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V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 831

post #12451 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


Well, if price is a concern, you can eBay a used DSS for $25-$30 instead of the Mixamp, or the Recon3D like I have which cost half the price of the Mixamp, or you could buy the Tritton 720+ and sell the crappy bundled headphone to someone you don't like (I do not endorse that last option).
And really, do you have a wireless gaming headset and the M-100? If so, are you reeeeeally going to type that you wouldn't much rather be listening to the M-100? I've tested the TBs and read a lot about Trittons and Astros. They're targeted as mainstream, high visibility products, not as value leaders or quality classics. Harsh trebles, poorly defined bass, weird ergonomics (durability & earpad comfort? Whats up with the nylon pads?) and generally unrefined compared to the headphones we get excited about on Head-Fi daily, like the M-100, or the AD700 and Q701 I have

Also, you said again that a headphone with detachable cables was necessary to add a mic. What? No, you just wire a mic straight to the controller or PC mic port (sorry PS3 gamers, I'm not as familiar with working a mic into your setup, but there are posts about it). I bought a 3-pack of cheap lapel mics for $4 and a generic 2.5mm--->3.5mm adapter for the Xbox controller for $3, and my voice is just as clear/loud in voice messages as the TB mics playing back in my XBL party, and I don't have a thingie in my face picking up my breathing. In no way less convenient than a "dedicated" gaming headset that still has to be plugged into the Xbox controller and console.

AD700 ($80) + mic ($7 total) + Recon3D ($70-$80) = my current Xbox setup = $157, better soundstage, sound-"hunting" ( wink.gif ), PC + Xbox. Sometimes I rotate in my Q701 for an even better experience, though I want an M-100 and I think the boom mic will work just as well. These headphones can't even be touched by the harsh sounding gaming headsets, unless you're talking about the (still poor value to add a mic) Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic headsets. And you still get the benefits of virtual surround... If that's not important (and isn't included on most gaming headsets), then a $2 RCA to 3.5mm adapter and a cheap amp like the FiiO E6 is all you need.

How are "dedicated" gaming headsets more convenient or a better choice for some people compared to great headphones with also great SQ value?

 

lol... I was just pointing out the fact that instead of buying the V-moda Boom Mic Pro (now priced at $40) + AstroMixamp ($130) specifically as a previous poster mentioned (total $170), you can legitimately purchase a perfectly nice wireless surround sound gaming headset for around $130. I just thought it was funny how the price of that specific setup to get your favorite pair of headphones to work with a console is more than a gaming headset with every feature you could possibly want.

 

The benefit of having a gaming headset & a separate pair of headphones is if your sibling/spouse/friend wants to listen to music or play video games, you still have another pair of headphones. I feel like having a gaming headset is similar to purchasing noise-canceling or bluetooth or sweat-proof headphones. You are looking at other features besides just sound quality per dollar. There are gaming headsets with good value sound quality too (for example: SteelSeries Siberia V2)

 

Yea, your $160 set-up is also great value wired solution, and yes, I am sure that everyone here would probably prefer to listen to music on their wired audiophile-grade headphones. However, you can legit get a dedicated wired surround sound gaming headset for less than $80, and stereo sound for less than $50. Then, you could spend the extra $80-$110 you saved on a nicer pair of headphones for music listening. I feel like the only people who are specifically looking for surround sound headsets are competitive FPS players who don't care much about the game soundtrack. So yes, a dedicated gaming headset can be a great alternative for certain people.


Edited by money4me247 - 2/21/13 at 10:59pm
post #12452 of 21232

@Evshurg,

 

You bring up a really good point though about mics. Your mic solution is only $7, the most expensive chat-only xbox 360 headset I could find was $20, the attachable astro gaming mic & earpads are $20, the official xbox 360 bluetooth wireless chat-only headset for $30, and you can get some stereo gaming headsets for $40.

 

The V-moda Boom Mic Pro is a great idea and I am sure it will be a great product, but I still think $40 for a cable with a gaming mic attached is a bit steep no matter how well tuned or high quality they are... I personally think above $20 is pushing it. Now I am kinda scared to imagine what the price for the DD pads will be.

post #12453 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

@Evshurg,

 

You bring up a really good point though about mics. Your mic solution is only $7, the most expensive chat-only xbox 360 headset I could find was $20, the attachable astro gaming mic & earpads are $20, the official xbox 360 bluetooth wireless chat-only headset for $30, and you can get some stereo gaming headsets for $40.

 

The V-moda Boom Mic Pro is a great idea and I am sure it will be a great product, but I still think $40 for a cable with a gaming mic attached is a bit steep no matter how well tuned or high quality they are... I personally think above $20 is pushing it. Now I am kinda scared to imagine what the price for the DD pads will be.

How does a Zalman Zm-Mic1 mic do? I've seen it recommended a bunch of times, and it's a universal mic.

post #12454 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

@Evshurg,

 

You bring up a really good point though about mics. Your mic solution is only $7, the most expensive chat-only xbox 360 headset I could find was $20, the attachable astro gaming mic & earpads are $20, the official xbox 360 bluetooth wireless chat-only headset for $30, and you can get some stereo gaming headsets for $40.

 

The V-moda Boom Mic Pro is a great idea and I am sure it will be a great product, but I still think $40 for a cable with a gaming mic attached is a bit steep no matter how well tuned or high quality they are... I personally think above $20 is pushing it. Now I am kinda scared to imagine what the price for the DD pads will be.

 

I am going to open up the books here, something I've never done before, something NO consumer company has ever done that I know of.  The Boom Mic COST is about $7.70 BEFORE it is shipped to warehouse and duties are paid.  When we add the shipping plus duties, it is about $9 or more if we ocean freight them.  Then we have to ship them to the customer and pay for that (either wholesale or end user, processing etc).   This doesn't count the overhead in managing this or design/engineers.  When we air freight them it is A LOT more, like $2-3 per unit at least I believe.  

 

Therefore, with the retailer margins it is hard to hit $20 - $30 and be profitable as retailers want a LOT of $ for margin you can imagine (one of the reasons we don't sell too much retail in USA bc our materials cost too much to hit pricepoints).   I will work with the team to see what can be done to cost it down in the future without hurting quality now that the NRE is finished (non-recurring engineering costs).  


Trust me, I want it to be $25-30 as well but we need to keep in business.  If we sell a lot, we can definitely get a lower cost!  

 

I'll talk to team before launch... stay tuned!

 

As far as DDXL pads go, they'll be same price as our other memory foam cushions, $15.  We get an economies of scale price on these bc we make so many - even though the materials come from other countries so it has a LLT (long lead time) to build.  That is why I cautioned on how long it'll take.

 

EUROPE UPDATE

V-MODA M-100s and others are now landing in Amazon EU, so you can buy them quickly.  We also ship to Europe, Latin America and all over the world from V-MODA.com except to Asia where you can buy them in most stores as online isn't as big.  We will have Europe direct sales and customs shipping from Italy or Netherlands in late April/early May so it'll be very fast shipping from V-MODA.com just like in the USA.  

 

M-100 on Amazon UK, DE, France

V-MODA.com

 

Cheers,


Val


Edited by valkolton - 2/22/13 at 1:14am
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post #12455 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

@Evshurg,

 

You bring up a really good point though about mics. Your mic solution is only $7, the most expensive chat-only xbox 360 headset I could find was $20, the attachable astro gaming mic & earpads are $20, the official xbox 360 bluetooth wireless chat-only headset for $30, and you can get some stereo gaming headsets for $40.

 

The V-moda Boom Mic Pro is a great idea and I am sure it will be a great product, but I still think $40 for a cable with a gaming mic attached is a bit steep no matter how well tuned or high quality they are... I personally think above $20 is pushing it. Now I am kinda scared to imagine what the price for the DD pads will be.

 

I am going to open up the books here, something I've never done before.  The Boom Mic COST is about $7.70 BEFORE it is shipped to warehouse and duties are paid.  When we add the shipping plus duties, it is about $9 or more if we ocean freight them.  Then we have to ship them to the customer and pay for that (either wholesale or end user).   This doesn't count the overhead in managing this or design/engineers.  When we air freight them it is A LOT more, like $2-3 per unit at least I believe.

 

Therefore, with the retailer margins it is hard to hit $20 - $30 and be profitable.   I will work with the team to see what can be done to cost it down in the future without hurting quality now that the NRE is finished (non-recurring engineering costs).  


Trust me, I want it to be $25-30 as well but we need to keep in business.  If we sell a lot, we can definitely get a lower cost!  

 

I'll talk to team before launch... stay tuned!

 

As far as DDXL pads go, they'll be same price as our other memory foam cushions, $15.  We get an economies of scale price on these bc we make so many - even though the materials come from other countries so it has a LLT (long lead time) to build.  That is why I cautioned on how long it'll take.

 

EUROPE UPDATE

V-MODA M-100s and others are now landing in Amazon EU, so you can buy them quickly.  We also ship to Europe, Latin America and all over the world from V-MODA.com except to Asia where you can buy them in most stores as online isn't as big.  We will have Europe direct sales and customs shipping from Italy or Netherlands in late April/early May so it'll be very fast shipping from V-MODA.com just like in the USA.  

 

M-100 on Amazon UK, DE, France

V-MODA.com

 

Cheers,


Val

 

The fact that you disclose this kind of information is unique to consumer electronics and is much appreciated.

 

Can you give us any hints as to what Metallo may be?

post #12456 of 21232

Val, so pleased these are starting to ship in Europe and from Amazon UK, even better! Appreciate the update very much :)

 

Is there a shortage on the Shadow and White though? I notice only Matte Black is available? Should we expect a few more weeks until the other two colours show up or is it just an Amazon processing delay?

post #12457 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by hun009 View Post

Just got my m100 today, do anyone have some suggestion on the audio player app on iPhone ? The app which support flac is more welcomed:)
Capriccio works well and is free
post #12458 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyN View Post

Val, so pleased these are starting to ship in Europe and from Amazon UK, even better! Appreciate the update very much :)

 

Is there a shortage on the Shadow and White though? I notice only Matte Black is available? Should we expect a few more weeks until the other two colours show up or is it just an Amazon processing delay?

 

IN V-MODA VERITAS

Yup, Shadow and White are OOS (out of stock) and finish production ~Mar 15th and then take time to ship.  We keep each production batch small now to keep QC at the highest levels, also first runs usually have a lower yield (those that pass our crazy QC), this is why there were only 200 VTFs out of 600.  We don't like to "REV" sound or quality like other companies do, so we only build a very small batch at a time and monitor them like an OCD hawk.  This is why often competitor products when launch break or sound so bad, some competitors rev like 6-10 times and that isn't cool.  It is evidenced that they make "HD versions" (or worse change sound for better/worse and don't tell), don't send review units to editors until long after they are launched (if at all) and we send review units BEFORE launch bc we trust our quality and sound from day -60 because we use and beta test them so much.  

 

If professionals count on our equipment, we can't let them down!

 

QUALITY VS QUANTITY

If its one thing that I learned from my first product I ever built - QUANTITY OFTEN IS THE INVERSE OF QUALITY.   My first 33,000 Remix/Bass Freqs were all bad, the Bass Freqs sounded radically different from unit to unit (up to 30dB!!!!) and the Remix wasn't assembled correctly.  I had to send all the BF's back and even reworked the Remixes myself in my kitchen almost 8 years ago, trust me I have learned a lot over the years about building quality products!  Remember Audi/Hyundai back in the day had horrible quality issues and now they are among the best - we overcompensated with our new processes and engineering in the last 9 years. This is why it takes YEARS vs 3-6 months to make a V-MODA product.  There ain't no "software update" on hardware (ask ____ on ____  or _____ on their ____).  And we back it all up with the best customer service in the world that we improve daily, this should complete the six-star customer experience V-MODA stands for.   

 

I won't launch a product until I'd use it myself, and I am a VERY VERY VERY OCD and picky consumer.  One time, I bought the top of the line speaker (guess) and the woofer kept on going out and I had it replaced 3 times.  I disassembled it each time and saw how weak the glue was that was causing the issue.  I took photos and showed them the defect, on the 4th one they sent, it was different - they fixed it! 

 

COLOR TREND

We had a very strange trend, M-100 Matte Black sold almost 2x Shadow and white in the VTF orders.  So we planned accordingly using that data.  Strangely, after New Years the Shadow was outselling Matte Black.  Any ideas why?  We are puzzled.  My hypothesis is that the VTF and 2012 orders may have been more customs and Matte black works good with all color shields.  Very strange, this through off my projections.  But even then, we have only a few more weeks supply of Matte Blacks - but more are on the way and production is looking spectacular.

 

 

PPS - DD/XL CUSHION PROMO

I'll also brainstorm a promo for DD/XL cushions for those who want them once they come out, I think I have a good idea that you'll love if you bought an M-100 that makes them "virtually free*".  I'll run some numbers on my idea and update you closer to launch.

 

-V^V

 

EDIT: SNEAK PREVIEW FROM THE PHOTOSHOOT 

 

 


Edited by valkolton - 2/22/13 at 2:07am
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post #12459 of 21232

Why exactly is M100 sold for £270 / 310 EUR in europe? Isn't that a bit much? Usually comparing pricing in europe vs US on headphones the figures are lower in europe (comparing EUR). I was expecting M100 to be more like £249 GBP / 279 EUR. That's a pretty average european vs US headphone price comparision if US list price is 299 - $310, in some cases the difference can obviously be larger like for strong european brands such as Sony and Philips selling at very competitive pricing in europe.

 

For example Sony MDR-1R is sold for 204 EUR (~$270 USD) on amazon.de and $298 USD on amazon.com but that represents "best-case" (or worst case looking from the US perspective) european vs US pricing and obviously and I wouldn't expect V-Moda a not european based manufacturer to be able to offer such pricing but I'm just disappointed with the 310 EUR (=$410) vs $300 US pricing as that's the highest european pricing versus the US market I've seen on any headphone so far.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 2/22/13 at 2:43am
post #12460 of 21232
money4me247,
So long as you and others know I'm not trying to "make" you "wrong," I was just pointing out options. And you're right, I like to concentrate on SQ, which I realize isn't everyone's main thing, for example I wouldn't buy any current wireless headphones because I don't like the compromises, but wireless may be the only option considered by someone else (like someone with running kids).


Miceblue,
Honestly I haven't heard the zalman, thought about getting it myself to find out about which side of the very divided reviews I agreed with. QC may even vary on those (as Val has revealed about sample variation through his journal of battling for a consistently great product), though it seems the people with the most success are usually PC gamers who can really boost up the volume. A few people said it was too loud though, and so sensitive that it picked up the sound of someone picking their nose in the next room.
...
Ok exaggeration there, but it seems a few people like it fine, others hate it, overall it makes me trust it less.


Val,
Oh, I didn't mean to make you open the books. I know you need to get repaid for your R&D then make profit, I hope everyone else understands that too. The clip-ons I mentioned are cheap, and they're cheap. Thin wires, need extra adapters to work with Xbox, made in China, take 2 weeks to a month to arrive, and I was worried about QC so I bought a 3 pack. Sometimes people say I'm too quiet when the mic is clipped to my shirt (under my chin), so I dangle it from my headband over my face (much more embarrassing to admit that than opening the books IMO, heh ^_^'`). Of course it's just a mic so I can't use it with my phone or something. I really don't think they'd be quality for podcasting or singing.

I tried to think of downsides, and there are pros and cons, but I guess it is a reality that it's up to V-MODA to prove the boom mic is worth the asking price. I'm sure more people will see the boom mics than the rather obscure gaming solution I've found (notice I'm the only one in the thread who found 'em); the boom mic will be even more common IMO than the ModMic, and there's of course something to be said for completing the M-100 "set." A mic can be as much of an accessory as a pair of shields. The clip-ons work for me, a great solution as I've personally had to cut corners in almost every area of my life since college just to try to survive on near-minimum wage, but I might've gotten lucky, and the clip-ons won't be for everyone.
Edited by Evshrug - 2/22/13 at 2:42am
post #12461 of 21232
Quick question for you guys - which of the two reds available for the shields better/more closely match the red accents on the 'shadow' headphones?

Thanks guys
post #12462 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

Why exactly is M100 sold for £270 / 310 EUR in europe? Isn't that a bit much? Usually comparing pricing in europe vs US on headphones the figures are lower in europe (comparing EUR). I was expecting M100 to be more like £249 GBP / 279 EUR. That's a pretty average european vs US headphone price comparision if US list price is $310, in some cases the difference can obviously be larger like for strong european brands such as Sony and Philips selling at very competitive pricing in europe.

 

For example Sony MDR-1R is sold for 204 EUR (~$270 USD) on amazon.de and $298 USD on amazon.com but that represents "best-case" (or worst case looking from the US perspective) european vs US pricing.

 

Will look into it, good catch they just landed yesterday so we are finalizing the details.  For one, the ~20% VAT tax IS included in that price.  But M-100 should be 300 Eur.


Any volunteers to help make sure our translations of French, German, Spanish and Japanese are 1000% audio-industry correct?  PM me if you are fluent!  we have lots to translate and the translation companies just don't GET audio industry jargon.

 

-V


Edited by valkolton - 2/22/13 at 2:46am
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post #12463 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Val,
Oh, I didn't mean to make you open the books. I know you need to get repaid for your R&D then make profit, I hope everyone else understands that too. The clip-ons I mentioned are cheap, and they're cheap. Thin wires, need extra adapters to work with Xbox, made in China, take 2 weeks to a month to arrive, and I was worried about QC so I bought a 3 pack. Sometimes people say I'm too quiet when the mic is clipped to my shirt (under my chin), so I dangle it from my headband over my face (much more embarrassing to admit that than opening the books IMO, heh ^_^'`). Of course it's just a mic so I can't use it with my phone or something. I really don't think they'd be quality for podcasting or singing.
 

 

Oh, and just look at the original ID, somebody had to design it (me)!   All the tooling is ours, even the y-adapter is custom V-MODA. It even has the "VENI VIDI VICI"  3 Vs for the mic opening.  If I don't say so myself, this thing looks badass and is durable. The steelflex bend allows it to blend into the cable so you can wear it around without looking crazy either if you want.  Rotary volume + mute.  I think the only component we use off the shelf stock that I didn't design on our products is the actual zipper right now (not the zipper pull!) and the damn Carabiner.  I designed THREE new carabiners but I can't get the bandwidth to tool them yet.  Some day I'll build a unique carabiner but first I have to spell it right... (microsoft word has it WRONG in the dictionary FYI, check it out)

 

It has the 45 degree, strong cables and Y-adapter included.


PS - the performance is enhanced from the original VTFs...

 

 

 

 


Edited by valkolton - 2/22/13 at 3:01am
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post #12464 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

 

Will look into it.  For one, the ~20% VAT tax IS included in that price.  But M-100 should be 300 Eur.


Any volunteers to help make sure our translations of French, Italian, German, Spanish and Japanese are 1000% audio-industry correct?  PM me if you are fluent!

 

-V

 

Yes I'm aware of that living in the europe my whole life but I know how european and american pricing compares like as I've been following that in electronics in general for quite a while. Just stating 310 EUR / 250 EUR without VAT ($410 USD or $330 without VAT) vs $300 USD in the US market is the highest european pricing vs american pricing I've seen so far (OK except AKG Tiesto series). You can basicly order from over the seas from Vmoda.com as an european customer and pay the import duties and it will be roughly the same as buying from europe. Typically that would be a higher cost scenario when buying headphones and ordering from europe would be slightly cheaper.

 

Just saying normally european EUR vs american USD pricing doesn't compare 1:1 (don't account for the currency differences, I'm just talking strictly the figures) like in this case (except for next gen console launches appearently, eerrhm).


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 2/22/13 at 2:57am
post #12465 of 21232
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

 

Yes I'm aware of that living in the europe my whole life but I know how european and american pricing compares like as I've been following that in electronics in general for quite a while. Just stating 310 EUR / 250 EUR without VAT ($410 USD or $330 without VAT) vs $300 USD in the US market is the highest european pricing vs american pricing I've seen so far (OK except AKG Tiesto series). You can basicly order from over the seas from Vmoda.com as an european customer and pay the import duties and it will be roughly the same as buying from europe. Typically that would be a higher cost scenario when buying headphones and ordering from europe would be slightly cheaper.

 

Just saying normally european EUR vs american USD pricing doesn't compare 1:1 (don't account for the currency differences, I'm just talking strictly the figures) like in this case (except for next gen console launches appearently, eerrhm).

 

I agree, we need global parity of pricing in an internet world, but sometimes there are VATS, shipping and costs involved getting the product there that are costly. My VP Sales works on this daily with a basket of goods and we spend a lot of time on pricing.  We always monitor currency conversions too in our analysis and have to take into account the costs of doing business with our partners such as retailers and logistics.  Usually USA is cheaper for most goods I've found bc of the economies of scale here and less fragmented marketplace.

 

But, you can also buy from V-MODA.com and we'll ship quick and customize... Soon it'll ship from EU to EU and customer service will be there too for six-star support.  I'll continue to monitor this and I open V-MODA Milano April 1st so my team can get a real pulse on the EU marketplace (we already have a V-MODA Hong Kong office).

 

FYI - Prada and Dolce Gabbana are way cheaper in Milan than in US, Moscow it is like 30% higher than LA!  Pricing globally is a full time job with so many variables per country.

 


Edited by valkolton - 2/22/13 at 3:14am
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