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HD580 upgrade to HD650 - Page 2

post #16 of 26

If you don't believe that an amp, dac, cables, or anything else makes any difference, how can you believe that different models of headphones makes any difference?

 

Blind tests have also "proven" that people can't tell the difference in different prices/models of speakers either. Headphones are just speakers closer to your ears. 

 

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html

 

And plenty of people on Head-Fi say lower models sound better to them than higher ones. If there's any kind of difference, then some people will be able to perceive it, and then those people might have an opinion on which they prefer.

 

I think blind tests often take too much out of the equation, or leave variables in. Like blind wine tastings, $2 bottles beat out $50 bottles. So by that test, there's no point in paying more than $2 for a bottle of wine.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=124332&page=1#.TyAMr29STQg

 

But "taste" is really made up of both smell and taste. When you have a cold it's really hard to taste anything, because smell plays a huge factor in taste. Why aren't blind taste tests done with your nose pinched shut? They're allowing another sense to change their perception in the test.

 

Audio can be a multi-sensory experience.

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOakTopher View Post

If you don't believe that an amp, dac, cables, or anything else makes any difference, how can you believe that different models of headphones makes any difference?


 

Really?

 

Hey do a blind test with your micro stack for me.  I would love to see the results.  If you can't pass a blind test, then obviously the equipment is not leaps and bounds better than an ipod and you could have spend $700 dollars more on something else that actually affects the sound like headphones.  Maybe I am wrong... It would be a terrible tragedy.


Edited by Crazy*Carl - 1/25/12 at 7:31am
post #18 of 26

I think you would definitely hear quite a fuller sound coming from the 650s in comparison to the 580s by properly powering them, rather than just comparing both from plugging them in to your computer directly...at least I do

post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ndug15 View Post

I think you would definitely hear quite a fuller sound coming from the 650s in comparison to the 580s by properly powering them, rather than just comparing both from plugging them in to your computer directly...at least I do


Show me the proof - i.e. a blind test.  Maybe the 650s do require more.  But the hd580 are sure easy to drive with almost anything. Whenever I search blind test, the only threads I ever see are the ones I started.

post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOakTopher View Post

If you don't believe that an amp, dac, cables, or anything else makes any difference, how can you believe that different models of headphones makes any difference?

 

Blind tests have also "proven" that people can't tell the difference in different prices/models of speakers either. Headphones are just speakers closer to your ears. 

 

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html

 

And plenty of people on Head-Fi say lower models sound better to them than higher ones. If there's any kind of difference, then some people will be able to perceive it, and then those people might have an opinion on which they prefer.

 

I think blind tests often take too much out of the equation, or leave variables in. Like blind wine tastings, $2 bottles beat out $50 bottles. So by that test, there's no point in paying more than $2 for a bottle of wine.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=124332&page=1#.TyAMr29STQg

 

But "taste" is really made up of both smell and taste. When you have a cold it's really hard to taste anything, because smell plays a huge factor in taste. Why aren't blind taste tests done with your nose pinched shut? They're allowing another sense to change their perception in the test.

 

Audio can be a multi-sensory experience.


I seriously doubt that last sentence. What other sense besides hearing....taste, smell, sight? When you see a $1000 price tag on a headphone you're going to think they sound better than a $300 set, is that it? That's just expectation bias....we expect that the $300 cable upgrade is going to make a difference, so our brain is tricked into hearing it....happens all the time. Google 'expectation bias'.

 

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozz View Post

I have a friend that has the HD 600 and I cannot for the life of me tell the difference between it and my HD 580's...



Well the hd580 is basically a 600 with plastic grills and not as matched drivers. But the drivers are still the same.

post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post


I seriously doubt that last sentence. What other sense besides hearing....taste, smell, sight? When you see a $1000 price tag on a headphone you're going to think they sound better than a $300 set, is that it? That's just expectation bias....we expect that the $300 cable upgrade is going to make a difference, so our brain is tricked into hearing it....happens all the time. Google 'expectation bias'.

 

The biggest influencing sense to sound is touch. We "hear" bass as much, or more, by feeling it as from the sound waves. Deaf people can feel music by feeling the vibrations of speakers. Bass kickers (that do nothing other than shake you) work to make the bass feel more powerful.

 

Then there's sight. Quote from Dr. Sean Olive, "There have been scientific studies that confirm that the quality and size of picture influences the perceived quality of sound. The bi-modal sensory interactions work both way although the video's influence the perception audio on is much stronger than vice versa."

 

Our mind plays tricks on us all the time, entertainment tends to exploit this, movies, music, games can all use tricks to make something feel, seem, look or sound better than it should be.

 

If your blind test proves to you that one thing doesn't matter, then great. That's awesome for you, spend less & be happy.

 

For others, myself included, if real world situations make something sound better to me, then it's a worthy purchase & I'm happy.

post #23 of 26
Thread Starter 

And thought head-fi was about good sound... lol I guess not.  No wonder the hi-fi world has such a reputation.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl View Post

And thought head-fi was about good sound... lol I guess not.  No wonder the hi-fi world has such a reputation.

+1
 

That's the thing....we ARE influenced by reviews we read and maybe a famous engineer's endorsement...even the way a phone looks, or a big price tag....but if you're looking for good sound only, it's always best to go by a dbt, imo....otherwise you're just fooling yourself. 

post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOakTopher View Post

The biggest influencing sense to sound is touch. We "hear" bass as much, or more, by feeling it as from the sound waves. Deaf people can feel music by feeling the vibrations of speakers. Bass kickers (that do nothing other than shake you) work to make the bass feel more powerful.

 

Then there's sight. Quote from Dr. Sean Olive, "There have been scientific studies that confirm that the quality and size of picture influences the perceived quality of sound. The bi-modal sensory interactions work both way although the video's influence the perception audio on is much stronger than vice versa."

 

Our mind plays tricks on us all the time, entertainment tends to exploit this, movies, music, games can all use tricks to make something feel, seem, look or sound better than it should be.

 

If your blind test proves to you that one thing doesn't matter, then great. That's awesome for you, spend less & be happy.

 

For others, myself included, if real world situations make something sound better to me, then it's a worthy purchase & I'm happy.

Personally, I'd prefer to hear a piece of gear without knowing anything about it other than how it sounds, but If a big price tag or an advertisement featuring a famous celebrity makes something sound better to you then by all means buy it. That's exactly what advertisements are designed to do....trick you into thinking their product is better than it really is....objectively speaking.  

 

post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl View Post


But the hd580 are sure easy to drive with almost anything. Whenever I search blind test, the only threads I ever see are the ones I started.


I would have to agree that the 580s are quite easy to drive and/or don't really benefit from expensive amping. When I owned the 580s I had both a solid-state Meier Audio Corda Head-Five and a SinglePower PPX3 SLAM tube amp, they both brought the amp to the same level of SQ.

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