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V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 1276

post #19126 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCImes View Post

IMO, the XL pads did very very little to the sound sig. The only exception I think would be if the stock pads did not seal completely on your ears. Maybe they change the sound stage slightly as the drivers are slightly further from your ears, but overall there I precieved almost no change except being WAY more comfortable.

And they are a pain to get out. Im a strong guy, and I thought I was going to destroy them before they finally popped out. I think doing it a second time would be easier though, but Ill never know, as I Hated the stock pads to the point that I would have sold the phones without the XL pads. They hurt my ears that bad with the stock pads

 

Naw, the XL pads did add a few dB boost onto the bass unfortunately.  You'd have to compare them side by side to really hear it more clearly.  The differences are there for sure.  But the signatures are extremely similar (why wouldn't they be) that you'll adjust to them quite quickly.  If you use the XL pads for a week and swap back, you'll hear the differences almost instantly. 

post #19127 of 20874

You can probably do some correction to that with an EQ or by taping up some of the driver holes if you can get access to them.

post #19128 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semont View Post

You can probably do some correction to that with an EQ or by taping up some of the driver holes if you can get access to them.

Porous tape on the inside of the shield vents.
Been there, done that. smily_headphones1.gif
post #19129 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post
 

 

Naw, the XL pads did add a few dB boost onto the bass unfortunately.  You'd have to compare them side by side to really hear it more clearly.  The differences are there for sure.  But the signatures are extremely similar (why wouldn't they be) that you'll adjust to them quite quickly.  If you use the XL pads for a week and swap back, you'll hear the differences almost instantly. 

 

I compared them literally as side by side as possible: After switching them out a few times, I literally mixed them and had one of each on and periodically rotated the set. Didn't hear any appreciable difference. If the sounds are so similar that literally the only way to notice is to have one pair with the XL and one pair with stock playing the same song and quickly swap... then it's probably placebo effect.

 

The only difference (and I mean the only difference) was that the XL pads give it some more air because, duh, there's more open space in it. This notion that they get darker or bassier is just crap. Everyone who reviews the XL pads says something different. Some say it makes the bass louder, some say it gets tighter, some say it gets boomy, some say it extends deeper, etc etc etc. If there was a real difference from one to the other, we should probably let VMODA know because right on their website they stress the fact that they spent a year working on the XL pads to make sure that they don't change the sound. 

 

A few DB boost? That would be a VERY noticeable difference. Remember that the M100 bass is about 5dB above neutral. A few dB would mean basically doubling the bass output. 

post #19130 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

I compared them literally as side by side as possible: After switching them out a few times, I literally mixed them and had one of each on and periodically rotated the set. Didn't hear any appreciable difference. If the sounds are so similar that literally the only way to notice is to have one pair with the XL and one pair with stock playing the same song and quickly swap... then it's probably placebo effect.

 

The only difference (and I mean the only difference) was that the XL pads give it some more air because, duh, there's more open space in it. This notion that they get darker or bassier is just crap. Everyone who reviews the XL pads says something different. Some say it makes the bass louder, some say it gets tighter, some say it gets boomy, some say it extends deeper, etc etc etc. If there was a real difference from one to the other, we should probably let VMODA know because right on their website they stress the fact that they spent a year working on the XL pads to make sure that they don't change the sound. 

 

A few DB boost? That would be a VERY noticeable difference. Remember that the M100 bass is about 5dB above neutral. A few dB would mean basically doubling the bass output. 

 

I'm not going to argue stances with you, there's no reason to at this point...  Just do know, you're not the first to come at me personally about this in disagreement...  Though they other guy did eventually swap back (after a week of using the XL) and heard the difference. 

post #19131 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

 

I compared them literally as side by side as possible: After switching them out a few times, I literally mixed them and had one of each on and periodically rotated the set. Didn't hear any appreciable difference. If the sounds are so similar that literally the only way to notice is to have one pair with the XL and one pair with stock playing the same song and quickly swap... then it's probably placebo effect.

 

The only difference (and I mean the only difference) was that the XL pads give it some more air because, duh, there's more open space in it. This notion that they get darker or bassier is just crap. Everyone who reviews the XL pads says something different. Some say it makes the bass louder, some say it gets tighter, some say it gets boomy, some say it extends deeper, etc etc etc. If there was a real difference from one to the other, we should probably let VMODA know because right on their website they stress the fact that they spent a year working on the XL pads to make sure that they don't change the sound. 

 

A few DB boost? That would be a VERY noticeable difference. Remember that the M100 bass is about 5dB above neutral. A few dB would mean basically doubling the bass output. 

 



I had the exact same experience.

I did side by side comparisons when I put the first one on. I heard almost no difference. People who claim any significant difference have different ears than me I guess. If there is a bass boost, its .5 dB, not 5. dB.
Edited by MCImes - 3/12/14 at 12:52pm
post #19132 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

I compared them literally as side by side as possible: After switching them out a few times, I literally mixed them and had one of each on and periodically rotated the set. Didn't hear any appreciable difference. If the sounds are so similar that literally the only way to notice is to have one pair with the XL and one pair with stock playing the same song and quickly swap... then it's probably placebo effect.

 

The only difference (and I mean the only difference) was that the XL pads give it some more air because, duh, there's more open space in it. This notion that they get darker or bassier is just crap. Everyone who reviews the XL pads says something different. Some say it makes the bass louder, some say it gets tighter, some say it gets boomy, some say it extends deeper, etc etc etc. If there was a real difference from one to the other, we should probably let VMODA know because right on their website they stress the fact that they spent a year working on the XL pads to make sure that they don't change the sound. 

 

A few DB boost? That would be a VERY noticeable difference. Remember that the M100 bass is about 5dB above neutral. A few dB would mean basically doubling the bass output. 


I respect your opinion that for you there probably have been differences that vary from mine. I'm just stating what I heard with initial impression from standard to XL pads.

Maybe there was a factor of my M100's not properly sealing, and that's why I'm hearing differences. Maybe it could be the fact that the drivers are further from my ears, and that I'm hearing more sub bass than mid bass. (Something that I've experienced with fostex t50rp alpha pads and hifiman he-4 pleathers with my a900x)
But the line is that there definitely was a change in sound for me, and I'd like to say it has to deal with factors I can't put a solid confirmation on.
All in all, the change was for the better and I'll be satisfied to know I won't be switching back to standard pads.

post #19133 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

Naw, the XL pads did add a few dB boost onto the bass unfortunately.  You'd have to compare them side by side to really hear it more clearly.  The differences are there for sure.  But the signatures are extremely similar (why wouldn't they be) that you'll adjust to them quite quickly.  If you use the XL pads for a week and swap back, you'll hear the differences almost instantly. 

I compared them literally as side by side as possible: After switching them out a few times, I literally mixed them and had one of each on and periodically rotated the set. Didn't hear any appreciable difference. If the sounds are so similar that literally the only way to notice is to have one pair with the XL and one pair with stock playing the same song and quickly swap... then it's probably placebo effect.

The only difference (and I mean the only difference) was that the XL pads give it some more air because, duh, there's more open space in it. This notion that they get darker or bassier is just crap. Everyone who reviews the XL pads says something different. Some say it makes the bass louder, some say it gets tighter, some say it gets boomy, some say it extends deeper, etc etc etc. If there was a real difference from one to the other, we should probably let VMODA know because right on their website they stress the fact that they spent a year working on the XL pads to make sure that they don't change the sound. 
The fit is the sound, as they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

stock pad + large percentile ears= what we aimed for in sound perception
XL pad + large percentile ears <>sound for greatest % of people... too boomy and bass bleeds w mids for most but for others will be same as #1
XL pad + smaller percentile ears (xl but this also considers depth not just diameter) = same sound as stock + large percentile

THE FIT IS THE SOUND... it is like the room for speakers, we cannot make cushions that fit 100% of population universally to have the sound we aim for, but we try to hit a vast majority and I believe we have done a good job based on overall reviews through the years. Remember, mids are shaped by your concha and angle. like a bat...
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

The volume of air and pitch of the ear can change a lot with smaller-medium/flatter ears like mine. I have been trolling around a lot more lately to see the reactions for future product dev and further mods down the road on M-100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

XL UPDATE - ACOUSTICS APPROVED - NOW IN PRODUCTION

We did a serious listening test of the final 4 variations and decided on #6 in the graph below. As I have always said, never trust response curves solely as "the fit is the sound" and your individual ear crafts the final response curve - like a room and speakers. Having said that, it is helpful to take a peek at the machine responses AFTER we test with our golden ears.

I delegated (hard for me to type) my team handle the golden ear tests as I do not have big enough ears to be a customer for this product. I trust this team, they are a hand-picked group of true hi-fi fanatics who have helped me tune the M-series and VAMP. We even do hearing test audiograms to make sure we can hear properly when testing.

Whew- so, there we go - I finally green lighted mass production and I'll have dates soon.

Final XL Cushion test candidates (again solid evidence that flatter is not always better when it comes to FR curves as your ear shapes the sound more than the FR data):





Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

XL CUSHIONS
We will have another round soon... but like I said "rome wasn't built in a day" and the cushions are especially sensitive to me, it is what took almost 6 years of tuning on M-100 alone so I do feel it is worth the wait. As I say "the fit is the sound", so if I change the fit I also will change your sound...
post #19134 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratinox View Post

Porous tape on the inside of the shield vents.
Been there, done that. smily_headphones1.gif

Liked that.
post #19135 of 20874
^ very interesting. Great post. So Val's saying we're all right!
post #19136 of 20874

Or we're all WRONG! :mad:

 

Actually that does make sense. My ears didn't have any problems with the fit of the stock pads (aside from being kinda cramped) and the XL is just more comfortable. I could absolutely see sonic differences depending on your ears if there was a seal issue or something along those lines.

 

Like the guy said, the seal is the sound and if you get a solid seal on both stock and XL my guess is you won't see some big difference, like me.

post #19137 of 20874
I've spent most of a week with Neutron's EQ trying to find a mellower setting for the V-Moda's without success. It's my birthday next Sunday and yesterday my wife asked me if there was anything I fancied. I chanced my luck and said I'd quite like a pair of AKG Q701's, especially since they're pretty heavily discounted on Amazon right now. She told me OK! I'm wearing them right now. Plenty room in these ear cups. These could not be more different from the M-100's. Of course, I wouldn't be seen dead in public with these on and they leak sound all over the place but, wow!
post #19138 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorrofox View Post

I've spent most of a week with Neutron's EQ trying to find a mellower setting for the V-Moda's without success. It's my birthday next Sunday and yesterday my wife asked me if there was anything I fancied. I chanced my luck and said I'd quite like a pair of AKG Q701's, especially since they're pretty heavily discounted on Amazon right now. She told me OK! I'm wearing them right now. Plenty room in these ear cups. These could not be more different from the M-100's. Of course, I wouldn't be seen dead in public with these on and they leak sound all over the place but, wow!



See you in the Q701 Appreciation thread? :D

post #19139 of 20874

Just out of curiosity, why do people get the M100's if they want to mod/EQ them to flatten the response out? I'd imagine there are far more suitable products.

post #19140 of 20874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

Just out of curiosity, why do people get the M100's if they want to mod/EQ them to flatten the response out? I'd imagine there are far more suitable products.


Because maybe it's a cheaper solution than just buying an entirely new headphone.

I bought the T50rp's in hopes to mod it and get a frequency response chart like the M100's.
I finished my modding, didn't like the results and just pulled the trigger on a new pair of headphones.

 

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