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post #106 of 20888

I saw the M series as targeting the audiophiles more-so than the djs/consumers. Also the LP series can be ran as a portable, I've seen it a few times at school (I see tonsss of beats though :/). Also I thought you were saying he should release both cans at the same time, of course he'll make new products eventually (duh, you don't need my level of experience in design and business to know that).

 

Also with people like sennheiser and beyerdynamic getting more into the higher end portables (amperior, dt1350) then if the M-100 is in fact a portable (but full size) then it may have to reach a higher price bracket than $300. The amperior is fully machined aluminum, with an iphone cable, fully replaceable cables and 350 bucks.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

What, you think Val would be done making headphones after the M100? Gimme a break! I'm sure there's other stuff he has planned, too, but he's already making portables, so why not go ahead and make the best portable and THEN tackle the home market? Idk, makes more sense to me anyways.

 

Val can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants; I'm just putting in my .02 for a purely portable over-ear upgrade to the M80, and I think it would make sense to call it the M100 tongue.gif
 



 



 

post #107 of 20888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jzbass25 View Post

I saw the M series as targeting the audiophiles more-so than the djs/consumers. Also the LP series can be ran as a portable, I've seen it a few times at school (I see tonsss of beats though :/). Also I thought you were saying he should release both cans at the same time, of course he'll make new products eventually (duh, you don't need my level of experience in design and business to know that).

 

Also with people like sennheiser and beyerdynamic getting more into the higher end portables (amperior, dt1350) then if the M-100 is in fact a portable (but full size) then it may have to reach a higher price bracket than $300. The amperior is fully machined aluminum, with an iphone cable, fully replaceable cables and 350 bucks.
 



 



^ That makes sense. I know all about money constraints btw, but as you can see V-MODA is not the only company who is pricing their higher-end portable at that price tag. However, V-MODA seems to be one of the only companies that's really involved with the HeadFi community and is willing to give us special deals which is pretty awesome and rare. I only hope that the sound of the M-100 unamped, is not < M-80 and that the isolation is better too.

 

Anyway, we are jumping to a lot of conclusions here, and we should just wait and see what happens. I honestly can't wait till impressions come out and I can't wait to actually hear this headphone. Since before I even joined Head-Fi, I have been looking for the perfect portable circumaural headphone, so I'm really looking forward to the M-100.

 

post #108 of 20888

I would assume the M100s were competing more directly with the DT1350, although offering a different sound. The DT1350s run under $300. I don't know anything about the Amperior sound-wise but it just looks like a metal HD25 with an iPhone cable; another rebrand attempt by Sennheiser.


Edited by Gilly87 - 2/1/12 at 3:21pm
post #109 of 20888

When the DT1350s first came out they were priced at $299.99, same price. Now that they have been out for some time, I still haven't seen many places bringing them down, substantially, in price. 

post #110 of 20888

Here's the thing, though: from everything I've read (which is a lot; I've considered purchasing the DT1350s and HD25s multiple times), the DT1350 offers noticeable gains in SQ from phones in the $200 range without an amp

post #111 of 20888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Here's the thing, though: from everything I've read (which is a lot; I've considered purchasing the DT1350s and HD25s multiple times), the DT1350 offers noticeable gains in SQ from phones in the $200 range without an amp



so which one did you end up buying?

post #112 of 20888

After some reading through on here I have to say something to those concerning about the consumer market and the M-Series (a long with SEVERAL Pro headphones).

 

As a consumer that goes into deep research into these things I can tell you that even if the M-100's were made to accommodate the same market as Beats and other "High Profile" headphones it would still suffer from the big name products. Labeling these as a "Beats Killer" is nonsense for various reasons from the fact that there are already HUNDREDS of cans on the market that are already better and/or cheaper than Beats and that those in here would want to see the true potential of the M-100's scaled down to not need amping so it can fight something that is not needed and would be pointless.

 

 

Simple reason why? Its because headphones like Beats are what I like to call "High Profile". High Profile as in they are only known for their brand and sell BECAUSE of the MARKETING their brand. Its all a marketing game with these types of headphones. While I am not saying V-Moda is not capable of going head to head in this market, I am saying they do not need to with their M-Series which is directed towards us which know better about headphones. Not the masses which only buy for appeal over function.

 

As a tech enthusiast I have seen this first hand many times in my life. If there is enough marketing behind it people will buy trash if its polished up and hyped as well as going for the classic "Everyone has one so it has to be good, so why not you too?" type of marketing. Some companies go out of their way to pay off shops so they can have merchants telling consumers to buy into something because its "their preferred choice".

 

I also did a small experiment with some Radioshack's in the area that sold the Crossfade LP and each different employee on different days at all of the ones I went in on all suggested that I should buy "Beats" using every trick in the book as I mentioned above to try and sell them to me. Even as I mentioned about the Crossfade LP they had no idea about what they were nor cared since they were cheaper than the Beats they tried to sell me. Its no surprise at all that they try to do this, but it proves my point.

 

V-Moda seems to actually care about their customers and market as to what we want. Why mess with a good thing when trying to "compete" with companies that genuinely do not care about their customers or what they can bring to market worth a damn?

 

V-Moda has been doing good with us, if you (the consumer) truly want to make these headphones have more of a market appeal however the best we can do is show them off to people that might be interested. Eventually popularity will spread not by cheating the market but by good ol' fashion word of mouth. Its the best we can do and hope for.

 

Finally, Comparing the M-Series to Beats is just insulting, sure Beats has the market for "High Profile" but do not try to drag in the perfection that is the M-Series into that. Leave that for the the Non M-series.

 

That is more or less, what I had to say on that. I can go on, but I rather not. (Except for questions)

post #113 of 20888

They're 80 ohm headphones and I hear they like amping and are more sensitive to their source because of the extra power needed. I've only heard the 1350s are slightly better in mids, clarity and that they're more reference with a flatter response across the range.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Here's the thing, though: from everything I've read (which is a lot; I've considered purchasing the DT1350s and HD25s multiple times), the DT1350 offers noticeable gains in SQ from phones in the $200 range without an amp



 

post #114 of 20888

Neither; I heard about the M100s and decided to wait. Now I'm beginning to think I'll just stick with my MS400s; I removed the stock padding plates and replaced them with the pads from my Phillips Stretch cans, and without the mesh thingy covering the speaker, the bass has more impact and the highs are noticeably brighter; with some EQ, they are satisfactory. If the M100s aren't for me, I'll wait til somebody makes one that is; maybe it'll be VMODA :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo4588 View Post



so which one did you end up buying?



 

post #115 of 20888

The DT 1350 is another phone that sounds fine unamped, but scales way better when amped. Also I've read that there are some issues with timbre accuracy, and the soundstage is comparable to the HD25s. They also require the perfect fit/sweet spot which has proven to be a hassle for some on the go. The only thing the DT 1350 appears to have going for them is the isolation and its technical detail retrieval.

 

For $300, I would imagine the M-100 is a better deal, considering it will most likely have a wider soundstage, better imaging, and a higher-end portable sound (hopefully very good detail retrieval, good extension, balance, and better timbre accuracy). It also has more accessories, better build quality, and iPhone compatibility. The only thing I am a little worried about is isolation. As long as they isolate and sound better than the M-80 unamped, and even better amped - then it's a winner in my book.

 

EDIT: Well stated The Doctor, exactly my thoughts when someone started calling these "Beats killers" lol


Edited by roma101 - 2/1/12 at 3:56pm
post #116 of 20888

I don't find it an insulting comparison at all. Lots of people love the Beats. Obviously they aren't on par with newer VMODA headphones in terms of SQ, but when I look at Val's website and see pictures of custom LP2s on celebrities' heads, somehow I doubt that Val's #1 market is audiophiles, and it makes me scoff at anyone who suggests he's not ambitious and interested in "high profile" marketing. He's clearly interested in what we think, but let's not pretend we're his main audience. If the M series was targeted specifically at audiophiles, it wouldn't be sold at RadioShack; in fact, RadioShack wouldn't sell them. They don't even sell Shure or Sennheiser, the two most high profile "audiophile" headphone companies out there.

 

By the way, I can tell you now for certain that those RadioShack employees aren't told to promote Beats specifically. I used to be one less than a year ago.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post

After some reading through on here I have to say something to those concerning about the consumer market and the M-Series (a long with SEVERAL Pro headphones).

 

As a consumer that goes into deep research into these things I can tell you that even if the M-100's were made to accommodate the same market as Beats and other "High Profile" headphones it would still suffer from the big name products. Labeling these as a "Beats Killer" is nonsense for various reasons from the fact that there are already HUNDREDS of cans on the market that are already better and/or cheaper than Beats and that those in here would want to see the true potential of the M-100's scaled down to not need amping so it can fight something that is not needed and would be pointless.

 

 

Simple reason why? Its because headphones like Beats are what I like to call "High Profile". High Profile as in they are only known for their brand and sell BECAUSE of the MARKETING their brand. Its all a marketing game with these types of headphones. While I am not saying V-Moda is not capable of going head to head in this market, I am saying they do not need to with their M-Series which is directed towards us which know better about headphones. Not the masses which only buy for appeal over function.

 

As a tech enthusiast I have seen this first hand many times in my life. If there is enough marketing behind it people will buy trash if its polished up and hyped as well as going for the classic "Everyone has one so it has to be good, so why not you too?" type of marketing. Some companies go out of their way to pay off shops so they can have merchants telling consumers to buy into something because its "their preferred choice".

 

I also did a small experiment with some Radioshack's in the area that sold the Crossfade LP and each different employee on different days at all of the ones I went in on all suggested that I should buy "Beats" using every trick in the book as I mentioned above to try and sell them to me. Even as I mentioned about the Crossfade LP they had no idea about what they were nor cared since they were cheaper than the Beats they tried to sell me. Its no surprise at all that they try to do this, but it proves my point.

 

V-Moda seems to actually care about their customers and market as to what we want. Why mess with a good thing when trying to "compete" with companies that genuinely do not care about their customers or what they can bring to market worth a damn?

 

V-Moda has been doing good with us, if you (the consumer) truly want to make these headphones have more of a market appeal however the best we can do is show them off to people that might be interested. Eventually popularity will spread not by cheating the market but by good ol' fashion word of mouth. Its the best we can do and hope for.

 

Finally, Comparing the M-Series to Beats is just insulting, sure Beats has the market for "High Profile" but do not try to drag in the perfection that is the M-Series into that. Leave that for the the Non M-series.

 

That is more or less, what I had to say on that. I can go on, but I rather not. (Except for questions)



 


Edited by Gilly87 - 2/1/12 at 3:54pm
post #117 of 20888

how come I can't find any of the V-Moda products in any of the major/minor retailers here in France? Only Amazon has them. seems like european distribution hasn't picked up yet?!

post #118 of 20888
Thread Starter 

I'm all for the M100's! I believe Val said they might come in white, I will order gold shields and I will be in headphone heaven. My Acura (previous car) was white w/gold accents. I love that combo!

Any pics of white and gold LP1's? I can only find black and gold.

My long-gone Acura
customs_gunmetal_gold_skull_HIRES_610x610.jpg&sa=X&ei=FOMpT7WgM8Xz0gG54eDZCg&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNG2FdZ9_XKc0pN9bMc2GVypHDMqfA

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyline315 View Post


#1 - Has Val actually confirmed any of this?  Maybe you should wait for his official word before throwing these kinds of statements out there.

 

#2 - If he does produce a headphone that requires an amp to reach its full potential, how does that make V-moda any different from all the other headphone companies out there?  They make different headphones designed for specific audiences, and maybe you won't be the target for this one.  So be it.  Where's the crime in that?  And, V-moda offering a portable amp for their headphone doesn't mean you have to buy that specific amp.  There are tons of amps from tons of companies that will do the job.  Sounds pretty non-apple like to me.
 

 

Exactly. 1 customer lost, but many more to be gained.

If an amp will improve the sound quality, count me in! M80's haven't changed significantly amped. Even Val has admitted that. He's doing a good thing and providing us audiophiles with the M100's to look forward to! I have my amp all ready to go...
 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djsquared View Post


Dude, I think you're basing your criticisms mostly off of the speculation here on this thread without there being any extant physical product from V-MODA. I just think you're getting all worked up over something that is still in the works. Don't count it out till it is actually released and you have some real evidence upon which to base your opinion (which to me does not include the questions by Val about how it should sound--he's trying his best to make it sound great and stay affordable for everyone!).

 

BTW, the product was always going to be $299+tax, so why did you wait till now to get all huffy about the price?  Is it just because there's a possibility that to make the product sound 110% we might think about buying an amp, as opposed to 95% fantastic un-amped? I think you're being a bit unreasonable in this regard. You mostly likely won't HAVE to buy an amp to get a great sound out of the M-100. It's not like V-MODA is offering what could be a stellar headphone only to say, "Now to make any sound come out you need our proprietary software, our own PMP, and our own special cables (like Apple does a lot of the time, e.g. Thunderbolt, Magsafe, 30-pin dock connector)." Most folks will probably not think the M-100 sounds bad un-amped, but audiophiles and music junkies will benefit by amping, so great. 

 

Sorry to rant, and I hope I didn't offend, but I felt like I needed to give a little perspective here.

 

Peace!

 

That is the point I've been making. It's a win-win situation when you look at the full picture.

If you're causal listener, you'll love the M-100's. If you're a true audiophile and want to enjoy the best, you'll have/buy an amp and enjoy the M-100's.

He's already given the unamped audience the M80's. Now he's providing us audiophiles which a pair to headphones to enjoy!

And so what if he's making an iPhone case amp? He's not forcing to buy it is he? I already have an amp and I don't use my iPhone so I don't need it and I'm happy with that.

He's now appealing to iPhone users that want great sound quality with better portability! People were crying about carrying a 2-inch amp, well now there's a choice to use your iPhone case amp! Another win-win situation.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post


See my post above...Val has all but confirmed everything I am criticizing.
Well first of all he would be foolish to try to making exclusive amp compatibility; he would alienate a sizeable chunk of his customers, especially at this price bracket. But he's doing the next thing to it: setting people up to buy more of his stuff. And like I said, theres nothing skeezy about that compared to other companies, but that doesn't make it admirable either. There's no room for Apples brand of nonsense in the audio market, its too broad; there is less competition in computing.
Secondly, its different from Sennheiser et al because of the way he is doing it: releasing the amp and the phones together, pulling everything into a higher price bracket all at once, setting expectations based on MUCH more affordable products...its no worse than business as usual, but again, doesn't mean it's admirable.

Innovation.
 

You have from now until April at the least to save up $40-60 to buy an amp if you want to enjoy the M100's to the fullest if you're worried about it not being up to par w/o an amp. I've seen the E11 go for less than $55.

 

Let's say the M100's come out in mid-April and you want to buy them plus an E11. That would mean you would have to save about $0.74 each day.

 

An additional $55 is not a small price to pay if you're seeking perfection.
 

 


Edited by MrNurse - 2/1/12 at 5:13pm
post #119 of 20888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

I don't find it an insulting comparison at all. Lots of people love the Beats. Obviously they aren't on par with newer VMODA headphones in terms of SQ, but when I look at Val's website and see pictures of custom LP2s on celebrities' heads, somehow I doubt that Val's #1 market is audiophiles, and it makes me scoff at anyone who suggests he's not ambitious and interested in "high profile" marketing. He's clearly interested in what we think, but let's not pretend we're his main audience. If the M series was targeted specifically at audiophiles, it wouldn't be sold at RadioShack; in fact, RadioShack wouldn't sell them. They don't even sell Shure or Sennheiser, the two most high profile "audiophile" headphone companies out there.

 

By the way, I can tell you now for certain that those RadioShack employees aren't told to promote Beats specifically. I used to be one less than a year ago.
 



 


 

Well the first thing I have to say is that its possible to be a company with multiple markets. V-Moda is trying to do that with the M-Series for the Audiophile crowd and the other products (Such as the LP/LP2's) for the other crowds. It is entirely possible to do that, however what I am trying to say is that we should not try to push the stand alone M-Series into the same light as regular High Profile cans. The M-Series are meant to be a different beast entirely to "High Profile" market. Why push it in there when other cans like the LP/LP2's can do that hands down and be still better than Beats.

 

As for the Radioshack experiment, it was done at radioshack because oddly enough, I could not find them sold anywhere else, and with all that were near me I have only seen 3 shacks have the LP's alone. I have not seen them at any other market near me. The only place I have yet to check is an Apple Store which is a drive away. I do plan on going there soon though.

 

And while the shack does not sell Shure, they do sell Sennheiser (albeit, web only). I will go to say that they might not have been told to promote Beats specifically, but perhaps being the most expensive on the rack of phones they did have to sell maybe they were encouraged to just sell the "best" in their stock which can also mean the most expensive.

 

Finally, why is it such a problem to imagine buying an amp for $300 cans? Most expensive audiophile grade cans need amps to bring out their full potential. Its a given, even if its still designed to be for the portable market. But look at it this way, you have a pair of cans which have been greatly improved with new drivers, a bigger set to drive them in, give all the design made to keep these durable to an extreme degree and make them mishap proof with things such as a replaceable cable. All of this and more with the sacrifice being that they may not be able to dive themselves to the fullest potential. If the sacrifice was that alone I would still buy them and get what I need to properly drive them, better than harming design and/or worst yet downgrading the drivers. Some people even argue about just wanting larger M-80's. Saying to have that rather then having a better overall product just because of amping woes? Come on, I rather pay out $300 for something better than the M-80's with the sacrifice being needing an amp rather than paying $300 for just a bigger pair of M-80's.

post #120 of 20888

You appear to be missing my point.

 

RadioShack is a consumer retail outlet. They sell basic electronic parts, cell phones, and consumer hot tickets. They are all about the bottom line. They would never strike a deal with VMODA unless they both thought that the headphones would appeal to the mass market. And what about the True Blood branding? Val is clearly interested in high profile marketing for all of his products, no matter how you try to word it.

 

And yes, that is exactly why they pitch Beats, which has nothing to do with any company's marketing strategy. If people are just watching commercials/reading magazines, they will buy the beats. But if they HEAR the difference, AND they cost substantially less, then at least a good chunk of them would think twice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post


 

Well the first thing I have to say is that its possible to be a company with multiple markets. V-Moda is trying to do that with the M-Series for the Audiophile crowd and the other products (Such as the LP/LP2's) for the other crowds. It is entirely possible to do that, however what I am trying to say is that we should not try to push the stand alone M-Series into the same light as regular High Profile cans. The M-Series are meant to be a different beast entirely to "High Profile" market. Why push it in there when other cans like the LP/LP2's can do that hands down and be still better than Beats.

 

As for the Radioshack experiment, it was done at radioshack because oddly enough, I could not find them sold anywhere else, and with all that were near me I have only seen 3 shacks have the LP's alone. I have not seen them at any other market near me. The only place I have yet to check is an Apple Store which is a drive away. I do plan on going there soon though.

 

And while the shack does not sell Shure, they do sell Sennheiser (albeit, web only). I will go to say that they might not have been told to promote Beats specifically, but perhaps being the most expensive on the rack of phones they did have to sell maybe they were encouraged to just sell the "best" in their stock which can also mean the most expensive.

 

Finally, why is it such a problem to imagine buying an amp for $300 cans? Most expensive audiophile grade cans need amps to bring out their full potential. Its a given, even if its still designed to be for the portable market. But look at it this way, you have a pair of cans which have been greatly improved with new drivers, a bigger set to drive them in, give all the design made to keep these durable to an extreme degree and make them mishap proof with things such as a replaceable cable. All of this and more with the sacrifice being that they may not be able to dive themselves to the fullest potential. If the sacrifice was that alone I would still buy them and get what I need to properly drive them, better than harming design and/or worst yet downgrading the drivers. Some people even argue about just wanting larger M-80's. Saying to have that rather then having a better overall product just because of amping woes? Come on, I rather pay out $300 for something better than the M-80's with the sacrifice being needing an amp rather than paying $300 for just a bigger pair of M-80's.


 

 

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