bass". I wouldn't catorgarise myself at all as a bass head.

 

As I said, I didn't want to opt for the LP1 and LP2 for this reason as I thought to myself "they are more bass than anything else, and its not what I'm looking for", until I read aboutt the M-80's and apparant M-100's being more audiophile grade.

 

If bass is punchy and tight and extended though, that is fine, as long as its not in favour of everything else in a mix.

I feel I need something very detailed, whilst excelling at all levels, bass, mids and treble, and initial reviews did make me think these would be perfect for me, as I wouldn't want a "neutral" headphone either.

For the price, I hope I have made the right decision.


Edited by musical-kage - 11/19/12 at 6:29pm
post #9605 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by musical-kage View Post

Some reviews on this thread that have been pointed out and inital reactions typed out, and Tyll's review didn't seem all that positive either.

I certainly don't, when I opt to buy a headphone think "It's got to have the most bass". I wouldn't catorgarise myself at all as a bass head.

 

As I said, I didn't want to opt for the LP1 and LP2 for this reason as I thought to myself "they are more bass than anything else, and its not what I'm looking for", until I read aboutt the M-80's and apparant M-100's being more audiophile grade.

 

If bass is punchy and tight and extended though, that is fine, as long as its not in favour of everything else in a mix.

I feel I need something very detailed, whilst excelling at all levels, bass, mids and treble, and initial reviews did make me think these would be perfect for me, as I wouldn't want a "neutral" headphone either.

For the price, I hope I have made the right decision.

You can always return them if you don't like them though.  I can't say the signature is for everyone.

post #9606 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by musical-kage View Post

Some reviews on this thread that have been pointed out and inital reactions typed out, and Tyll's review didn't seem all that positive either.

I certainly don't, when I opt to buy a headphone think "It's got to have the most bass". I wouldn't catorgarise myself at all as a bass head.

 

As I said, I didn't want to opt for the LP1 and LP2 for this reason as I thought to myself "they are more bass than anything else, and its not what I'm looking for", until I read aboutt the M-80's and apparant M-100's being more audiophile grade.

 

If bass is punchy and tight and extended though, that is fine, as long as its not in favour of everything else in a mix.

I feel I need something very detailed, whilst excelling at all levels, bass, mids and treble, and initial reviews did make me think these would be perfect for me, as I wouldn't want a "neutral" headphone either.

For the price, I hope I have made the right decision.

 

Nothing tells the whole story like your own ears.  The 60 day trial is there for your benefit, so leverage it if you have to.

 

Personally, I thought Tyll's review was VERY positive. (didn't he give it his "Stuff we Like" stamp of approval?)  As for the way that I heard the bass, as I had previously written I thought that it only bled slightly into the midrange when ran directly from my Android.  Out of the DragonFly, I detected none.  I wouldn't say that it comes at the expense of the rest of the spectrum but it is pronounced and I would recommend anchoring it by a decent source.  Extension, punch, and texture are there.  However, I do not have any experience with the other headphones you've mentioned and therefore have no idea how the M-100 will perform in comparison.  You may very well hear them to the "very detailed" standard that you'd like, but to my ears they're averagely detailed.  They do a lot right -- far more than they do wrong in my estimation.  Actually, nothing feels "wrong" about the M-100 at all.  All colorations seem deliberate making them an ideal can for many. (and, as it was largely crowdsourced, it should be)

 

Hype is a two-way street.  Positive or negative, scrutinize the details of a writeup and take away from it what you can without falling into the too-common pitfall of an emotional investment. (save that for the actual listening experience ~ because your kit should allow you to sufficiently connect with your music)

post #9607 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly21029 View Post

 

Nothing tells the whole story like your own ears.  The 60 day trial is there for your benefit, so leverage it if you have to.

 

Personally, I thought Tyll's review was VERY positive. (didn't he give it his "Stuff we Like" stamp of approval?)  As for the way that I heard the bass, as I had previously written I thought that it only bled slightly into the midrange when ran directly from my Android.  Out of the DragonFly, I detected none.  I wouldn't say that it comes at the expense of the rest of the spectrum but it is pronounced and I would recommend anchoring it by a decent source.  Extension, punch, and texture are there.  However, I do not have any experience with the other headphones you've mentioned and therefore have no idea how the M-100 will perform in comparison.  You may very well hear them to the "very detailed" standard that you'd like, but to my ears they're averagely detailed.  They do a lot right -- far more than they do wrong in my estimation.  Actually, nothing feels "wrong" about the M-100 at all.  All colorations seem deliberate making them an ideal can for many. (and, as it was largely crowdsourced, it should be)

 

Hype is a two-way street.  Positive or negative, scrutinize the details of a writeup and take away from it what you can without falling into the too-common pitfall of an emotional investment. (save that for the actual listening experience ~ because your kit should allow you to sufficiently connect with your music)

I'm pretty sure he actually gave it the "wall of fame" as the best basshead headphones.

post #9608 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBomb77766 View Post

I'm pretty sure he actually gave it the "wall of fame" as the best basshead headphones.

 

All the better!  I stand corrected.

post #9609 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by musical-kage View Post

I may actually cancel my pre-order and go for the M-80's.

I've heard too many negative comments on the M-100's now to actually recommend them.

 

Since I'm without headphones now, I want a good pair now really.

 

The M-80's apart from the treble issue that has been mentioned seem to be better for audiophile grade headphones than the M-100's will ever be.

Is that a correct assumption to make?

Or should I just wait and make my own decision once I listen to them, and send them back and get the M-80's if I find they are too bass heavy?

 

700

 

Neither the M-80 nor the M-100 is an audiophile grade headphone....my God, whats with everyone on this thread and the word audiophile?

 

@musical-kage

 

Neither headphone you mentioned is an audiophile headphone. An audiophile headphone has absolutely no embellishment in it's sound signature and will sound as flat as possible. Throw the word audiophile out the window for now and just read on and try to understand.

 


An audiophile grade headphone is the type of headphone that's classed as a monitor grade headphone. A monitor grade headphone is basically a headphone that's tuned flat. The reason it's tuned flat is because sound engineers use it to monitor when they're mixing. If they want to eq the bass up 4 db's it's by far easier to do that and hear how it sounds on a neutral headphone then on a headphone that's overly bassy. If for example a sound engineer was mixing music on a bassy headphone that was already boosted 6 db's in the lows and added another 4 on top of that the result would be a CD with lows that sounded like mud on a stereo system. Also a flat (that's what neutral means, flat) tuned headphone is known for being generally detailed generally speaking of coarse. The reason detail is important when mixing in the studio is when the sound engineer is eqing the music to where he wants it he has to monitor the frequencies to insure those frequencies aren't tripping over one another. what i mean by tripping over one another is distortion or bleed. A flat headphone will show the sound engineer what needs to be cleaned up when he's mixing. for example if he's eqs the bass up 5 db you better believe he's going to playing close attention to the lower mids to make sure the upper bass isn't bleeding into the lower mids and blurring the lower notes in the vocals. Since we're on the subject of mids and just so everyone reading this thread knows the mids is where the music lives and breaths. Where am I going with this mid talk? Where I'm going is a neutral headphone is very very important when you're playing with the mids. Ask any audio pro out there who earns his bread and butter in the music studio and he/she will tell you it's the mids that's always the focus and the lows and highs fall into place if the mids are done right during the mixing process.

 

With that first part out of the way time to get something else out of the way. The word audiophile is a very misused word especially on these forums. An audiophile isn't a music nut or a collector of music. What an audiophile is is a type of geek, specifically he's an audio gear geek. As far as a true audiophile is concerned his sole care in the hobby is to try and find the most capable most neutral sounding gear he can get his hands on and mate it with the absolute best recorded music that's available on the market. Artists like Taylor Swift, Madonna, Iron Maiden, Depeche Mode, etc etc are considered garbage in the eyes of an audiophile. He doesn't give a crap about the top 40 or the most extreme sounding metal band or the most trippy trance song. An audiophile doesn't subscribe to any genre in particular his/her only care is finding music whatever it might be which is masterfully recorded. The idea behind it all is to play that music on the gear he/she owns and push it to it's maximum potential. The music itself is only a secondary element and the main idea is to see what can be squeezed out of the gear itself.

 

Next up, let's have a very blunt discussion about neutral. I like neutral sounding headphones. So much so I've taken steps and spent some big bones on commissioning a mod of a T50rp into a Paradox which from what I've read measures almost completely flat. For those interested who don't have the extra bones to throw around on a Paradox you might also want to look into the Mad Dogs. From what I understand they're pretty good although supposedly not on the same level of a Paradox. Here's the thing though, I can guarantee that if I was to get everyone on this thread into a room together and let him/her have a listen on a Mad Dog or a Paradox over half of the people, if not 75%, would remove those headphones and the first thing that would come out of their mouths would be how come there's no bass. A neutral headphone doesn't go doof doof doof in the bass like a bassy headphone does unless the music demands it. Guess what, those trance, hip hop, pop rock songs the mainstream bopper likes because of the doof doof bass when they were first being mixed they weren't mixed to go doof doof doof in the lows. It's the overly bassy headphones that most people bought from BestBuy that were tuned to go doof doof doof not the music.

 

With that out of the way lets now breach the topic of an analytical sounding headphone. A AKG Q701 is considered an analytical. The Sennheiser HD800 and Bayerdynamic T1 are other examples of analytical headphones. A STAX Omega II, the king of the headphone world by the way, is a neutral with a upper treble tilt that makes it boarder on analytical. The same can be said for the Somy MDR EX 600 and 1000 IEM's. This type of gear don't exaclt play well with modern recorded music due to how music has been overly eqed in the recording studio and most of the time this type of gear will sound quite harsh when playing most modern music. So why in the world would anyone want an analytical sounding headphone which can sound overly harsh, detail retrieval. An analytical is another type of coloration that a treble head (read detail fanatic) craves not unlike the basshead craves bass slam. An analytical is NOT a neutral no more then a bassy headphone is a neutral. Over the last ittle while I've noticed people on other threads describing certain gear as neutral because it's overly detailed which could not be further from the truth. A neutral will only present the detail that's present in the music while an analytical will present micro detail ( read fake detail) due to it's sound sig being overly leaned out. An analytical headphone will always have an anlaytical edge to it's sound while a well done neutral is a chameleon and can sound overly warm or overly analytical. what it sounds like depends completely on the music being played and how it was mixed in the recording studio and whether the artist went for a warmer sound to his music or a more crisper more aggressive sound.

 

(sigh) Almost finished typing...

 

To answer your question, the M 80 and M 100 are both good sound headphones and I own them both. Neither of them sound like audiophile headphones and if you want to know what I would class them as I would class them as upper tier mainstream audio gear. The M 80 is a smoother more fluid sound signature with very rolled off highs and a slight boost in the lows. Extension on both ends is decent but not great and there is a little bass bleed into the lower mids although not much. The M 100 is the more capable headphone of the two and has more detail in it's sig, better mid transition in the highs and lows more extension in the highs and lows and far more bass in the lows that doesn't bleed into the lower mids. the decision is yours which one you buy but seriously, you'll never know which headphone works for you until you try it yourself. If you're really that worried about it I say wait until the M 100 is on display on the store shelves and try it out before you buy. That's the only 100% way of knowing if it will work for you.


@ my fellow thread boppers

 

Guys, I know I'm coming across as a bit of a jerk with this post but come on. It's supposed to be about the music not the gear. Just because a headphone isn't audiophile grade doesn't mean it's a bad headphone it just means it's a colored headphone. If it's done right the coloration can sound quite nice. If it's done wrong it'll sound like garbage ( read Beats). That's why i like V-MODA's new line of headphones so much the way Val has chosen to tune the frequencies is quite tasteful and fun sounding. In the end it's all supposed to be about having fun and enjoying the music, right?

post #9610 of 21232

DigitalFreak, I think what you're describing are studio monitor headphones and/or pretentious pricks.  If you ask me an "audiophile" is simply someone who is looking for the best sound for them.  They will spend what it takes for something they feel sounds great, whether it is the absolute most neutral gear or not.  On the other hand, an audio engineer will use studio monitors and needs the absolute most neutral gear ever.  You aren't gonna see any actual audio engineers use something like, say, a high-end Grado, even though those are considered "audiophile" grade.


I guess this is why V-Moda avoids using the word "audiophile" and uses their own word, "modiophile," since they try to make something that sounds great and has a signature more attuned to modern music, not something that's accurate and would be used in a studio (you would have to be an idiot to use anything from v-moda in a studio).

post #9611 of 21232

Excellent post DigitalFreak, when I ordered the M-100 I expected a fun can for more modern music and that's exactly what I got.

post #9612 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBomb77766 View Post

DigitalFreak, I think what you're describing are studio monitor headphones and/or pretentious pricks.  If you ask me an "audiophile" is simply someone who is looking for the best sound for them.  They will spend what it takes for something they feel sounds great, whether it is the absolute most neutral gear or not.  On the other hand, an audio engineer will use studio monitors and needs the absolute most neutral gear ever.  You aren't gonna see any actual audio engineers use something like, say, a high-end Grado, even though those are considered "audiophile" grade.


I guess this is why V-Moda avoids using the word "audiophile" and uses their own word, "modiophile," since they try to make something that sounds great and has a signature more attuned to modern music, not something that's accurate and would be used in a studio (you would have to be an idiot to use anything from v-moda in a studio).


LMAO!!!!!

 

Nice job on reading between the lines. To bad you're not in my city I'd be buying you a beer right now

 

700

post #9613 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

Neither the M-80 nor the M-100 is an audiophile grade headphone....my God, whats with everyone on this thread and the word audiophile?

 

@musical-kage

 

Neither headphone you mentioned is an audiophile headphone. An audiophile headphone has absolutely no embellishment in it's sound signature and will sound as flat as possible. Throw the word audiophile out the window for now and just read on and try to understand.

 


An audiophile grade headphone is the type of headphone that's classed as a monitor grade headphone. A monitor grade headphone is basically a headphone that's tuned flat. The reason it's tuned flat is because sound engineers use it to monitor when they're mixing. If they want to eq the bass up 4 db's it's by far easier to do that and hear how it sounds on a neutral headphone then on a headphone that's overly bassy. If for example a sound engineer was mixing music on a bassy headphone that was already boosted 6 db's in the lows and added another 4 on top of that the result would be a CD with lows that sounded like mud on a stereo system. Also a flat (that's what neutral means, flat) tuned headphone is known for being generally detailed generally speaking of coarse. The reason detail is important when mixing in the studio is when the sound engineer is eqing the music to where he wants it he has to monitor the frequencies to insure those frequencies aren't tripping over one another. what i mean by tripping over one another is distortion or bleed. A flat headphone will show the sound engineer what needs to be cleaned up when he's mixing. for example if he's eqs the bass up 5 db you better believe he's going to playing close attention to the lower mids to make sure the upper bass isn't bleeding into the lower mids and blurring the lower notes in the vocals. Since we're on the subject of mids and just so everyone reading this thread knows the mids is where the music lives and breaths. Where am I going with this mid talk? Where I'm going is a neutral headphone is very very important when you're playing with the mids. Ask any audio pro out there who earns his bread and butter in the music studio and he/she will tell you it's the mids that's always the focus and the lows and highs fall into place if the mids are done right during the mixing process.

 

With that first part out of the way time to get something else out of the way. The word audiophile is a very misused word especially on these forums. An audiophile isn't a music nut or a collector of music. What an audiophile is is a type of geek, specifically he's an audio gear geek. As far as a true audiophile is concerned his sole care in the hobby is to try and find the most capable most neutral sounding gear he can get his hands on and mate it with the absolute best recorded music that's available on the market. Artists like Taylor Swift, Madonna, Iron Maiden, Depeche Mode, etc etc are considered garbage in the eyes of an audiophile. He doesn't give a crap about the top 40 or the most extreme sounding metal band or the most trippy trance song. An audiophile doesn't subscribe to any genre in particular his/her only care is finding music whatever it might be which is masterfully recorded. The idea behind it all is to play that music on the gear he/she owns and push it to it's maximum potential. The music itself is only a secondary element and the main idea is to see what can be squeezed out of the gear itself.

 

Next up, let's have a very blunt discussion about neutral. I like neutral sounding headphones. So much so I've taken steps and spent some big bones on commissioning a mod of a T50rp into a Paradox which from what I've read measures almost completely flat. For those interested who don't have the extra bones to throw around on a Paradox you might also want to look into the Mad Dogs. From what I understand they're pretty good although supposedly not on the same level of a Paradox. Here's the thing though, I can guarantee that if I was to get everyone on this thread into a room together and let him/her have a listen on a Mad Dog or a Paradox over half of the people, if not 75%, would remove those headphones and the first thing that would come out of their mouths would be how come there's no bass. A neutral headphone doesn't go doof doof doof in the bass like a bassy headphone does unless the music demands it. Guess what, those trance, hip hop, pop rock songs the mainstream bopper likes because of the doof doof bass when they were first being mixed they weren't mixed to go doof doof doof in the lows. It's the overly bassy headphones that most people bought from BestBuy that were tuned to go doof doof doof not the music.

 

With that out of the way lets now breach the topic of an analytical sounding headphone. A AKG Q701 is considered an analytical. The Sennheiser HD800 and Bayerdynamic T1 are other examples of analytical headphones. A STAX Omega II, the king of the headphone world by the way, is a neutral with a upper treble tilt that makes it boarder on analytical. The same can be said for the Somy MDR EX 600 and 1000 IEM's. This type of gear don't exaclt play well with modern recorded music due to how music has been overly eqed in the recording studio and most of the time this type of gear will sound quite harsh when playing most modern music. So why in the world would anyone want an analytical sounding headphone which can sound overly harsh, detail retrieval. An analytical is another type of coloration that a treble head (read detail fanatic) craves not unlike the basshead craves bass slam. An analytical is NOT a neutral no more then a bassy headphone is a neutral. Over the last ittle while I've noticed people on other threads describing certain gear as neutral because it's overly detailed which could not be further from the truth. A neutral will only present the detail that's present in the music while an analytical will present micro detail ( read fake detail) due to it's sound sig being overly leaned out. An analytical headphone will always have an anlaytical edge to it's sound while a well done neutral is a chameleon and can sound overly warm or overly analytical. what it sounds like depends completely on the music being played and how it was mixed in the recording studio and whether the artist went for a warmer sound to his music or a more crisper more aggressive sound.

 

(sigh) Almost finished typing...

 

To answer your question, the M 80 and M 100 are both good sound headphones and I own them both. Neither of them sound like audiophile headphones and if you want to know what I would class them as I would class them as upper tier mainstream audio gear. The M 80 is a smoother more fluid sound signature with very rolled off highs and a slight boost in the lows. Extension on both ends is decent but not great and there is a little bass bleed into the lower mids although not much. The M 100 is the more capable headphone of the two and has more detail in it's sig, better mid transition in the highs and lows more extension in the highs and lows and far more bass in the lows that doesn't bleed into the lower mids. the decision is yours which one you buy but seriously, you'll never know which headphone works for you until you try it yourself. If you're really that worried about it I say wait until the M 100 is on display on the store shelves and try it out before you buy. That's the only 100% way of knowing if it will work for you.


@ my fellow thread boppers

 

Guys, I know I'm coming across as a bit of a jerk with this post but come on. It's supposed to be about the music not the gear. Just because a headphone isn't audiophile grade doesn't mean it's a bad headphone it just means it's a colored headphone. If it's done right the coloration can sound quite nice. If it's done wrong it'll sound like garbage ( read Beats). That's why i like V-MODA's new line of headphones so much the way Val has chosen to tune the frequencies is quite tasteful and fun sounding. In the end it's all supposed to be about having fun and enjoying the music, right?

 

 

So what exactly did you order for your paradoxes to make them completely flat? (or is the stock one completely flat?)

post #9614 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfireblade25 View Post

So what exactly did you order for your paradoxes to make them completely flat? (or is the stock one completely flat?)


If you look on the DIY threads you'll see the Fostex T50rp as well as some Grado's are considered the little darlings of the modder world. People have ripped them apart and modded them in various ways to get various different sound signatures depending on the mod. The T50rp drivers are very capable and you can have a lot of fun if you know how to play around with modding. I didn't mod them by the way. I commissioned someone to mod them for me and bought the stock Fostex T50rp a pair of leather cups and a cable and sent it all to him. As for what is done, nobody knows exactly what mods were applied to get the Paradox headphone except for the guy who created it. The guy who created the Paradox mod runs a business selling his Paradox headphone and understandably isn't telling anyone how he does it. The few people who have tried stealing the secret to his Paradox mod have failed because the cups are permanently sealed once the mods are applied and if someone tries to rip open the cups the mods are destroyed upon prying the cups open.


Edited by DigitalFreak - 11/19/12 at 9:09pm
post #9615 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post


If you look on the DIY threads you'll see the Fostex T50rp as well as some Grado's are considered the little darlings of the modder world. People have ripped them apart and modded them in various ways to get various different sound signatures depending on the mod. The T50rp drivers are very capable and you can have a lot of fun if you know how to play around with modding. I didn't mod them by the way. I commissioned someone to mod them for me and bought the stock Fostex T50rp a pair of leather cups and a cable and sent it all to him. As for what is done, nobody knows exactly what mods were applied to get the Paradox headphone except for the guy who created it. The guy who created the Paradox mod runs a business selling his Paradox headphone and understandably isn't telling anyone how he does it. The few people who have tried stealing the secret to his Paradox mod have failed because the cups are permanently sealed once the mods are applied and if someone tries to rip open the cups the mods are destroyed upon prying the cups open.

ah ok. I searched them up before I asked and was wondering if the stock Paradoxes were already performing at their price point and the point of the cable mods you can order on there is to just be picky about sound. But apparently you ordered unconventionally haha.

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