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V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 1184

post #17746 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Existence View Post

MacBook doesn't have a DAC in it but it has a pretty good sound card.
Macs have really nice sound software. The SPDIF card (might of spelt it wrong) needs to be manually set on a mac.

The E17 is really solid. It's something like $135-$170. Pair it with a FiiO L7 to get clearer sound. A DAC is only good as the cable - make sure the cable is clean, also.
You could just save your money and not buy an amp, but you know.

Ok, would the E17 be a big upgrade over the built in sound card of the MacBook Air?
post #17747 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Existence View Post

MacBook doesn't have a DAC in it but it has a pretty good sound card.
Technically it does since it's incorporated into the soundcard.
Without a Digital-Analog Converter, you wouldn't be able to use headphones or even the built-in speakers to listen to music. wink.gif
post #17748 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by B1ueB1aze View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Existence View Post

MacBook doesn't have a DAC in it but it has a pretty good sound card.
Macs have really nice sound software. The SPDIF card (might of spelt it wrong) needs to be manually set on a mac.

The E17 is really solid. It's something like $135-$170. Pair it with a FiiO L7 to get clearer sound. A DAC is only good as the cable - make sure the cable is clean, also.
You could just save your money and not buy an amp, but you know.

Ok, would the E17 be a big upgrade over the built in sound card of the MacBook Air?
With the L7 and the E17 plugged in, it'd bypass the soundcard giving you cleaner sound.
post #17749 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Existence View Post


With the L7 and the E17 plugged in, it'd bypass the soundcard giving you cleaner sound.

 

Ok, so the E17 alone won't bypass the sound card? From my understanding the L7 bypasses the amp in the E17. Wouldn't that mean I would need a external amp other then the E17?

post #17750 of 22821

Hey B1ueB1aze, congrats on your purchase. A couple notes about your questions from my personal experience:

 

Fit compared to LP2s:

 

I had some LP2s at one point, from memory the fit is almost identical.

 

Benefits from amplification:

 

Up until about 4 days ago, I used the M-100s exclusively with no amp, as I did not own one. After buying some ER4P/S headphones, I decided the investment would be worthwhile to power the ER4S, a higher power requiring headphone compared to the M-100 (an amp is virtually necessary to get good sound). After signifigant research, I went with the Fiio E07K DAC/Amp combo, which costs about $89.  Naturally, I used it with my M-100s to see if there was any sound improvement. Let me tell you, there is a significant difference. For starters, the DAC in your apple machine is vastly inferior to the DAC in a Fiio E07K or Fiio E17. Additionally, the added power makes the headphones sound "fuller" if you will.  By "fuller" I mean more detail with less volume.  You can also adjust bass, treble, mids, gain, etc to your exact preferences in a highly intuitive and easy to use interface on the device itself. It also comes with aux and USB cables you need to get started, and even includes a protective case and screen shields. I cant speak higher of this product and I highly recommend it. 

 

Fiio E17 and Fiio L7 Questions:

 

The Fiio E17 alone WILL replace your macbooks DAC and is VASTLY superior. The E17 is a slightly better version of the E07K, and works as a DAC Amp combo. The L7 is simply a line out dock that plugs into the device, which can improve sound clarity I assume via a cleaner connection, but I am honestly not sure. This DOES make the device a DAC only, and it would require separate amplification. You only need the L7 if you want to use your E07K/ E17 as a DAC and have another amplifier.

 

Overall:

 

Fit is comparable to the LP2S

 

You don't HAVE to have one, but I noticed sound quality improvement with an amp and recommend one. It also paves the way for future headphones you may want that require amplification. 

 

The E17 replaces your macbooks DAC and is better.  It is a DAC Amp combo device and will replace your macbook's DAC automatically by just plugging it in. 

 

Hoped that helped. Enjoy the M-100s, they are great!


Edited by MaxMusic - 12/9/13 at 7:26pm
post #17751 of 22821

Thank you for the very informative post MaxMusic! I'm seriously considering the E17. It looks like a really good portable combo dac/amp. I'm still a little confused as to what the L7 does. What does a line out do exactly? How would I use the L7? I've read that the L7 bypasses the E17's amp. Does this mean I'd need another amp to use with the L7 and E17?


Edited by B1ueB1aze - 12/9/13 at 7:29pm
post #17752 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by B1ueB1aze View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Existence View Post

With the L7 and the E17 plugged in, it'd bypass the soundcard giving you cleaner sound.

Ok, so the E17 alone won't bypass the sound card? From my understanding the L7 bypasses the amp in the E17. Wouldn't that mean I would need a external amp other then the E17?
Oh yes, the E17 will bypass the Mac's sound card but the L7 will give you better sound, because it's from a LOD output and not a AUX output. You wouldn't need an external amp, just an E17 and if you want clearer, cleaner sound, the L7 attached to the E17.
post #17753 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMusic View Post

Hey B1ueB1aze, congrats on your purchase. A couple notes about your questions from my personal experience:

Fit compared to LP2s:

I had some LP2s at one point, from memory the fit is almost identical.



Fiio E17 and Fiio L7 Questions:

The Fiio E17 alone WILL replace your macbooks DAC and is VASTLY superior. The E17 is a slightly better version of the E07K, and works as a DAC Amp combo. The L7 is simply a line out dock that plugs into the device, which can improve sound clarity I assume via a cleaner connection, but I am honestly not sure. This DOES make the device a DAC only, and it would require separate amplification. You only need the L7 if you want to use your E07K/ E17 as a DAC and have another amplifier.

Overall:

Fit is comparable to the LP2S

You don't HAVE to have one, but I noticed sound quality improvement with an amp and recommend one. It also paves the way for future headphones you may want that require amplification. 

The E17 replaces your macbooks DAC and is better.  It is a DAC Amp combo device and will replace your macbook's DAC automatically by just plugging it in. 

Hoped that helped. Enjoy the M-100s, they are great!
Wrong. The L7 is a Line Out Dock. It supports the Line Out. It bypasses the use of AUX inputs and uses LODs instead, giving clearer sound. You can still use it as you would with a AUX player (iPod -> Amp -> Source).
Also you'll need the amp on 12 gain to get the most out of it. The LOD helps because it gives you one volume control instead of two, giving you more control over the overrall volume because it's annoying to control the volume of the source and the amplifier all the time.
Edited by Allucid - 12/9/13 at 7:33pm
post #17754 of 22821

I edited my post a couple minutes ago to clarify, because I was a little confused too because the English on the Fiio site is not very good, however I managed to figure it out. Essentially the L7 makes the E07K or E17 just a DAC. You would buy this if you had a better amp, or simply did not want an amp at all. Previously Existence was suggesting to pair the E17 with the L7, apparently assuming the M-100 does not need amplification. As previously sated, I think it does benefit from amplification, so I would avoid that option. Additionally, if the M-100 truly did not benefit from any amplification (again, false), there are better, cheaper standalone DACs out there. 

post #17755 of 22821

Thank you again for the informative post MaxMusic! I didn't know that I could use something like the E17 as just a DAC without an amp. I thought that a DAC always needed an amp. I'll try out the M-100's first once they arrive, and see how they sound, but I am seriously considering that E17, sounds like it would be a big improvement.

post #17756 of 22821
Wait, I thought the L7 is a line out adaptor for the E17/E07k/E7, meaning you would need a separate amplifier.

You can use the E17 itself as an external soundcard (MacBook -> USB cable -> E17 -> headphones).
post #17757 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Wait, I thought the L7 is a line out adaptor for the E17/E07k/E7, meaning you would need a separate amplifier.

You can use the E17 itself as an external soundcard (MacBook -> USB cable -> E17 -> headphones).
I was under the assumption it was just like the L11, bypassing the need for an AUX.
post #17758 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMusic View Post

I edited my post a couple minutes ago to clarify, because I was a little confused too because the English on the Fiio site is not very good, however I managed to figure it out. Essentially the L7 makes the E07K or E17 just a DAC. You would buy this if you had a better amp, or simply did not want an amp at all. Previously Existence was suggesting to pair the E17 with the L7, apparently assuming the M-100 does not need amplification. As previously sated, I think it does benefit from amplification, so I would avoid that option. Additionally, if the M-100 truly did not benefit from any amplification (again, false), there are better, cheaper standalone DACs out there. 
I stated that the M100 doesn't need amplification but can benefit from it, depending on the amp.
It needs EQing and amping to become better than it already is.
post #17759 of 22821
I wonder if the new T-PEOS "WAPA" DAC is any good for the M100. I'm thinking being an early adopter but of course I hate wasting money if it's terrible..
post #17760 of 22821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Existence View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Wait, I thought the L7 is a line out adaptor for the E17/E07k/E7, meaning you would need a separate amplifier.

You can use the E17 itself as an external soundcard (MacBook -> USB cable -> E17 -> headphones).
I was under the assumption it was just like the L11, bypassing the need for an AUX.
The L11 is a line out dock connector so you can bypass the iPod's internal amplifier and connect it to an external one. If the L11 works like the L3 and L9, it outputs the maximum volume, essentially, from the iPod and is non-adjustable since you adjust the volume through the external amplifier.

Source -> Digitial-Analog Converter -> amplifier -> headphone out -> headphones, no?

iPod -> iPod DAC -> L11 to bypass internal iPod amplifier (line out) -> external amplifier -> headphone out -> headphones
MacBook -> built-in soundcard -> headphone out -> headphones
MacBook -> USB cable -> E17/E07k/E7 to bypass MacBook soundcard (AKA external soundcard) -> headphone out -> headphones
MacBook -> USB cable -> E17/E07k/E7 -> L7 to bypass E17/E07k/E7 amplifier (line out) -> external amplifier -> headphone out -> headphones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_out_%28signal%29#Line_out
Quote:
Connecting a low-impedance load such as a loudspeaker (usually 4 to 8 Ω) to a line out will essentially short circuit the output circuit, as such loads are around 1/1000 the impedance a line out is designed to drive. The line out is thus usually not designed to source as much current as such a load would draw at normal line out signal voltages. The result will be very weak sound from the speaker and possibly a damaged line out circuit.

Headphone outputs and line outputs are sometimes confused. Different make and model headphones have widely varying impedances, from a common low of 32 Ω to a few hundred ohms; the lowest of these will have results similar to a speaker, while the highest may work acceptably if the line out impedance is low enough and the headphones are sensitive enough. Conversely, a headphone output generally has an impedance of only a few ohms (to provide a bridging connection with 32 ohm headphones) and will easily drive a line input.


Thus, you can use the E17 as an external soundcard with the MacBook, and I'm sure it'll sound just fine with the M-100. I've read a lot of good things about the E17, and the M-100 was pretty good with my E7 as an external soundcard with my a 2008 MacBook. Even with a 2013 MacBook Pro, the M-100 can pick up background noise from the headphone out port, so having an external soundcard would be nice to have handy.
Edited by miceblue - 12/9/13 at 8:53pm
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