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post #17086 of 20897
I know where you're coming from K-Lawn, I seem to have the same preferences in sound like you and would prefer the punchy bass and more intimate and engaging sound of stock pads. But you have to remember people have different taste, we have this specific taste, others not so there's no need to try justify your preferences. If others enjoy the more laid-back sound, by all means let them! Many people swear by Sennheiser HD800 for example, for me it's not my cup of tea due to the "distant" sound you're talking about here for example and could probably get more enjoyment from certain $100 headphones that have a sound more to my taste (cough Q40 :p)

But yea same goes for the XL pad enthusiasts, you can't say XL sounds better for everyone.
 
At least I thank your very detailed description of the sound differences, having experienced the exactly same thing before with padswaps which I disliked I can save $30 or whatever it would be with shipping costs to Finland in case I decide to try the M100 (would like to know if Amazon accepts returning of M100 despite the ribbon sealing the package is cut before placing an order)

Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 10/15/13 at 12:49pm
post #17087 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Lawn View Post

I guess it's all preference. I don't really see how headphones sound much better as some people are claiming. I feel people are simply trying to convicne themselves that they are in order to feel better about their decision to swap them. Yes, they are much more comfortable. However, they compromise sound for me (and remember that I have small ears). To me, the reason I got the M100s was for the engaging sound and punchy bass. If I wanted balanced headphones, I would have gotten the Momentums. The M100s simply didn't sound like M100s anymore with the XL pads. The Xls make the headphones too boomy. I'm a stickler when it comes to bass, and I am looking for a tighter bass rather than a loose one. I thought the originals pads simply deliver the better sound. The drivers in the M100s were tuned for the original pads, not the XLs so I feel the sound is better optimized for the regular ones. I can agree that perhaps the XLs are better suited for hard rock and heavy metal, in which the original pads can provide fatiguing highs (not to mention that distorted guitar being right up to your ear). But for rap, hip-hop, electronic, classic rock, acoustic, folk, the original pads are the way to go. 

After writing an initial review on the XLs soon after I installed them (saying they had a looser but still-present bass with more recessed mids), I will simply say this after a few days of use; if the original pads were comfortable for me, I wouldn't be swapping them out for the XLs. However, with the improved comfort, I feel I can now focus on the music rather than the pain being inflicted on my head and ears. I don't agree the XLs give a more balanced sound but agree with everything else you've said, just my opinion.
post #17088 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Lawn View Post
 

I disagree.  I believe that instrument separation has taken a hit with the XLs. People are confusing the increase in distance between the ear and driver for an increase in sound stage. In reality, its just an increase in distance from the source of sound. To me, the instruments seems to bleed into each other as the sound must travel a further distance to reach your ear drum. With the originals, your ear is much closer to the driver, which gives the sound more clarity, and the instruments more distinction. I also disagree with the mids being marginally recessed. I see them more as drowned out due to the more pronounced lows (the thump you're referring to) as well as the distance between the ear and driver. The mids take a major hit. The punchy bass that the old ones were known for has become more of a loose boomy bass with the XLs. The highs become less fatiguing which is definitely a pro for the XLs. That's why genres such as Heavy Metal and Hard Rock may sound better with the XL pads. But if you're looking for metal/rock headphones, you're looking at the wrong brand. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone with small ears that do not protrude my  head at all. I had no comfort with the original pads. From a sound standpoint, I just see no strong argument for why the XLs sound better.

 

Just compare the song "Stan" by Eminem with the Regulars and XLs. The acoustic guitar in the background during the verse is much more pronounced with the old pads. With the XLs, it seem too distant. The vocal clarity also takes a major hit with the XLs. WIth the regulars, it felt like Eminem was talking into your ear. With the XLs, the vocals become too distant and lose clarity. The bass in the song becomes looser and more boomy, and it bleeds into the drum track in the background. 

 

If you're looking for a more relaxed and distant sound, the XLs are great. If you're looking for a more engaging and intimate experience with your music, the Old Pads are the way to go. 

Tested again today, and I'm afraid you are right (except for soundstage, still think the XL is better there). But, I find I lacked the grit and some details in the low mids and overall punch of the headphones. Still I know they aren't the right phones for metal, but there aren't good portable phones for metal around except some  IEM and I have fitting issues with them. It's not exactly a big deal for me since I didn't have any fit issues either.

Oh well, they still gonna be useful if I'm about to use them for a couple of hours straight.


Edited by flipper2gv - 10/15/13 at 4:23pm
post #17089 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post
 

 

 

 

Well you could return it for the reason of Defective/Doesn't work properly: Say they just Hurt.

 

 

But Just buy them directly from V-moda.com they should ship to Finland and the 60 day test guarantee should be able to send it back to them

post #17090 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicadraus View Post
 


I think the XS is a different model. My friend who works at DJ Corner in Dubai which happens to be the distributor of V-Moda in the Middle East is now in Hong Kong for a meeting with V-Moda people and rumors of a launch of a new M-80 with foldable hinges. I guess hinges just like in M100s.

 oh my i certainly hope so, i've been sooo itching to pull the trigger on the m-80s when they went on discount 

 

the only thing stopping me was the fact that they stop stocking them (sounds like an upgrade happening) cross fingers

 

lack of isolation on most vmoda gear (m-100s,lps,lp2,m80) from user accounts. (and seeing their isolation graphs)

 

i need something for commuting purposes! (subway, trains buses)  cause if they look that good, you have to take them out!!! but if they don't isolate it defeats the purpose (thats why my noontec zoros feel so lonely at home)--> their stylish but don't isolate (but they look like fake beats too from others point of view, soo i hate that kind of feeling) 

post #17091 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicadraus View Post
 

 

So the rumor I heard a couple of days ago was actually true. :)

this makes me ecstatic!!! i'm dying for an upgrade!!!! not really but i wonder how they sound!!! 

post #17092 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonian View Post

Really?  Are you kidding?  

Lol my post came off as douchey and I apologize for that. I just love the sound of the original pads and saw no improvement with the XLs.
post #17093 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipper2gv View Post

Tested again today, and I'm afraid you are right (except for soundstage, still think the XL is better there). But, I find I lacked the grit and some details in the low mids and overall punch of the headphones. Still I know they aren't the right phones for metal, but there aren't good portable phones for metal around except some  IEM and I have fitting issues with them. It's not exactly a big deal for me since I didn't have any fit issues either.


Oh well, they still gonna be useful if I'm about to use them for a couple of hours straight.

If comfortable is an issue with the originals than the XLs are the way to go. I simply had no comfort issues with the originals due to my small ears. Perhaps that's also the reason music sounds to distant for me with the XLs. I simply love the in your face sound of the original pads. It's all preference at the end of the day.
post #17094 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post
 

I don't think that my post implies that at all.  I merely gave my interpretation of your post, and at no time did I act as if I was speaking for everyone.  

 

Your exact words were "that's not how it came across." 

 

Since I wasn't speaking to you, and would rather give myself a home vasectomy than speak to you unless you chose to address me by name, as here, the correct inference is that's not how it came across to those whom I was addressing, which would effectively mean everyone.

 

Quote:

My post was not intended to be a joke.  That said, it was certainly not an attack, as you seem to have taken it.  Man, I have my own opinion about who needs to lighten up here.

 

Your exact words were these --

 

Quote:
 nor was my post intended to be as serious as you make it out to be

 

-- in response to my comment --

 

Quote:
It was a joke, mein Speakerphile, just as "enduring pain for the sake of an aesthetic ideal" is humorous hyperbole.  

 

-- which was a response to this:

Quote:
I don't think people are "enduring pain for the sake of an aesthetic ideal" so much as maybe a varying degree of discomfort for a more pleasurable listening experience.  It's not quite as vain as you make it out to be.  It is no more out of the ordinary, in my opinion, than enduring a difficult hike to experience an exceptional view.

 

You may dance around honest disclosure all you like, but your comment was no more "unserious" than my response implied you'd made an "attack." Telling me to lighten up after you'd responded to my initial joke with what an old friend used to call seriosity seems a wee Hank hypocritical.

 

However, your choice to continue this exchange suggests you are in fact serious and feel that everything I say must be answered.  Clearly, lightness won't reach the cave of unreason where you plan vendettas against those who take the name of Best Buy in vain.  

"Ah, but you, too, seem invested in this exchange, Scrypt!"

 

Yes, I do, because I know its history and I want it to stop on those terms rather than yours or mine.

 

Quote:

 **Disclaimer**  The above statement is intended to be an expression of my own opinion.  At no point should you to interpret this as the opinion at large, or the opinion of Head-Fi as a community.

 

It's a bit late for that (see above).

 

Let's be clear, Speakerphile:

 

On an earlier thread, I criticized Best Buy.  You happen to work for Best Buy.  You didn't like what I said.  From that point on, you've been trolling my posts.

 

Let's be clear about something else: 

 

I don't find your responses interesting or helpful and it's clear you don't care for mine either.  Which means that, effectively, there's no reason for us to talk except to argue pointlessly.

 

So instead of targeting the foont with the "colorful" (your word) posting style, why don't you do the publicly conscientious thing and ignore my posts on various threads as I've been ignoring yours?  I won't respond to your posts and you can do me the same courtesy by not replying to mine.

 

If you won't do that, then at least be honest and declare that you think I'm full of tainted potash and have made it your mission to point that out wherever I happen to blather.

 

Either way, to continue would be to martyr the collective attention span.  In the name of verbal mercy, let's assume that other members haven't found the continuation of this exchange any more interesting than I have -- and that's an assumption based not on reading other people's thoughts but on posting thoughts worth reading.

 

And all because of a post that was so clearly intended to be a joke that the founder and owner of this very site would tell you as much if he even noticed we were talking at all.


Edited by scrypt - 10/16/13 at 12:16am
post #17095 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closingracer View Post
 

But Just buy them directly from V-moda.com they should ship to Finland and the 60 day test guarantee should be able to send it back to them

 

Doing so I would pay roughly $60 in shipping costs alone for back n forth to US. It's also much cheaper ordering from amazon Italy (cheapest amazon price) at like 217 EUR only (= $293 with TAX + shipping incl) compared to maybe 325-$329 (+ probably 23% custom fees) = ~$405 ordering from v-moda. So 60-day garantuee in all its glory, I don't see ordering from V-Moda directly as an option for an european or well a very foolish option if nothing else. :p


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 10/16/13 at 2:23am
post #17096 of 20897

After spending more time with the XL pads, I would say the sonic changes, grading on a scale of 1 to 10 are a wash based on pluses and minuses for various genres which I would say as objectively as I can is an "8.5" based on my subjective listening experience of headphones in all price ranges.  The real benefit is the comfort which was the #1 reason why Val developed them.  I would say comfort went from a "6" to a "9".  Also, it's not like the XL pads completely change the character of the M-100 as I enjoy their sound more than any other in their price range with either pads.  For reference regarding my point scale, I give the Ultrasone Signature DJ, which retails at 3X the price, as a "9.5" on sound and an "8" on comfort.

 

I spent some time at the Apple Store with the B&O H6 comparing with the M-100 as I have been reading about the amazing detail of the B&O.  The two headphones are on opposite ends of the spectrum.  The B&O was bass anemic in comparison, although bass was tight and accurate.  Regarding "detailed" cans, my ears interpret them as harsh, tinny highs that are as enjoyable as nails on a chalkboard.  Even vocals sounded unnaturally shrill.  I can't imagine any fan of the M-100 also enjoying the B&O- nothing wrong with that, just different strokes for different folks.

 

One quick comment regarding Best Buy:  While they don't stock many of the high end headphones Head-fiers rave about, they have more headphones available at their listening stations than any retailer, chain or specialty, in the Philadelphia metropolitan area, including the Apple store.  They also regularly redesign their listening stations to add new models, so I applaud their efforts at recognizing and tapping into the growing headphone market.


Edited by Craigster75 - 10/16/13 at 3:40am
post #17097 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster75 View Post
 

I spent some time at the Apple Store with the B&O H6 comparing with the M-100 as I have been reading about the amazing detail of the B&O.  The two headphones are on opposite ends of the spectrum.  The B&O was bass anemic in comparison, although bass was tight and accurate.  Regarding "detailed" cans, my ears interpret them as harsh, tinny highs that are as enjoyable as nails on a chalkboard.  Even vocals sounded unnaturally shrill.  I can't imagine any fan of the M-100 also enjoying the B&O- nothing wrong with that, just different strokes for different folks.

My thoughts exactly: unnatural sounds and anemic bass.

post #17098 of 20897

yes,This company seems like something special, and the product seems like it will be worth the wait.

31.gif

post #17099 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrypt View Post
 

 

Your exact words were "that's not how it came across." 

 

Since I wasn't speaking to you, and would rather give myself a home vasectomy than speak to you unless you chose to address me by name, as here, the correct inference is that's not how it came across to those whom I was addressing, which would effectively mean everyone.

 

 

Your exact words were these --

 

 

-- in response to my comment --

 

 

-- which was a response to this:

 

It's a bit late for that (see above).

 

Let's be clear, Speakerphile:

 

On an earlier thread, I criticized Best Buy.  You happen to work for Best Buy.  You didn't like what I said.  From that point on, you've been trolling my posts.

 

Let's be clear about something else: 

 

I don't find your responses interesting or helpful and it's clear you don't care for mine either.  Which means that, effectively, there's no reason for us to talk except to argue pointlessly.

 

So instead of targeting the foont with the "colorful" (your word) posting style, why don't you do the publicly conscientious thing and ignore my posts on various threads as I've been ignoring yours?  I won't respond to your posts and you can do me the same courtesy by not replying to mine.

 

If you won't do that, then at least be honest and declare that you think I'm full of tainted potash and have made it your mission to point that out wherever I happen to blather.

 

Either way, to continue would be to martyr the collective attention span.  In the name of verbal mercy, let's assume that other members haven't found the continuation of this exchange any more interesting than I have -- and that's an assumption based not on reading other people's thoughts but on posting thoughts worth reading.

 

And all because of a post that was so clearly intended to be a joke that the founder and owner of this very site would tell you as much if he even noticed we were talking at all.

Let it go, man.  I have not been trolling your posts.  That fact that we argued once and we now disagree again, does not a vendetta make.  And just because I may support on principle something that Best Buy does in no way means that I came to that conclusion because of my employer.  I realize that is a convenient way to discount my opinion, but it certainly does not invalidate what I choose to post.  I do, after all, post under my own name and not that of my employer.  I may, at times, choose not to say something negative about them, but that doesn't mean that I would support them in something I didn't believe in or agree with.  So in the future if we find ourselves at odds about my employer, know that I really do believe what I say and that I am not just towing the company line.  Are we done now?  I didn't actually have an issue with you, but feel free to ignore my posts if you feel they are of no interest or value.  

post #17100 of 20897
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Lawn View Post
 

I disagree.  I believe that instrument separation has taken a hit with the XLs. People are confusing the increase in distance between the ear and driver for an increase in sound stage. In reality, its just an increase in distance from the source of sound. To me, the instruments seems to bleed into each other as the sound must travel a further distance to reach your ear drum. With the originals, your ear is much closer to the driver, which gives the sound more clarity, and the instruments more distinction. I also disagree with the mids being marginally recessed. I see them more as drowned out due to the more pronounced lows (the thump you're referring to) as well as the distance between the ear and driver. The mids take a major hit. The punchy bass that the old ones were known for has become more of a loose boomy bass with the XLs. The highs become less fatiguing which is definitely a pro for the XLs. That's why genres such as Heavy Metal and Hard Rock may sound better with the XL pads. But if you're looking for metal/rock headphones, you're looking at the wrong brand. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone with small ears that do not protrude my  head at all. I had no comfort with the original pads. From a sound standpoint, I just see no strong argument for why the XLs sound better.

 

Just compare the song "Stan" by Eminem with the Regulars and XLs. The acoustic guitar in the background during the verse is much more pronounced with the old pads. With the XLs, it seem too distant. The vocal clarity also takes a major hit with the XLs. WIth the regulars, it felt like Eminem was talking into your ear. With the XLs, the vocals become too distant and lose clarity. The bass in the song becomes looser and more boomy, and it bleeds into the drum track in the background. 

 

If you're looking for a more relaxed and distant sound, the XLs are great. If you're looking for a more engaging and intimate experience with your music, the Old Pads are the way to go. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Lawn View Post

If comfortable is an issue with the originals than the XLs are the way to go. I simply had no comfort issues with the originals due to my small ears. Perhaps that's also the reason music sounds to distant for me with the XLs. I simply love the in your face sound of the original pads. It's all preference at the end of the day.

 

It was very interesting to read your opinion and views :) It sounds to me that you are mainly describing a relative change in sound due to the distance of the driver from your ear. However, that distance is different for every user. Since the size of people's ears and sound signature preferences are different, I would think that it would be hard to make any generalized claims about the sound quality of the earpads. I think that your comments about the relative changes between the two earpads is very detailed and informative, but also probably very subjective as well. The more intimate, in-your-face sound that you talk about seem to be just due to the drivers being closer to your ears, just as you say the perceived increased sound-stage is from the drivers being farther from your ears.

 

I agree that if you have no comfort issues, there is no reason (in my mind) to switch pads. However, if the old pads don't fit and your ear gets discomfort after a few hours of wearing, I think the new pads give the headphones better sound because when the headphones were tuned, presumably the sound engineers did not experience fit problems so the tuned distance between the driver & their ear using regular earpads would be equivalent to a user with bigger ears and the XL earpads. It's all relative.

 

Edit Note: Also, I personally think that the sonic changes between the XL pads and regular pads are most likely so small that you would not be able to tell which pad was on in a blind test. I say this because I used to have two V-Moda M-100s and I did an extreme paper towel mod of one and left the other pad regular and experimented with my friends to see if we could tell the difference consistently. We could not. If anyone has two V-Moda M100 and would like to do blind tests with the XL pad and regular pad, I would love to see your conclusions.


Edited by money4me247 - 10/16/13 at 7:38am
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