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V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 832

post #12466 of 20988

FR CURVE WARNINGS

Quick note on FR curves: even the best artificial heads can't  consider YOUR concha (mids), seal (bass), direction (highs), ergonomics and  your ear or fit for comfort. So take them with a grain of salt.  We only use them for comparisons in our different revisions and QC purposes such as testing variances from unit to unit and tracking (L/R variances).  It has VERY little to do with the sound.


We use them a lot in development but only test with real ears and lots of them, the best in the biz (my team and you!).  My team listens very carefully and we then try to GUESS the FR curve afterwards.  Many times we are wrong, but our EARS hear different.  

 

In fact, we had a M-100 that MEASURED way better in testing that "looked" perfectly flat.  But it sounded really bad in comparison to our "golden unit".  I still have it, I can demo it sometime and show you the FR curve vs final MP units.  Sometimes consumers/reviewers look at the FR first to make judgments, you need to AB test and listen THEN draw what you think the curve is by hand.  Then you compare it to the machine.   Check out even Reviewed.com and InnerFidelity and how high they rank M-100/LP2 by ear. 

 

It is crazy how many times it is off!    I need to build a better FR machine someday that considers 20+ ears/head shapes and averages them out for "greatest sound for greatest people".


"THE FIT IS THE SOUND"

 

-V


Edited by valkolton - 2/22/13 at 3:27am
Reply
post #12467 of 20988

Yes there will always be exceptions and there's so many factors to take into account but I'm mostly talking relative average pricing here as that's the only thing that you truly can compare with. Relative pricing would be taking say random 25 or 50 or whatever well known headphones sold on both for example amazon.com and amazon.de (and compare only with the amazon seller pricing not the various other smaller etailers listed there as those can vary so much in price) and then take the average price out of all those 50 headphones and then you should get a good comparision of how european vs american pricing compares in average. :P I'm a person that always look at "average" values.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 2/22/13 at 3:29am
post #12468 of 20988
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

Yes there will always be exceptions and there's so many factors to take into account but I'm mostly talking relative average pricing here as that's the only thing that you truly can compare with. Relative pricing would be taking random 50 well known headphones sold on both for example amazon.com and amazon.de (and compare only with the amazon seller pricing not the various other smaller etailers listed there as those can vary so much in price) and then take the average price out of all those 50 headphones and then you should get a good comparision of how european vs american pricing compares in average. :P

 

Do we consider the prices that are killed by grey market goods crossing borders in EU!  LOL...  Headphones are a bad example IMO, I like to use a variety of Apple products, Bose, currency and our real costs primarily.  We HAVE overpriced products in UK before and it killed our sales, so we don't want to do it again!

 

PS - As a family owned business, all V-MODA profit goes back into new product development and using the best materials in the world vs wasting $ on too much marketing. So we appreciate your support as we don't have outside investors and want to keep it that way to stay "boutique" and create unique products others can't due to quarterly earnings and pure profit-driven goals.

 

-V


Edited by valkolton - 2/22/13 at 3:33am
Reply
post #12469 of 20988

Ahh yea you're right about headphones not being great for comparing europe vs american pricing, as a computer hardware enthusiast I found computer hardware to be much better for that but if we want to compare headphone pricing then obviously would want to look at headphones only.

 

Don't worry though it's just me being hypercritical and getting the feeling that european customers comes 2nd hand due to high pricing and lower availability but that's perfectly natural in this case as a family owed company and based in the US it's impossible for you to expand your business over the globe as much as you'd probably want as there's not the resources etc yet.

 

I do love what you're doing with the business, focusing on the right things and doing the right decisions what I can see "from the outside". Therefore I tend to like small family owed business as one critical key for success tend to be cooperating much with the customer base. Another fine example of this is the small portable headphone company with the rather unique product there, I'm talking about digiZoid and well probably you can add FiiO too. They are listening a lot to customer feedback and suggestions. digiZoid opened up a "digiZoid customer programme" where basicly the chosen people are allowed to state opinions/discuss about what should be added/changed and the participants will also be betatesting products in future etc.

 

As a customer there's nothing more satisfying than being part in developing a future product you want to buy


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 2/22/13 at 3:54am
post #12470 of 20988

Damn...that was a great little "pow wow" you guys had. Lol

 

Very informative. beerchug.gif

post #12471 of 20988

Result! Amazon have agreed to change my order to the Matte Black so looks like my M100s are finally coming on the weekend! :D I'll be joining you fine people in audio joy soon!

post #12472 of 20988
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

 

I am going to open up the books here, something I've never done before, something NO consumer company has ever done that I know of.  The Boom Mic COST is about $7.70 BEFORE it is shipped to warehouse and duties are paid.  When we add the shipping plus duties, it is about $9 or more if we ocean freight them.  Then we have to ship them to the customer and pay for that (either wholesale or end user, processing etc).   This doesn't count the overhead in managing this or design/engineers.  When we air freight them it is A LOT more, like $2-3 per unit at least I believe.  

 

Therefore, with the retailer margins it is hard to hit $20 - $30 and be profitable as retailers want a LOT of $ for margin you can imagine (one of the reasons we don't sell too much retail in USA bc our materials cost too much to hit pricepoints).   I will work with the team to see what can be done to cost it down in the future without hurting quality now that the NRE is finished (non-recurring engineering costs).  


Trust me, I want it to be $25-30 as well but we need to keep in business.  If we sell a lot, we can definitely get a lower cost!  

 

I'll talk to team before launch... stay tuned!

 

As far as DDXL pads go, they'll be same price as our other memory foam cushions, $15.  We get an economies of scale price on these bc we make so many - even though the materials come from other countries so it has a LLT (long lead time) to build.  That is why I cautioned on how long it'll take.

 

EUROPE UPDATE

V-MODA M-100s and others are now landing in Amazon EU, so you can buy them quickly.  We also ship to Europe, Latin America and all over the world from V-MODA.com except to Asia where you can buy them in most stores as online isn't as big.  We will have Europe direct sales and customs shipping from Italy or Netherlands in late April/early May so it'll be very fast shipping from V-MODA.com just like in the USA.  

 

M-100 on Amazon UK, DE, France

V-MODA.com

 

Cheers,


Val

 

 

Val,

 

This, along with the other information you've been completely open and honest about, and the fact that the M-100 is a very impressive headphone has pretty much made me a customer for life as long as these things stay a priority for you. I know we all appreciate you coming here and sharing your time and information with us.  I will continue to purchase your future product releases and am sure that with the kind of passion that you have for them, they'll continue to impress and be more than worth the price paid.

 

I'm going to pre-order the boom mic and some shields from you guys in the near future.  One thing is for sure, I'll keep coming back to VMODA to see what you guys are up to. :)

 

Thanks again and keep it up!

post #12473 of 20988

Hey Val.

 

I remember in the early days of the M-100s development when you were polling us about which color schemes you should release them in and you were really pulling for Phantom Chrome. At that point, I had only seen Phantom Chrome in pictures and I thought it looked cheap and gaudy. From V-MODA's pictures alone, I still do. But lately I've been seeing Crossfade LPs all over NYC and, in person, the Phantom Chrome is absolutely BEAUTIFUL! I think if you plan on adding another color to the M-100 line-up, I'm for Phantom Chrome all the way. Maybe seeing them set up as demo units may sway the uneducated consumer away from your plasticky competitors.

 

Glad to see you back on Head-Fi!

post #12474 of 20988
^ I don't know if I "told you so," but I did make it a point during the Pre-release days that I was surprised and impressed with the look in real life. Glad I'm not the only one who changed his/her mind once gaining some "in-person" time.

My Phantom Chrome LPs are... somewhere... I still hold on to hope that I find them. I also have the Apple device cable, lol, I took out one of the Velcro pouches before losing the case+headphones.
Edited by Evshrug - 2/22/13 at 8:00am
post #12475 of 20988
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

 

PS - As a family owned business, all V-MODA profit goes back into new product development and using the best materials in the world vs wasting $ on too much marketing. So we appreciate your support as we don't have outside investors and want to keep it that way to stay "boutique" and create unique products others can't due to quarterly earnings and pure profit-driven goals.

 

-V

Wow, really? if what you say is true...that is badass.

 

V-MODA is over 9000

post #12476 of 20988

Whoa this thread exploded once again...have to go back and read everything.

post #12477 of 20988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

^ I don't know if I "told you so," but I did make it a point during the Pre-release days that I was surprised and impressed with the look in real life. Glad I'm not the only one who changed his/her mind once gaining some "in-person" time.
 

The pictures do not help them at all. It's like seeing current pictures of Cameron Diaz without make- up on compared to seeing Cameron Diaz in "The Mask."

post #12478 of 20988
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDWULF View Post

Wow, really? if what you say is true...that is badass.

 

V-MODA is over 9000

Seems true enough.  The M100 is the most well made headphone I think I've ever seen or used or held.

post #12479 of 20988
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderNhan View Post

The pictures do not help them at all. It's like seeing current pictures of Cameron Diaz without make- up on compared to seeing Cameron Diaz in "The Mask."

Sigh...

I miss mine:
post #12480 of 20988

Oh the boom mic has a y adapter with it...very nice very nice...still have to use an extension for the audio out to my amp...anyone know if all these interconnects will effect sound quality???...headphone->Y adapter->extension->line out on pc

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