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V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 9

post #121 of 20972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

I would assume the M100s were competing more directly with the DT1350, although offering a different sound. The DT1350s run under $300. I don't know anything about the Amperior sound-wise but it just looks like a metal HD25 with an iPhone cable; another rebrand attempt by Sennheiser.



Why would you assume that a full-size headphone is designed to compete against a smaller/portable headphone?  I believe the M80s were designed to go head to head with the models you mentioned.  So, perhaps, Val would think since he's already addressed the audiophile crowd seeking something portable that now he should focus on something not quite as portable.

 

Anyway, I sure hope Val chimes in soon.  All this speculation will be for naught when he comes back and says he changed his mind and is deciding to turn the M100s into IEMs instead :P

post #122 of 20972

*shrug* It's up to him, obviously.

I suppose they may wind up succumbing to the Coxster syndrom...

post #123 of 20972

Keep on talking without my input... I'll make it fit what ya'll want collectively, I have until Feb 24 to LOCK IT IN!  You are the customer, and your always right so the more input the better, without me!!!  Seriously, even when it's wrong for the greater good, everybody is different. 

 

My #1 goal is best sound wo amp for M-100 and future products in the M-Series, but some of the BEST sound in the world with one.  Go to Amazon, type headphones and click "sort by user rating".  I think we're pretty good at it based on our scientific lab approach in my "greatest sound for greatest amount of people" without an amp...  Go to Newegg.com, click headphones and sort by top rated....  Any guesses of what prod or what # are we out of 14,300+ headphones?   

 

It seems the bass heavy does do the trick for the masses, head-fi is different though - which is why I'm keenly loving ALL input.  I need genres, source, amp feedback.   

 

M-80 was our first in this space although it was in R&D for 5 years, I think we nailed it just about right for our target audience!

 

-v


Edited by valkolton - 2/1/12 at 10:22pm
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post #124 of 20972


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

My #1 goal is best sound wo amp for M-100 and future products in the M-Series, but some of the BEST sound in the world with one.  


That's what I thought you meant when you said M100 unamped < M80:  Not that the M100 would sound less than terrific unamped, but that they would be built to glisten and glow even more with an amp, surpassing the M80 and revealing their ultimate potential. 

 

Too much difference is being attributed to your less than value, correct?  The sound quality wouldn't be that much less exciting.

 

Quote:

It seems the bass heavy does do the trick for the masses, head-fi is different though - which is why I'm keenly loving ALL input.  I need genres, source, amp feedback.   


-v

 

But I don't think that formula accounts for the popularity of the M80.  The bass is notched a bit, but it's the clarity, balance and upper register that seem to have won so much positive attention. 

 

Definitely you don't want to put out a product that lacks bass plugged directly into a standard portable source.  In that sense, your popular user base has to be taken into consideration.  Before the Beats, I'd have argued those people aren't going to spend $200 or more on headphones anynonce.

 

Then again, I've yet to meet a great DJ who uses Beats.  I'm open to the idea they exist, but I've never met one personally. 

 

My understanding is that you want to find the perfect spot between popular taste, musicians' style (sonically and visually) and audiophile scrutiny. 

 

The tangy spot's still out there, which is an indication that being you and striving to nail it must be a lot of fun, not that your track record's in question.

 


Edited by scrypt - 2/2/12 at 12:55am
post #125 of 20972

Since consumer/customer opinion is appreciated by Val I'm happy to offer my thoughts...

As I mostly use headphones while out and about (though I prefer In-Ears while walking) I do not want to carry any extra luggage (i.e. an amp) with me. On the go I mostly listen to electronic dance music, nevertheless I prefer a more balanced sound: the M-80 I recently purchased are fun cans, though almost too much bass for my taste (anything more than that or loosing structure and / or depth would not appeal to me).

 

Comparing the M80 to the DT1350 I prefer the overall more balanced sound of the latter, loving their quite flat, deep reaching bass and overall very analytic sound. I very much enjoy the sensibility of the M-80s, giving me more headroom using an iPhone 4S as my source (never listening loud though). As I'm using headphones in public places to supply background music for working (i.e. sitting at coffee bars) I prefer the vastly better isolation of the DT1350.

 

Compared with the P5 I prefer the M-80 soundwise (while I still like the look of the P5 very much): better structured bass, much better treble, much more engaging sound overall.

 

What I'm really missing is swivelling earpieces, but I guess the M-100s would have that particular feature, especially as they are supposed to fold flat as I understand (another very important thing to me as I would carry them around quite a bit). The M-80s are sitting with minimal clamp, nevertheless my ears start to hurt after about 90min -- I guess due to the uneven pressure applied to different parts of my ears. Which is why I'm looking for around-the-ear phones with good portability...

 

Regarding the discussion whether an amp is acceptable or not: I'm fine with a bigger phone needing an amp to realize its full potential. It would be a showstopper for me if an amp were required for operation. I would not mind the M-100 having a bit less bass overall without an amp as long as the mids and treble stay at M-80 level -- I'd actually prefer that sound signature. So comparing to the M-80s saying 'less than' keeps me asking for details: what exactly makes it inferior? Loss of detail would be bad in my taste, loss of bass quite to the contrary...

 

As to competing against Beats: these are sold by marketing, not quality. Their main customer base chooses them as a status symbol, not by (sound) quality... The would not change their mind by listening as that is not their main reason for making a decision. Yes, they might be able to hear it but to most of them that is just irrelevant: no 'b' on them, no standing in their own social space... Trying to compete by offering better SQ is a waste of time I guess: the LP/LP2 (based on what I read about their sound signature) supported by celebrity marketing might be perfect for that clientele.

 

So the main features in favor of the M-100s for me:

*) cirum-aural design, folding flat for transport: check

*) "audiophile" sound signature even without an amp (nice bonus to be able to boost SQ with an amp though)

*) durable construction: check

*) cable with mic/iphone remote: check

 

Looking good so far I'd say ;-)

post #126 of 20972

 

 

Quote:
It seems the bass heavy does do the trick for the masses, head-fi is different though - which is why I'm keenly loving ALL input.  I need genres, source, amp feedback.   

does do the trick to increase benefits -->pass-by bassheads-->,not so much in the head-fi community,im pretty sure around here there are more people wanting flat response (maybe a tiny accentuation on the low spectrum) than people hearing trance,dubstep,disco all the time.

but obviously the market is bigger than our internet I.P. meeting point.

post #127 of 20972

I would love to have swivelling cirum-aural cups and flat-folding as well.

However, did Val confirm the flat-folding feature? I must have missed that if he did.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plakat View Post

snipped

 

What I'm really missing is swivelling earpieces, but I guess the M-100s would have that particular feature, especially as they are supposed to fold flat as I understand (another very important thing to me as I would carry them around quite a bit).

 

snipped

 

 

*) cirum-aural design, folding flat for transport: check

 

 

snipped

 



 

 

post #128 of 20972
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

I would love to have swivelling cirum-aural cups and flat-folding as well.

However, did Val confirm the flat-folding feature? I must have missed that if he did.


 

 

Nope, no confirmation yet!  basshead.gif

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post #129 of 20972

Time to chime in. My first post since joining - and interestingly I joined because of V-Moda.

 

Long story made short. I am in Ottawa, Canada. and could not make a purchase when I decided to buy for my son for Christmas. Fortunately a fellow head-fi was selling a pair of v-80 which I purchased and received just before Christmas. What a great gift it was for my son who was 15 and is now 16. I hope the distribution to Canada gets improved. ( No online distributor of the v-80, all I could find from vmoda web site was a wholesaler of the LP)

 

Back to the headphones, the sound was very pleasing, except for the on ear I would have purchased for myself. I am now waiting for the m-100. The 80 is a great headphone they have 4 out of 5 things I look for. 1) musical ie. instruments sound accurate the sound resonate like a real instrument 2) attack time 3) good highs 4) quality build, 5) balance - i think the balance of the highs, mids and lows was a little off. I really liked them the whole package.

 

Thank-you Val, as a polite Canadian, I must thank you. I was following one of your threads and learned about the J3 as a source. I had to look it up and of course the rest is history. The cowon j3 is absolutely stunning. It has allowed me to hear more of the music and I do appreciate the built in equalizer. ( not sure if this is considered an amp or if a portable amp would add to the sound) I think the new m-100 will be a wonderful match with the J3. The J3 and a good set of headphones has brought back HiFi to me an old timer, I thought my HiFi days were behind me. Thanks again.

 

In waiting I have purchased the Alessandro MS2, it is tough to pry the v-80 from my son to make a comparison. Both fine products and unique in there approach and sound. I am hoping the m-100 will be a combo of the v80 and the ms2.

 

best regards

post #130 of 20972
Quote:
Originally Posted by valkolton View Post

 

My #1 goal is best sound wo amp for M-100 and future products in the M-Series, but some of the BEST sound in the world with one.  

 

This is exactly the right goal to have, and I think it will please the widest audience, as well. Win-win.

 

post #131 of 20972

I'm very interested in what these headphones will become. Obviously a lot of other people are too.

 

I'm a college student who is looking for portable circumaural headphones. The thing is, I've done tons of research and have reached the conclusion that ultimately there is no such thing as truly portable circumaurals currently on the market. Here's a quick look at why essentially everything fails to meet all my no-compromise preferences:

 

1) They have to be circumaural. Supra aurals are incredibly uncomfortable to me. This eliminates a huge percentage of "portable" options.

2) The cable has to be of reasonable "portable" length. I was seriously considering the Koss Pro DJ100 until I found out that the cable is far too long (and not detachable). This alone has made me cross off a number of other options like the MDR-V6.

3) Light weight. I would be a LP2 owner right now if they didn't weigh 260g. To me, portable phones need to be relatively lightweight. I know that is subjective, but I cringe when people will suggest phones like the DT 770s to people who want portable phones. I have KRK KNS 8400s in my dorm room, which are full-sized circumaurals that KRK had no intentions of making at all portable. Despite the fact that they are not at all meant to be portable, they weigh only 230 g. If a company wants to make "portable" circumaurals, they better at least weigh less than damn phones that have no aspirations to be deemed "portable". I know 260 g isn't that bad, but it can easily be beat if a company really wants to make a set portable.

4) Sound good without amp. Reading through this whole thread, it's clear that people have very different opinions on this. Here's mine: I don't care in the least if the M-100s will sound better with an amp. All I do care about is that they sound good without an amp. Sounds great without an amp and amazing with an amp? To me that's boss and the perfect goal. (This is another requirement that helped to rule out choices like the DJ100s).

5) No damn flying buttresses. I HATE flying buttresses. It's the only reason my 8400s are a dorm-room-only phone and ones that I never take around campus. A form fitting look is an absolute must. The Denon AH-D1100 seemed like the PERFECT headphones for me: 180g practically had me wetting my pants. Light-check. Circumaural-check. Short cable-check. Sound good without amp-check. They seemed perfect. Then I looked at pictures of them. "F***. Why the f*** do companies make headphones that are the perfect portable circumaurals in every way other than the damn flying buttresses!" (my reaction). I cannot in any way grasp how these companies think that they can call their flying buttress-marred creations portable. Creative Aurvana Lives (basically D1100s) also fail here.

 

Any currently existing headphones that satisfy 1-4 fail 5. Any headphones that satisfy 2-5 fail 1 (these form the "sorta circumaural" group into which headphones such as the Phiaton MS 400, some of the other Phiatons, ATH WS-55, FA-004, and the like fall). I am an obsessive researcher and there is literally nothing in the higher end market which satisfies every requirement 1-5 that is in my opinion necessary to deem a headphone "portable". The funny thing is that I've found a few cheap ass headphones that do satisfy every requirement I have, and it almost makes me laugh in anguish at how pathetic my situation is.

 

If the M-100s can satisfy 1-5, not only will V-Moda have my money, they will have what I would consider to be the first and only truly portable high end circumaurals. They would be in a class of their own. Notice I haven't even made any comments about what sort of sound I like. THAT indicates how desperate I am to find the form factor I am looking for. From reading this thread, I am confident 1, 2, 4, and 5 will be met. What I'm not sure is if 3 will be. With the understanding that these are supposed to be a sort of circumaural M-80, I'm hoping that means the M-100s will be lighter than the LP2s. However, I'm not sure if the comparison to the M-80s is only in terms of sound or if it also refers to the portability. Take M-80s, slap on some circumaural cups, keep the weight under 230g, and I'm sold.


Edited by UCLA 15 - 2/2/12 at 5:39pm
post #132 of 20972
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCLA 15 View Post

I'm very interested in what these headphones will become. Obviously a lot of other people are too.

 

I'm a college student who is looking for portable circumaural headphones. The thing is, I've done tons of research and have reached the conclusion that ultimately there is no such thing as truly portable circumaurals currently on the market. Here's a quick look at why essentially everything fails to meet all my no-compromise preferences:

 

1) They have to be circumaural. Supra aurals are incredibly uncomfortable to me. This eliminates a huge percentage of "portable" options.

2) The cable has to be of reasonable "portable" length. I was seriously considering the Koss Pro DJ100 until I found out that the cable is far too long (and not detachable). This alone has made me cross off a number of other options like the MDR-V6.

3) Light weight. I would be a LP2 owner right now if they didn't weigh 260g. To me, portable phones need to be relatively lightweight. I know that is subjective, but I cringe when people will suggest phones like the DT 770s to people who want portable phones. I have KRK KNS 8400s in my dorm room, which are full-sized circumaurals that KRK had no intentions of making at all portable. Despite the fact that they are not at all meant to be portable, they weigh only 230 g. If a company wants to make "portable" circumaurals, they better at least weigh less than damn phones that have no aspirations to be deemed "portable". I know 260 g isn't that bad, but it can easily be beat if a company really wants to make a set portable.

4) Sound good without amp. Reading through this whole thread, it's clear that people have very different opinions on this. Here's mine: I don't care in the least if the M-100s will sound better with an amp. All I do care about is that they sound good without an amp. Sounds great without an amp and amazing with an amp? To me that's boss and the perfect goal. (This is another requirement that helped to rule out choices like the DJ100s).

5) No damn flying buttresses. I HATE flying buttresses. It's the only reason my 8400s are a dorm-room-only phone and ones that I never take around campus. A form fitting look is an absolute must. The Denon AH-D1100 seemed like the PERFECT headphones for me: 180g practically had me wetting my pants. Light-check. Circumaural-check. Short cable-check. Sound good without amp-check. They seemed perfect. Then I looked at pictures of them. "F***. Why the f*** do companies make headphones that are the perfect portable circumaurals in every way other than the damn flying buttresses!" (my reaction). I cannot in any way grasp how these companies think that they can call their flying buttress-marred creations portable. Creative Aurvana Lives (basically D1100s) also fail here.

 

Any currently existing headphones that satisfy 1-4 fail 5. Any headphones that satisfy 2-5 fail 1 (these form the "sorta circumaural" group into which headphones such as the Phiaton MS 400, some of the other Phiatons, ATH WS-55, FA-004, and the like fall). I am an obsessive researcher and there is literally nothing in the higher end market which satisfies every requirement 1-5 that is in my opinion necessary to deem a headphone "portable". The funny thing is that I've found a few cheap ass headphones that do satisfy every requirement I have, and it almost makes me laugh in anguish at how pathetic my situation is.

 

If the M-100s can satisfy 1-5, not only will V-Moda have my money, they will have what I would consider to be the first and only truly portable high end circumaurals. They would be in a class of their own. Notice I haven't even made any comments about what sort of sound I like. THAT indicates how desperate I am to find the form factor I am looking for. From reading this thread, I am confident 1, 2, 4, and 5 will be met. What I'm not sure is if 3 will be. With the understanding that these are supposed to be a sort of circumaural M-80, I'm hoping that means the M-100s will be lighter than the LP2s. However, I'm not sure if the comparison to the M-80s is only in terms of sound or if it also refers to the portability. Take M-80s, slap on some circumaural cups, keep the weight under 230g, and I'm sold.


Nice post. I just wanted to correct you on one thing: the CAL have drivers from the D1001 headphone, and it's a totally different sound from the D1100. Just needed to clarify that. smily_headphones1.gif

 

Anyway, since I've been on head-fi I've been on the same quest as you - to find the perfect (or near perfect) portable circumaural. The only one I've found so far is the ATH-ANC7 (this was after the D1100 and while I had the MDR-V6 which I ended up selling due to my sound preferences changing and the cable on the V6 didn't help matters - still very comfortable headphones though). Besides weight and bulk, it's been hard to find a good portable circumaural mostly due to isolation, sound and form factor. I would be happy with my D1000 (same as D1001/CAL) but the isolation is pretty poor. It's by far the most comfortable I've ever tried besides the V6. Funnily enough, I was considering the KRK's briefly but I'm not sure how well they isolate and how the headband looks on the head - although I've been pretty lenient towards that these days.

 

That said, this is why I have been looking forward to the M-100 for so long. My hopes are that SQ will be great unamped and amazing amped, the isolation is an overall improvement, and I think form factor will be just fine. As for weight, I think as long as they don't seem as bulky as the M50, it should be fine. YMMV of course.

 

post #133 of 20972

I always thought the m-100 would sound like the d1100?

post #134 of 20972

I hope they sound WAY better. The D1100 has very recessed mids for me, the highs don't sparkle, and I just don't feel the music because the singer is so far away from me. The bass isn't realistic either. The D1100 is great for some genres but definitely not all. I really hope the M-100 is way more balanced, versatile, has better quality bass (with great extension), and has a more natural timbre and feel to the music.


Edited by roma101 - 2/2/12 at 8:32pm
post #135 of 20972

GREAT POSTS YA'LL!  Keep em coming, I am making a lot of final decisions in the last days til I LOCK!  My brain is scanning and reminiscing over every post, song, and preference I have encountered in many years to put this into a pseudo "people's choice" open-source headphone. 

 

Regarding 260g vs 230g - the issue isn't the OVERALL weight, its what we call the maximum Grams of Force at each point around the head, ear and skull.  If our LP2 is perfectly ergonomic and form-fitting on many heads (as we feel it is compared to the vast majority), it'll feel like less weight than a headphone weighing much less.  For instance, MANY headphones put WAY too much force on the top of the ear and for me it's too painful for more than 2 minutes.  If any one part of the headphone has too much force, it triumphs more than the overall weight.  This is why the Crossfade LP/LP2 reviews say it is so light.  It is fairly light for its materials and compared to its peers, but its "felt" weight is much more evenly distributed and what I strive for... a "BESPOKE FIT".

 

-v 


Edited by valkolton - 2/2/12 at 10:52pm
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