Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc. - Page 795

post #11911 of 20812

The PA2V2 arrived today. Package was heavier than I thought but had to rush off to work! Finish at 9.30 and until then I can't open it! Package only took about a week to get here. Was well shocked to receive it now

post #11912 of 20812

I was one of the fortunate few who was able to grab a PPU, VTF-100 (early release) unit and when I received it, it had a crack on the left wingplate. I emailed V-MODA and they said they weren't able to get me replacement parts until after the mass production release. So, for 3 1/2 months, I listened to my blemished M-100s awaiting the day I would get RMA'ed.

 

They did me one better. Instead of sending my M-100s in for repair, they sent me a brand new pair and asked that I send the old one back to them. Perplexed and intrigued, I now had in my possession two pairs of M-100s. One was a PPU unit that had 3 1/2 months of burn-in and adequately worn in ear cushions, and the other was a fresh mass production unit straight from the factory. And you bet your ass I A-B'ed them.

 

Now, if you're familiar with V-MODA and Val's policy of driver matching and their rigorous quality control standards you'll know that they strive for as little to no variance at all between production standards from product to product. And I, as a newbie to the headphone hobby, did not know such variances existed. I always figured that Headphone A from Company B sounded the same as all Headphone A's from Company B, since most of us don't go around purchasing multiple pairs of the same headphone. It's an easy assumption to make. But when you look at devices which have high market penetration, like the iPhone or the Galaxy S, you are given ample opportunity to make comparisons between like-devices. Most noticeable would be battery life, and then, to a lesser degree, screen brightness, color matching, speaker output, microphone, etc. And when put under such scrutiny, the differences become obvious and the illusion that all products from the same production line are exactly the same is shattered. Even twins have different fingerprints, right?

 

Well, guys, I didn't know which side of the burn-in debate to stand on. I read the arguments from both sides. I did my own subjective testing by spending hours with my headphones trying to note the changes if and when they occurred. I compared my headphones which were burned-in (V-MODA V-80, Philips The Stretch) with my friends' brand-new headphones (V-MODA M-80, Philips The Stretch). And now I've compared two pairs of M-100s; a 3 1/2 month old PPU, and a newborn MPU. The former used for hundreds of listening hours and conformed to the contours of my cute ears. The later sporting that new car smell. I A-B'ed them. Back and forth. Back and forth. With my eyes closed I put one on. Took it off. Put the other one on. Took it off. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The source was my Infuse 4G double-amped with a cMoyBB v2.03 that was plugged into the wall. I used a headphone splitter to make sure the signal each pair received was the same. Taylor Swift, Black Eyed Peas, Skrillex, Girls Generation, Psy, Lana Del Rey, Christina Perri...

Besides the softer earpads, I couldn't tell one from the other. There were things I thought I noticed, like punchier bass in my older pair, and a slightly wider soundstage in the new pair. And when I thought I had identified which had which, I would find that the positions switched. Now my old pair had the bigger soundstage, and the new pair had the punchier bass. Any difference I noticed in one pair would be contradicted by my next observation with the other pair. I was initially going to keep both for a few days and do a more in-depth comparison, but a half-hour was enough. There were no differences I could truly discern between the sound of either pair.

Does burn-in exist? Maybe. Maybe not. If I go by my experience with the M-100, then I can only conclude my experience bears no evidence for it. V-MODA has their stuff down. I remember there being some concern over whether or not there would be differences in SQ between the PPU and MPU M-100s. I think you guys can rest assured.

post #11913 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderNhan View Post

I was one of the fortunate few who was able to grab a PPU, VTF-100 (early release) unit and when I received it, it had a crack on the left wingplate. I emailed V-MODA and they said they weren't able to get me replacement parts until after the mass production release. So, for 3 1/2 months, I listened to my blemished M-100s awaiting the day I would get RMA'ed.

 

They did me one better. Instead of sending my M-100s in for repair, they sent me a brand new pair and asked that I send the old one back to them. Perplexed and intrigued, I now had in my possession two pairs of M-100s. One was a PPU unit that had 3 1/2 months of burn-in and adequately worn in ear cushions, and the other was a fresh mass production unit straight from the factory. And you bet your ass I A-B'ed them.

 

Now, if you're familiar with V-MODA and Val's policy of driver matching and their rigorous quality control standards you'll know that they strive for as little to no variance at all between production standards from product to product. And I, as a newbie to the headphone hobby, did not know such variances existed. I always figured that Headphone A from Company B sounded the same as all Headphone A's from Company B, since most of us don't go around purchasing multiple pairs of the same headphone. It's an easy assumption to make. But when you look at devices which have high market penetration, like the iPhone or the Galaxy S, you are given ample opportunity to make comparisons between like-devices. Most noticeable would be battery life, and then, to a lesser degree, screen brightness, color matching, speaker output, microphone, etc. And when put under such scrutiny, the differences become obvious and the illusion that all products from the same production line are exactly the same is shattered. Even twins have different fingerprints, right?

 

Well, guys, I didn't know which side of the burn-in debate to stand on. I read the arguments from both sides. I did my own subjective testing by spending hours with my headphones trying to note the changes if and when they occurred. I compared my headphones which were burned-in (V-MODA V-80, Philips The Stretch) with my friends' brand-new headphones (V-MODA M-80, Philips The Stretch). And now I've compared two pairs of M-100s; a 3 1/2 month old PPU, and a newborn MPU. The former used for hundreds of listening hours and conformed to the contours of my cute ears. The later sporting that new car smell. I A-B'ed them. Back and forth. Back and forth. With my eyes closed I put one on. Took it off. Put the other one on. Took it off. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The source was my Infuse 4G double-amped with a cMoyBB v2.03 that was plugged into the wall. I used a headphone splitter to make sure the signal each pair received was the same. Taylor Swift, Black Eyed Peas, Skrillex, Girls Generation, Psy, Lana Del Rey, Christina Perri...

Besides the softer earpads, I couldn't tell one from the other. There were things I thought I noticed, like punchier bass in my older pair, and a slightly wider soundstage in the new pair. And when I thought I had identified which had which, I would find that the positions switched. Now my old pair had the bigger soundstage, and the new pair had the punchier bass. Any difference I noticed in one pair would be contradicted by my next observation with the other pair. I was initially going to keep both for a few days and do a more in-depth comparison, but a half-hour was enough. There were no differences I could truly discern between the sound of either pair.

Does burn-in exist? Maybe. Maybe not. If I go by my experience with the M-100, then I can only conclude my experience bears no evidence for it. V-MODA has their stuff down. I remember there being some concern over whether or not there would be differences in SQ between the PPU and MPU M-100s. I think you guys can rest assured.

Wow, great post! I always, always, always had to wonder if "burn-in" existed due to variances in the units themselves rather than what people actually think "burn-in" is, or expectation bias...not very many people seem to consider that when AB-ing two pairs (one new, one "burned-in"). confused_face(1).gif

 

 

How does the cMoyBB sound with the M-100 by the way?

post #11914 of 20812
I feel like I used to see Spider Nhan on the Olympus forums over at DPR...
Nice post by the way, probably more valid than most because (like you say) production tolerances of V-MODA products is very high. Whenever my experience with new gear evolves over time, I always leave open the possibility that it could be "burn in" (which IS real for tubes, maybe for capacitors & resistors), could be my ears adjusting, my general health, etc. Too many variables to consider. And any difference is usually too small to worry about.
post #11915 of 20812

do you not get the set of extra shields when you order through amazon?

post #11916 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Wow, great post! I always, always, always had to wonder if "burn-in" existed due to variances in the units themselves rather than what people actually think "burn-in" is, or expectation bias...not very many people seem to consider that when AB-ing two pairs (one new, one "burned-in"). confused_face(1).gif

 

 

How does the cMoyBB sound with the M-100 by the way?

Thanks!

I bought the cMoy without really knowing that I would just be double amping, since none of my sources allow for direct DAC access. The biggest difference I notice when using the cMoy is the bass boost switch. It adds a level of punch and sub-bass that accentuates EDM and hip hop greatly. Lady Gaga and dubstep sound amazing with it turned on. Otherwise, it's a bit too much for kpop/pop/rock and classical. I don't really listen to much else beyond these genres. Detail is slightly improved and soundstage opens up, but not by much. It just results in a crisper, more controlled sound. Keep in mind, this is through double amping. If you have a proper soundcard or DAC that can be paired with a cMoy, then your experience might greatly differ from mine.

post #11917 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

I feel like I used to see Spider Nhan on the Olympus forums over at DPR...
Nice post by the way, probably more valid than most because (like you say) production tolerances of V-MODA products is very high. Whenever my experience with new gear evolves over time, I always leave open the possibility that it could be "burn in" (which IS real for tubes, maybe for capacitors & resistors), could be my ears adjusting, my general health, etc. Too many variables to consider. And any difference is usually too small to worry about.

Must have a been a different Spider Nhan. I don't even know what DPR is. And I remember seeing Tyll at Innerfidelity doing measurements of two Q701s. One with thousands of hours of burn-in and one brand-new. The frequency graphs for both were nearly identical. However, when he did a blind listening test, he could tell the difference immediately. I think earpad softness would contribute to that, but also consider that the M-100 is a brand new product and that different production lines are separated by only a few months, and I'm not sure how many have been produced so far, but they are all very closely related concerning production and distribution.

Some headphones, like the HD-25, have been in production for years and it's unrealistic to expect that two, unused, 15 year old HD-25s would compare to each other they same as they would to one that just came off the line today. In my mind, there must be some differences. The plastic that houses the drivers alone will have some variance in the chemical composition.

post #11918 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderNhan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Wow, great post! I always, always, always had to wonder if "burn-in" existed due to variances in the units themselves rather than what people actually think "burn-in" is, or expectation bias...not very many people seem to consider that when AB-ing two pairs (one new, one "burned-in"). confused_face(1).gif

 

 

How does the cMoyBB sound with the M-100 by the way?

Thanks!

I bought the cMoy without really knowing that I would just be double amping, since none of my sources allow for direct DAC access. The biggest difference I notice when using the cMoy is the bass boost switch. It adds a level of punch and sub-bass that accentuates EDM and hip hop greatly. Lady Gaga and dubstep sound amazing with it turned on. Otherwise, it's a bit too much for kpop/pop/rock and classical. I don't really listen to much else beyond these genres. Detail is slightly improved and soundstage opens up, but not by much. It just results in a crisper, more controlled sound. Keep in mind, this is through double amping. If you have a proper soundcard or DAC that can be paired with a cMoy, then your experience might greatly differ from mine.

Ah okay, cool. I made a Tangentsoft CMoy amp and it was really decent-sounding actually despite my lame solder job. It added some warmth to my SRH940 when it was working. While I was doing cable managing one day, I knocked off one of the potentiometer pins and it was impossible to solder it back in. Maybe I'll try to revive it and see how it pairs with the M-100. Now that I have a better understanding of how circuits work, perhaps I can put the components in a better layout...

post #11919 of 20812

Yeah I can agree with that. 

I thought my M-100s had changed until I realised it was because I had used the tissue mod. As soon as i took them out, they sounded exactly like they did when I got them which isn't half as good as they do with the modoin place. Like I said, the mod really balances the sound. 

post #11920 of 20812

You guys should do a poll to see how many people are using the mod and those who are not.

 

I wonder how Val feels about it, I mean a $300 "modern audiophile" headphone that most people need to put paper towel inside the cups for it to sound properly? hmmm...

post #11921 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsilva22 View Post

You guys should do a poll to see how many people are using the mod and those who are not.

 

I wonder how Val feels about it, I mean a $300 "modern audiophile" headphone that most people need to put paper towel inside the cups for it to sound properly? hmmm...


That is why I haven't been able to review it...

I'd be able to review it, with the new XL pads as you could probably buy it with them in place, but I can't review it based on a mod, even though I love the headphones with it.

post #11922 of 20812
When are the XL pads due to be out? And how much are we expecting them to cost owners of the M100 just to see if they work better?

Has Val said yet?
post #11923 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by musical-kage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsilva22 View Post

You guys should do a poll to see how many people are using the mod and those who are not.

 

I wonder how Val feels about it, I mean a $300 "modern audiophile" headphone that most people need to put paper towel inside the cups for it to sound properly? hmmm...


That is why I haven't been able to review it...

I'd be able to review it, with the new XL pads as you could probably buy it with them in place, but I can't review it based on a mod, even though I love the headphones with it.

 

Now that I have soft jewelry in my ears I can see how I do without the mod. I'll try it without the mod from now on without the mod in place and coem back later

 


 

 

Also about the chipping paint, on my matte blacks, it's only on the edges of the cup forks for me, not nearly like the original picture, and I've had mine for 5 weeks now, no babying involved. Also on the hext screws on the cup forks and the shield hex screws from putting on the custom shields. It's a non-issue for me. If more chips off, i won't fret, I'll maybe find some matching nail polish and touch it up  if it gets ugly, but I doubt I'll get to that stage. 

post #11924 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minarets View Post

When are the XL pads due to be out? And how much are we expecting them to cost owners of the M100 just to see if they work better?

Has Val said yet?

 

No date yet, still in final R&D as of last update. 

 

No cost to existing M-100 owners I'm pretty sure he said. 

post #11925 of 20812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minarets View Post

When are the XL pads due to be out? And how much are we expecting them to cost owners of the M100 just to see if they work better?

Has Val said yet?

I talked to David at V-Moda and he said they are working so hard on the Vamp Versa right now, they haven't had time to focus on the XL Pads. He said to expect them in the spring. 

 

As for the the comfort, one of the main reason I returned my matte pair was pain. I used the towel mod too. I just got my new white pair today and have worn them all day without any issues. I know these do not have modified pads but I am wondering if there may be some differences in tolerances. My ears easily touched the screens with the black pair but do not with the white pair. This is one time I am hoping the pads don't "settle in".

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › V-MODA M-100: Discussion/Feedback, Reviews, Pics, etc.