Whats the deal with these amps

The answer lies within your ears. No matter how many people type the explanations, it really boils down to listening experience.

I once was like you a few years ago and I had all these questions. Audio is a mystery in many ways and to really solve them, you have to spend the money and live with the gear to fully understand. Words of explanation can really do no justice.

Buy the budget amps and buy some expensive amps and live them for a while. You will get to know their sonic personalities. If you think that a cheap amp sounds great and the more expensive stuff is over hyped, you turn out be a great money saver.

However, if you end up loving the expensive amps, it could be a strike in the painful heart of your wallet.

I will say this from my experience on Head-fi:

Do not fully rely on people's opinions. Your ears and experience are most important. It is easy to say this but doing it can be difficult because in order to find the truth, you will probably have to spend money to have access to this stuff because you really need to live with gear to fully understand what they can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl 

I heard plenty of 2-3 hundred dollar amps and non of them sounded any different than an ipod or even an old dell laptop i listed to, all with HD580.

 

I read once that a certain voltage is required to power certain headphones.  Does anyone know how to explain it mathematically?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/578556/ohms

Was a little confused on this myself..I think Head Injury outlines it nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl 

I heard plenty of 2-3 hundred dollar amps and non of them sounded any different than an ipod or even an old dell laptop i listed to, all with HD580.

 

From my personal experience, I bought a used $250 Marantz reciever that was built in 1971. The headphone jack easily blew away an iPod jack and it easily blew away $300 portable amp. I'm not saying you have tin ears but I will say that an iPod jack is still pretty respectable for many headphones. If you like it, you are fine. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl 

I heard plenty of 2-3 hundred dollar amps and non of them sounded any different than an ipod or even an old dell laptop i listed to, all with HD580.

 

Another factor to realize is: Did you just simply listen or did you actually own plenty of 2-3 hundred amps? Were they portable amps? A $300 portable pocket amp is not a huge splash in audio improvement. Listening and owning amps can make a difference. When you live with gear, you really get to know the personalities and nuances. There is a difference. However, brief listenings are better than no listening. I will admit that headphone jacks from laptops are indeed pretty good. For my personal taste, I prefer a high current tube amp because the tone is thicker. The down side is that they are expensive and geared for the more deep in the woods listener.

Do wallets snap as Tyll would say?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl 

Why do you need to spend 600 dollars to a clean uncolored amplified signal?

 

You don't necessarily. 

With that said, there are (statistically) more flawed amps in the lower price points than in the higher, so finding the bargain amp that really does the job well can be more of a hunt (some of us find joy in that hunt). There are also many people who prefer a little coloration in their amps - choosing to go with various tube configurations (most are less clean than SS - though there are always exceptions). 

There may also be other features that are important. Integrated DAC chips, or multiple inputs, multiple outputs, adjustable gain or differing impedence taps, etc. 

Which amp meets all your sound and usage (and yes, aesthetic) needs, will vary from person to person. And what works great for you, might fall short (or far exceed) what someone else requires. Let your own needs drive your decision, and bear those in mind when sharing a recommendation.

What fancy amps tend to do over cheap but quality amps (if they do anything special at all) is color the sound.

That little amp looks like a pretty good piece of equipment. It's refreshing to see they did their measurements at a low 30 ohm load, which is one of the harder ones to drive. Couple problems though:

• The measurements were taken at a pretty low voltage, around 0.32 Vrms (I don't know the math, I'm just using an online calculator). That might be around the sweet spot of the amp where distortion and noise are both low. It's enough to drive sensitive headphones, but nothing tough
• They don't mention output impedance
• The amp is limited to about 105-110 mW of power at low impedances (again using that calculator). That's enough for most headphones, but it won't drive an HE-6 or anything. And there's no telling how the distortion acts as it approaches its limit without some graphs or more data

Not to make it look bad or anything. I'm sure it's pretty good.

Every recording is colored or at least altered in some way. And every amp has a sonic personality. An important thing with amps is the high current factor. A higher current amp with a stronger or better quality power supply will give better definition and clarity. Cheaper amps can still sound good and by all means, choose them as your amps (or iPod headphone jack only) if you like them but the really expensive stuff tends to have better quality power supplies which results in a more focused and tighter sound. One thing you may notice is that you may notice better definition of the reverb if there is music recorded in a large hall for example.

A good quality power supply is heavy so you may notice the really expensive amps to weigh more in pounds literally. A cheaper amp will be more light weight because of the smaller power supply. I'm not saying that heavier amps are better but this usually is a common physical trait with the more expensive amps. 

Lol, I hope this was a joke post. I'm in the camp that believes differences in the audiophile world are grossly exaggerated or even at times subconsciously invented or manifested, but to make such a claim is ludicrous. The difference would be quite obvious.

Unless by "most people", you mean the average joe who very rarely listens to music and wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a HD800 or some Monsters or Bose in the first place. Or, would actually prefer the latter due to the extra bass.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl 

You often hear around here so many headphones are dull or boring without expensive 500 dollar amps, but there is never any blind testing to prove it.  I am willing to bet that most people could not tell a difference with an hd800 out of an ipod and an expensive amp.  Yet people rave on about equipment when they first hear it.  Placebo affect.  Where are the blind tests?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl 

You often hear around here so many headphones are dull or boring without expensive 500 dollar amps, but there is never any blind testing to prove it.  I am willing to bet that most people could not tell a difference with an hd800 out of an ipod and an expensive amp.  Yet people rave on about equipment when they first hear it.  Placebo affect.  Where are the blind tests?

Check out the Sound Science sub forum.

I am generally with you on the necessity of blind tests, and toning down overblown audiophile claims. With that said - an iPod output has sever limitations in the amount of voltage and overall power it can produce. Less sensitive phones, or those with high output impedances will not be driven well and the difference between that, and a clean amp with sufficient power will be quite noticeable. 

Once you start to add in deliberate amp design colorations, the results would be even more obvious. Personally, I am skeptical of the value of some of these very expensive amps (Over $1000), versus a well designed inexpensive one (Under $300) - but I also recognize limitations in components, power sources, and manufacture that can affect the more thrifty designs and would have a measurable, audible effect on the output if not carefully designed to mitigate those (well designed inexpensive amp circuits include the: Dynalo, O2, M-stage)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl 

I heard plenty of 2-3 hundred dollar amps and non of them sounded any different than an ipod or even an old dell laptop i listed to, all with HD580.

 

I read once that a certain voltage is required to power certain headphones.  Does anyone know how to explain it mathematically?

Try reading this link:

http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance

Hopefully that will go some way to explaining the math.

Keep in mind that most headphones only require about 1 or 2 volts and 1-20 milliWatts to sound really loud.

Having said all that, a lot of good tube amps can add a bit of artificial warm that a lot of people like.  Personally I like tube amps for some recording/some forms of music.

I have a dislike for solid state amps with too much output impedance, I don't like what it does to the bass.