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line out difference: an ipod touch 3G vs ipod classic 5G

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

I want to use my i-device with amp via line out signal

I already have an ipod touch 3G, is it worth to buy an ipod classic 5G?

 

which of those have better line out?  is the difference noticeable ?

 

I hear that the line out signal of the ipods, is not real triportsad.gif

 

thanks


Edited by heart banger-97 - 1/23/12 at 1:57am
post #2 of 17

The touch 3G line out is really good and better than the Classic or even 4G in my opinion. It's weakness is it's amp. I heard a bunch of the Apples and the 3G's line out is the best of the bunch. I've also heard good things about the Iphone 4s but haven't experienced it's line out so couldn't say how that one compares as an amp source.

post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

The touch 3G line out is really good and better than the Classic or even 4G in my opinion. It's weakness is it's amp. I heard a bunch of the Apples and the 3G's line out is the best of the bunch. I've also heard good things about the Iphone 4s but haven't experienced it's line out so couldn't say how that one compares as an amp source.

 

thanks, I heard that the old ipods have better sound quality from headphone out put   ( sorry for my english)

 

www.macintoshhowto.com/itunes/which-ipod-has-the-best-audio-quality.html

 

so I want to know which ipod has the best line out signal quality?

 

I'm just curios about what you said about the itouch's line out signal quality against ipod classic 4G ; because I have seen red wine audio's website that modify imod from 4th or 5th generations of ipod classics , not ipod touch 3g. so I was thought that the line out signal quality of the ipod 4G & 5G must be better than any other idevice. do you have any advice for me? I'm so confused.


Edited by heart banger-97 - 1/23/12 at 6:42am
post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by heart banger-97 View Post

I heard that the old ipods have better sound quality from headphone out put   ( sorry for my english)

http://www.macintoshhowto.com/itunes/which-ipod-has-the-best-audio-quality.html

Take that article with a grain of salt. The author failed to do research diligently. For example, after referencing a 2005 article that claims that the (first generation) Shuffle has superior sound quality compared to other iPods, he then "verifies" the claim about the Shuffle using a second generation Shuffle (model A1204), which uses a completely different audio chip than the first generation. (The 1G uses a SigmaTel chip, not a Cirrus chip.)
Edited by Jaywalk3r - 1/23/12 at 9:21am
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post


Take that article with a grain of salt. The author failed to do research diligently. For example, after referencing a 2005 article that claims that the (first generation) Shuffle has superior sound quality compared to other iPods, he then "verifies" the claim about the Shuffle using a second generation Shuffle (model A1204), which uses a completely different audio chip than the first generation. (The 1G uses a SigmaTel chip, not a Cirrus chip.)


 

it's not just that article that mentioned this. red wine audio and many of headfiers also have mentioned some things like this .

 

I just want to know, which of them ,has the better line out signal quality

post #6 of 17

Even the chip sets barely tell the story. People really get hung up on Wofson DACs for instance. It's a small part of the equation. The solid state memory units tend to sound better with similar surrounding hardware/software. The 3gs amp is suspect for some uses and not as controlled as some others but the pre out is very good.

post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Even the chip sets barely tell the story. People really get hung up on Wofson DACs for instance. It's a small part of the equation. The solid state memory units tend to sound better with similar surrounding hardware/software. The 3gs amp is suspect for some uses and not as controlled as some others but the pre out is very good.

thanks for your replying
I have two question?
1-do you believe, that i touch has a real line out ( purest', unmodified, uncolored analog signal) ?

I read , when he says:

 

Quote:
But the fact is, most if not all portable player on the market doesn't really have a real line-out

 

and

 

Quote:
one of those player is your regular iPod

 

and then he says : 

 

Quote:
This is why a few years back, a group of people start to modify iPod and sell it as 'iMod', an iPod that has its real line-out signal

 

and in the last, he says:

 

Quote:
Note 1: Post 5.5G iPod models do have a direct line-out (via LOD) based on Apple's own DAC chip. It is still arguable whether it sounds better than iMod, but it is said to be the best , clearest line-out signal across all generation of iPod.

I think that he has mentioned all of these in 2009

 

http://www.inearmatters.net/2008/12/to-amp-or-not-to-amp.html

 

2- do you believe, that it's better to make an imod from an itouch? it's necessary to quote some sentences that is mentioned on red wine audio website

Quote:

Will you ever modify the 6th generation iPods (”iPod Classic”)

No – these use what we have found to be an inferior sounding dac and the sound cannot be improved upon. The sound quality of the 4G, 5G, and 5.5G iMods are far superior. If the newest iPods could be improved and were worth the effort to mod, we would have enjoyed offering an iMod for them and the business this would have created for us.

http://redwineaudio.com/imod


Edited by heart banger-97 - 1/24/12 at 1:49am
post #8 of 17
this is all wolfson fanboy shiz, it is warmer sounding and more analogue sounding, the newer iPod's like my 7G Classic has the cirrus, but sounds very good, more cold/detailed/analytical, which i dont mind.

They only did iMod because the headphone out suffers from colouration because of the components used along the way. The newer iPods have a cleaner more direct signal from DAC to amp to headphone out, that is why they dont need to mod them. The 5/5.5G has a very weak headphone out.

Beware of wolfson fanboys, the newest 7G classic is a lot better than 6G classic, and a lot think that the 7G sounds great from the headphone out.

Regards
post #9 of 17
one more thing, the 5/5.5G have a steep high frequency roll off, and the newest 7G has a flat frequency response. I would take all of what people say with a grain of salt.

Regards
post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomkid View Post

one more thing, the 5/5.5G have a steep high frequency roll off, and the newest 7G has a flat frequency response. I would take all of what people say with a grain of salt.
Regards


 

thanks for your recommendations

i want to use them with an amp via line out

I was thought that some one like

 

res ipod's DACs?

post #11 of 17
post #12 of 17

Applying old article to new device might not always get you the right answer. When that article of mine was written back then, the 6th G was barely out and Apply has just changed their previous policy of leaving the chip marking intact. Instead, Apple started to remark most of the chip they used since 6G, making it much harder to know exactly what chip it was (and of course all the detail about its spec and performance). That being said, most mass marketed DAP todays still lack true 'line-out' - the word is used to described the output of line-level, best possible, cleanest, highest SNR signal in the system. Instead, a lot of resistors, caps and even FM circuit are put between the DAC's line-out pins and the connector on the housing (and that's assuming we are not getting the buffered amp signal on the first place). Manufacturer still call it line-out, as do we most of the time. But are these the best signal you can get?  At least for me, 'line-out', from what manufacturer want us to believe in, is more myth than a electronic standard. If they even have a standard to define line-out, we will be getting 2Vrms instead of 0.5Vrms from most iPod / iPhone's line-out (and most other DAP as well). It is the best we was given, but probably not the best that we could have been given. But in the portable world, compromises are everything.

 

Admittedly, I don't know much about the 7th G. I only own one iPod and (hopefully) never need to get another one. I am not a iPod hater, just never quite see iPod as the cure-all as a DAP user - as good as they are..

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

Applying old article to new device might not always get you the right answer. When that article of mine was written back then, the 6th G was barely out and Apply has just changed their previous policy of leaving the chip marking intact. Instead, Apple started to remark most of the chip they used since 6G, making it much harder to know exactly what chip it was (and of course all the detail about its spec and performance). That being said, most mass marketed DAP todays still lack true 'line-out' - the word is used to described the output of line-level, best possible, cleanest, highest SNR signal in the system. Instead, a lot of resistors, caps and even FM circuit are put between the DAC's line-out pins and the connector on the housing (and that's assuming we are not getting the buffered amp signal on the first place). Manufacturer still call it line-out, as do we most of the time. But are these the best signal you can get?  At least for me, 'line-out', from what manufacturer want us to believe in, is more myth than a electronic standard. If they even have a standard to define line-out, we will be getting 2Vrms instead of 0.5Vrms from most iPod / iPhone's line-out (and most other DAP as well). It is the best we was given, but probably not the best that we could have been given. But in the portable world, compromises are everything.

 

Admittedly, I don't know much about the 7th G. I only own one iPod and (hopefully) never need to get another one. I am not a iPod hater, just never quite see iPod as the cure-all as a DAP user - as good as they are..


thanks,

I just searching about a comparison between line out quality of all idevice models, and it seems that no one do this before.

thank you again for your reviews and recommendations. I have learned a lot of things from someone like you.

 


Edited by heart banger-97 - 1/24/12 at 8:58am
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomkid View Post

read this thread-
head-fi.org/t/579308/ipod-classic-7th-gen-specifics


thanks
I read all of 70 comments, and  really enjoyed  reading them

 

post #15 of 17

i hope you got some kind of idea. and ClieOs is great, and has helped me a lot too.

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