Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 324

post #4846 of 20928
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRSxIgnition View Post

Thing is - we are on batch 1.

 

"Batch 0" was all the test units that were put through wire straining tests, drop tests, isolation and leakage tests, variance tests, etc... Once they figured out what they needed to fix and such, they did so, and began this line, which I will refer to as "Batch 1".

 

"Batch 1" is the set of units being made to order off the finished, fixed template that they got from testing "Batch 0." It is the set that is sent out to reviewers and head-fi'ers, meaning that it is as complete as any MPU. The only difference between these PRU's of "Batch 1" and the MPU's, is that these are being made in advance and given out to the press and Head-Fi; and while we are trying them and offering our input, they will be building their inventory to send out to retailers and sell.

 

The VTF's are not a testing product, not an unfinished product, and not a product we need to be worried about breaking or having defects. You can tell by the way Val runs his business, he would never send out (much less CHARGE for) units that come from the pre-fixing stage of production.

 

What kind of company would charge for/send out problem units? What kind of company would produce more "off the line" when they've found out what is wrong with THAT LINE?

 

No company ever releases products with known problems.  It's the unknown that comes out.  That's my entire statement.  Your Batch 1 was batch 0.  You are just segregating them out since they weren't tested on.  They are still the same batch.  Like Val said, half are used for testing.  Half will be sold this time around (cause he had no clue what happens with them).  They are the same batch.  What you called batch 0 and what you called batch 1 above are the same batch.  

 

I said nothing about unfinished, nor testing.  They are, however, untested (in the real world).  They shouldn't have defects...  Key word here is shouldn't.  But without real world testing, we won't know for sure.  For example, the first batch of MEE A161s had a problem with the strain relief that caused the plastic cable to disconnect from the strain relief while the copper was still connected. Phonak had a very bad first batch of products when it originally released the 1xx line causing a loss of audio in either earpiece (forgot if it was one or both).  Both of these were past the PPU phase.  The A161s I think were a batch 0 (first batch ever made).  The problem was fixed before hand though.  Aiaiai TMA-1 Studios have (and still do as far as I'm concerned) with the glue coming undone after weeks of use on the foam pads.  None of this is expected.  It is tested for, but not in the real world.  It's the real world that exposes the products the most.  Note that I myself haven't run into all of these problems.  The Phonak and Aiaiai one I have not run into as I don't own first batches (I do have an Aiaiai that could be defective, but I'll live with it).  I've had others that have had problems though.  

 

Testing is only going to do so much.  You can only account for so much.  Like software engineering, you can test all you want, some MFer will still come out and F with your program in the real world.  Same goes with physical products.  It's true test is in the real world, not in a controlled area.  Controlled area can help determine real world, but it isn't.  

 

Are they going to have problems.  IDK.  I doubt it, like I do every pair of headphones I have.  Lemons are bound to be around (gotten my fair share as well).  Is it possible some unexpected problem will show up since these having been fully tested in the general public?  Well, that's still up for grabs, we don't know.  Tests that Val does have confirmed that they should last so long as there is no manufacturing bug that needs fixing.  

 

 

 

That's all I'm going to say about this product at this time.  They are not the final production run of the first batch which will be given to pre-orderers (not people who bought PPUs) or anything after that.  Transition from PPU to final can have slight variances if anything is found.  Otherwise, it will be the same.  Note I never say there will be, but as with any pre-release product (or even first batch for that matter), it has a higher chance to have problems.  

post #4847 of 20928
Hey guys whatever it is...I'm sure you can cancel the order before they ship... If its a pre order anyway or whatever it is..they only take your money when its sentI assume whenever that is... I will be moving soon so I made two orders with the intention to cancel one depending on when they start sending....as I will be of f to anothe country... Honestly all this uncertainty is stressing me out. I even wrote in to vmoda but they haven't replied to anything. Odd ?
post #4848 of 20928

We agree to disagree. 

 

The way I look at it, I'm on the optimistic side, he's on the pessimistic side - both have points and both have faults. We just have to hope these don't have any faults of their own.

 

Either way, we get a great warranty and such, so I wouldn't worry too much.

 

I'm going to sleep now - for real this time - yes, really really. Goodnight Head-Fi.

post #4849 of 20928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerryberry View Post

Hey guys whatever it is...I'm sure you can cancel the order before they ship... If its a pre order anyway or whatever it is..they only take your money when its sentI assume whenever that is... I will be moving soon so I made two orders with the intention to cancel one depending on when they start sending....as I will be of f to anothe country... Honestly all this uncertainty is stressing me out. I even wrote in to vmoda but they haven't replied to anything. Odd ?

 

It is pre-production.  They are perfectly useable, not to worry there.  They will come with everything the production model will...  No worries there.  They aren't the production model...  (not until it's found they have no bugs in them).  

post #4850 of 20928

Well, tinyman392 isn't being pessimistic, but more like, realistic - and I do appreciate his past inputs.

 

One thing we have to remember, is that Val has been using Eric Morillo as a lab rat (lmao) for a long time now with the M-100. So Val is a smart guy.

post #4851 of 20928

They're technically pre-production units, period. That's not to say that they are bad or unfinished or a test product, it's just that they are an extremely limited release before the official launch date. That's a pre-production model by definition, no matter what the quality is of it. You could hand build every last one, subject them to the most rigorous approval process, and dip them in 24k gold before sending them out and they'd still be pre-production units, by definition. 

 

I don't doubt that they will be just as good as production M-100s. I don't doubt that they've been subject to high standards of quality. That doesn't change the fact that if these go out, and the 1 in a million chance occurs that there is in fact some significant problem that wasn't caught in testing, the production units (many of which have already probably been produced) will be tweaked or thrown out for a revised batch. It happens quite often with pre production products. I've seen so many early reviews of tablets (pre production sent out to tech sites) that note a really weird problem in their unit that isn't severe but is bothersome, and the company fixes this problem before launch. In fact, most of the time the reviewer will note that it is probably just their particular unit and that you shouldn't worry about the issue because the company will probably resolve it.

 

V-Moda's dedication to quality is such that I imagine such a thing would never happen, and chances are the production will be the exact same as pre-production. The term pre-production is still used, however, as a matter of technicality.

post #4852 of 20928
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRSxIgnition View Post

Thing is - we are on batch 1.

 

"Batch 0" was all the test units that were put through wire straining tests, drop tests, isolation and leakage tests, variance tests, etc... Once they figured out what they needed to fix and such, they did so, and began this line, which I will refer to as "Batch 1".

 

"Batch 1" is the set of units being made to order off the finished, fixed template that they got from testing "Batch 0." It is the set that is sent out to reviewers and head-fi'ers, meaning that it is as complete as any MPU. The only difference between these PRU's of "Batch 1" and the MPU's, is that these are being made in advance and given out to the press and Head-Fi; and while we are trying them and offering our input, they will be building their inventory to send out to retailers and sell.

 

The VTF's are not a testing product, not an unfinished product, and not a product we need to be worried about breaking or having defects. You can tell by the way Val runs his business, he would never send out (much less CHARGE for) units that come from the pre-fixing stage of production.

 

What kind of company would charge for/send out problem units? What kind of company would produce more "off the line" when they've found out what is wrong with THAT LINE?

 

PS: Apologies if I come off as harsh, but it makes no sense to test units, improve on them, and then make more of the UN-improved units to sell. I'm just using logic.

PPS: I'm getting all fired up - sorry if this is becoming an argument, we can move it to PM.

Reviewers are often sent pre-production units which contain flaws the mass production batches do not have. 

 

Now, I can't speak for the V-Moda production process, I am involved in a process that involves testing, pre-production, and production releases - albeit in a different industry. But we, at least, perform all of our heavy testing equivalent to the tests you listed on a very very very limited run. After that, we make changes and make a significantly larger run. This is sent to reviewers, certain customers, etc. This is our PPU. We *think* it's good enough for mass production, so we're ready to ship it out in limited quantities. Sometimes these are fine, and there's no difference between them and the version we make publicly available. Sometimes bugs slip through that the reviewers/chosen customers notice, and we fix before general availability.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong and he's right, or you're right and he's wrong, because I quite honestly don't know... but I am saying that it being tested previously and this being the same model being sent to reviewers is not an instant guarantee it's the final consumer available product.

post #4853 of 20928

PPU or MPU or batch 1 or batch 2 or whatever, it should still be covered under v-moda's warranty.  So if any bugs do arise within that time, I'm pretty sure you can send it in to get it fixed.

and iirc val said that these were ppus that were being sound tested by him and his crew, and if they didn't pass, they were sent back and reworked until they did pass. at least that's how i interpreted

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

 

Yes, I have all the response curves on one chart for M-100s and they are virtually identical and ~50% from the first 100 passed all 6 sound tests. I am thrilled about this yield on the first 100. We'll rework the other 50 and then the next 500 should be about 85-90% yield I believe.


SOUND + QUALITY IS #1!

 

Backstage Pass

It is interesting that you now know what I go through during development, trust me our whole team wants these as badly as you do. I used to tell my clients when I was a technology engineering consultant: "you can have it good, fast or cheap.  Pick two."

 

Stand By Me

Did you see my Facebook post on V-MODA?  Is M-100 is the only headphone in the world that can stand on its own???  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

 

Thanks!!!  I'm so amped too, I am wearing the first unit right now, the cable is shocking and looks killer. They won't go on sale quite yet until we sort and see what we "yield".

 

In fact, we test the FR curves at 6 points to be lower than <2dB variance.  For the first 100 units, we yielded about 50%, yet the units that didn't pass were SOOOO close you'd almost say "ok you made it" considering that some brands are up to 20dB variances.  But, thats not how we roll and a rule is a rule on our variance tolerances.  

 

In the end, this is very good news on the sound based on my years of experience that the yield will be >90% in both the next PP round/rework and the MP. Have no fear, the rejects aren't trashed with our on/over-ear products, they just go back to school and get new drivers/parts until they pass!  

 

 


Edited by innocentsin - 8/17/12 at 12:45am
post #4854 of 20928

Slightly unrelated, but how many of these PPU's do you think are reserved for big-time reviewers (e.g. Jude or Tyll)? I'm not a businessman, but I thought PPU's are usually given to such big reviewers rather than purchased.

post #4855 of 20928
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Slightly unrelated, but how many of these PPU's do you think are reserved for big-time reviewers (e.g. Jude or Tyll)? I'm not a businessman, but I thought PPU's are usually given to such big reviewers rather than purchased.


miceblue, do you need sleep? :P

 

Maybe those two you mentioned will get one each.

post #4856 of 20928

Hey guys, im just a little concerned but i dont know when the product i ordered will arrive and wondering if i am able to cancel the order as im moving abroad. I initially tried to reorder to the new address and it turns out that i have now made two pre orders and am stuck. I would like to cancel one of them if not both depending on how soon i will be able to recieve them and where i will be at that time. Im quite confident that the excellent staff at v moda will be able to cancel if i wish to do so...What do u think ? I checked my credit card account and the money has yet to be withdrawn so i think its still possible to cancel before they send it right ?

post #4857 of 20928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerryberry View Post

Hey guys, im just a little concerned but i dont know when the product i ordered will arrive and wondering if i am able to cancel the order as im moving abroad. I initially tried to reorder to the new address and it turns out that i have now made two pre orders and am stuck. I would like to cancel one of them if not both depending on how soon i will be able to recieve them and where i will be at that time. Im quite confident that the excellent staff at v moda will be able to cancel if i wish to do so...What do u think ? I checked my credit card account and the money has yet to be withdrawn so i think its still possible to cancel before they send it right ?

 

Call them.

 

Huh... so not everyone has been charged yet.  I was charged immediately when I made my order.  A quirk of PayPal? (my method of payment)  Perhaps -- or this is possibly an indication of who's locked in for a PPU and who's in the pre-order queue.  Anyone else (especially a non-PayPal user) give up their simoleons yet?

post #4858 of 20928

They also have EXCELLENT email service from my experience, I got answer within an hour or even a half hour last time lol. Either of them should work. I cancelled an order of LP2 this way via email, and was sorted out quickly and got back my money instantly.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 8/17/12 at 2:55am
post #4859 of 20928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly21029 View Post

Call them.

Huh... so not everyone has been charged yet.  I was charged immediately when I made my order.  A quirk of PayPal? (my method of payment)  Perhaps -- or this is possibly an indication of who's locked in for a PPU and who's in the pre-order queue.  Anyone else (especially a non-PayPal user) give up their simoleons yet?

If you use paypal they will charge you immediately. I am using cc and I have been charged
post #4860 of 20928

that or my bank account has not been updated.. i was thinking it was similar to amazon where they debit the card when they send it and especially now they are pre orders... and that its fine to cancel them before they are sent.... i dont want to pay for two... i cant afford that !!! i did email the customer support and also messaged them on their website but have yet to hear back... its odd that everything is so quite from v moda... why hasnt anyone said anything from their end  ???

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc.