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Proposed set-up for Senn 600

post #1 of 9
1/23/12 at 6:37pm
Thread Starter 

Well, this is my first day as a member of head-fi, and my first week as a burgeoning audiophile. Forgive me if, at any point, I sound ridiculous. I'm learning.

 

After almost two years of no music and no movies (except crap)--I'll spare the reasons why--I've acquired a creative itch again. Hence the pair of senn 600s. I listen to mostly classical, jazz, acoustic, reggae, etc. I also listen to hip-hop, rock (classical and progressive), and just about anything--except contemporary country. Sorry. Anyway, I haven't felt this excited since I don't know when--years, really. And I just started writing again (like, any form of writing). Whence came this post.

 

Having a pair of senn 600s has opened up an entire new world to me. In fact, I don't think I've listened to music before until I put these things on. My god. I chose them after hours and hours of reading reviews, scourging forums, and exploring general info on audio. The same goes for the set-up I'm proposing. Now, I know this isn't necessarily a high, high-end set-up, but I wanted something that was somewhat economical.

 

I run the 600s through a Bellari HA 540 tube amp, with a Herbie's Rx tube damper (on the way in the mail), and a 1964 Sylvania tube. I don't know how much of a difference these add-ons make, but I certainly noticed the change between the vintage tubes and the stock one (and even the Mullard one). I think (hope) I bought a good amp.

 

Well, this is what I plan to get next and in this specific order. If you think I should buy, for example, a DAC before a CD player for whatever reason, let me know, especially b/c I don't exactly have the funds to purchase everything at once, or even in chunks. Probably common. Oh, I should mention that currently I'm playing CDs out of a piece of **** DVD player--sacrilege, I know.

 

Please let me know if another product (around the same price point) is worth looking at or considering--or buying. Oh, and if I'm missing something that would complement this set-up, let me know, too.

 

1.) 8' Cardas Headphone Cable with balanced Neutrik plugs

2.) Marantz CD5004

3.) Schiit Bifrost DAC (w/o USB)

4.) DH Labs D-75 digital cable (coax) with Neutrik termination

5.) 12" Cardas RCA cable (DAC to amp)

6.) This is more of an "ideal," but eventually I want to purchase a pair of Beyer DT990s for hip-hop (suggestions on this one very open). My g/f especially likes hip-hop, and the bass, while superb in the 600s, isn't exactly what it could be for that genre.

7.) Ok, this is even more of an ideal. Maybe a new amp? When I purchased the Bellari, I didn't really know about Schiit. Otherwise, I'd probably have a Valhalla. But, if I'm going to replace the amp I have, I want it to be a little higher-end (the Lyr at $450 is at the top of this list). They Lyr's price is right around what I'd be willing to pay to supplement my Bellari.

 

Btw, I don't really listen to music through a computer. Only CD. Eventually I'll make a switch to vinyl.

 

Like I said, I'm new, so please forgive any audiophiliac short-comings here.

 

 

 

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post #2 of 9
1/28/12 at 9:25pm
Thread Starter 

Ha. I guess I was way off base.

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post #3 of 9
1/28/12 at 9:48pm

If you're buying a balanced re-cable, what are you going to drive them with? 

 

Source wise, I'm skeptical of modern CD players. Try to find a "last gen" universal DVD player (like a Yamaha DVD-S) from a decent builder (Yamaha, Denon, Sony, etc) which will get you DVD-A, SACD, CD, and so on. Shouldn't cost a fortune either. If that doesn't fly, modern universal players (which include Blu-ray and net services, and therefore cost more, like the Oppo BDPs and Yamaha BD-A (not BD-S!)) are a good pick as well. 

 

DAC may be irrelevant, with a good player. 

 

I'm also skeptical of expensive cables, but that's just me. Heavy and copper is basically my point. Stuff included with machines is also nice.

 

Regarding the DT990s - very different headphones. The 600's are near-enough to neutral; the DT 990s are not. Personally I like the Sennheisers for hip-hop/rap, but I doubt we're on the same page talking about the genre (and I also doubt we're on the same page with what's "a good amount" of bass). If you want more bass over the Sennheiser, look at Denon, Kenwood, perhaps Sony. The Beyerdynamic will get you more bass as well, but it also brings a treble bump (something like 10 dB at 10k).

 

 

 

 

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post #4 of 9
1/29/12 at 12:45am

Thought I would add a few comments here. Since you own the HD600's and are thinking of purchasing a Schitt Lyr I thougt I would comment on the two since I currently own that setup. I've been through a lot of different amps since picking up my 600's....nearly 8 years ago and I can tell you from my experience I don't think I've heard anything drive them with the authority that my Lyr has. The bass definitely has become more powerful along with other aspects of it's sound but if your a huge fan of hip hop and rap I doubt the Lyr paired with the 600's is going to sway you from wanting something with more bass. It's still a great combination though. I haven't owned multiple headphones for a while so haven't been able to test it with anything other then my Senns but imagine it will drive just about any headphones you have or may buy in the future with ease. Whether it synergizes well with them or not though is a different story.

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post #5 of 9
1/29/12 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 

obobskivich, I'm assuming with balanced re-cables (I didn't even know the Cardas were balanced), it would make sense to drive them with a balanced amp and to have a balanced source? Forgive my ignorance. You also said that "DAC may be irrelevant, with a good player." Do the players you suggested fall under the category of "good players"? If not, do you have a DAC in mind?

 

Instead of starting a thread with supposedly how much I thought I knew, I should have simply started it by asking advice. Knowing that I have a pair of 600's and a Bellari tube amp, what do you think should be my next upgrade? Or, in other words, where do you think my money will be best spent for optimizing the experience of listening to jazz/classical/acoustic? What would give me the most noticeable difference in sound? Would it be better to pool my money for a more expensive amplifier (as bmbrown sort of suggested)? Or should I get a new pair of headphones first? I'm really lost, but I thank you from keeping me from spending a large amount of money on things for which I may not have even recognized an improvement.

 

And thank you bmbrown for sharing your experience with the Lyr. 

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post #6 of 9
1/30/12 at 4:34am


Yes you would need a balanced amplifier; I pointed this out because balanced amplifiers aren't exactly cheap. A balanced source may or may not matter; most source devices aren't "fully balanced" (that doesn't matter), but they do have XLR outputs (that does matter) - some balanced amplifiers don't have XLR inputs though. angry_face.gif

 

I'm not married to the concept, but admittedly the only balanced drive headphones I've heard are stats (so I have no idea if there would be an improvement if I were to, for example, re-wire my K701). 

 

Regarding the DAC comment, yes, the things I suggested would fit into that (I'll make this more broad: anything new and relatively expensive (hundreds of dollars)). 

 

The biggest/most dramatic/whatever upgrade/change would be another pair of headphones. After that, tougher to say. I would rank cables "low" on the Obobskivich Change-O-Meter (TM), and amplifiers potentially "low" as well (it depends on whether or not what you have now, sucks at doing what it needs to do, if it does, then it becomes "high" - tubes vs SS would probably get a "medium" to a "high" again depending on what you're going from/to).

 

An example of a balanced amplifier would be the CEC HD53N, which you could drive with something like an Oppo BDP-95. That's about $2k. Plus whatever the balanced wire rig costs for the HD 600 (I vaguely remember HeadRoom selling a balanced cable based on the HD 650 leads for around $50, maybe they still do; I'm guessing the Cardas costs more). For that money you could buy a hell of a lot of headphones, or one really wicked expensive headphone. Just food for thought.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrr226 View Post

obobskivich, I'm assuming with balanced re-cables (I didn't even know the Cardas were balanced), it would make sense to drive them with a balanced amp and to have a balanced source? Forgive my ignorance. You also said that "DAC may be irrelevant, with a good player." Do the players you suggested fall under the category of "good players"? If not, do you have a DAC in mind?

 

Instead of starting a thread with supposedly how much I thought I knew, I should have simply started it by asking advice. Knowing that I have a pair of 600's and a Bellari tube amp, what do you think should be my next upgrade? Or, in other words, where do you think my money will be best spent for optimizing the experience of listening to jazz/classical/acoustic? What would give me the most noticeable difference in sound? Would it be better to pool my money for a more expensive amplifier (as bmbrown sort of suggested)? Or should I get a new pair of headphones first? I'm really lost, but I thank you from keeping me from spending a large amount of money on things for which I may not have even recognized an improvement.

 

And thank you bmbrown for sharing your experience with the Lyr. 



 

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post #7 of 9
1/30/12 at 12:12pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks again, obobskivich. I'm looking into the Oppo BDPs (I've always wanted a blu-ray player), but it seems there are some (audio) upgrades for it, and I'm not sure if it's worth it. The BDP-93 sells for 500, which is reasonable and doesn't necessarily make me want to cry. Now, they have a Nuforce BDP-93 for 900 and a Nuforce Extreme Edition for 1400. Honestly, 900 dollars is about as high as I'm willing to go, but am I even going to notice that much of a difference? (Here's the site by the way: http://estore.nuforce.com/nuforce-bdp-93-nuforce-edition-based-on-oppo-bdp-93/ ). Something tells me that I'd be perfectly happy with the stock BDP-93 and using that $400 I'd save toward a new set of cans.

 

Also, how do you like the K701s? It was between those and the 600s for me, so I'm curious what-could-have-been.

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post #8 of 9
1/30/12 at 12:35pm
Thread Starter 

Oh, and after searching through some headphones, the Denon AH-D5000s are looking pretty nice....

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post #9 of 9
1/30/12 at 4:54pm

I'm not very familiar with the NuForce upgrades, but I know the BDP-95 is supposed to be an across-the-board step-up from the BDP-93. If I was going to spend $900+, I'd get the 95 and not worry about it. 

 

Regarding the headphone comparison (I own the HD 580, not the HD 600, but they're very similar):

 

The K701

 

- Has less bass impact but better bass quality

 

- Has a bigger, more coherent soundstage

 

- Has more detail extraction

 

- Has better upper mids/treble

 

The Sennheiser, on the other hand

 

- Has a "smoother" overall presentation

 

- Is more "fun" with some music

 

- Can really lend itself to background/passive listening as it "melts away" 

 

One quirk with the Sennheiser is that I find them boring for movies; to be completely fair, the AKGs aren't a whole lot better.

 

Personally, the K701 is one of my favorite headphones (it's my favorite dynamic headphone), but I can't bring myself to part with the Sennheiser. Both are special in their own way. The Denons, on the other hand, did not last. 

 

 

 

 

 

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