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Is the Hifiman HE-6 clearly a league above the Hifiman HE-500? - Page 8

post #106 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

Put the lot on a speaker amp with a quality power supply and the 6 takes it IMO. I had both for a direct comparison and I kept the 6. I'd say the 500s gets 90-95% of the 6s being pushed hard. The sound at low levels were pretty even. I liked the extension detail, more open soundstage and just a bit more resolution.

If you put all of the headphones discussed recently on speaker amps then some of them would be over- powered, so in that sense I'm sure the HE6 would win.

post #107 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

If you put all of the headphones discussed recently on speaker amps then some of them would be over- powered, so in that sense I'm sure the HE6 would win.

 

 

What do you mean "over powered" ?  That's what the volume control is for.  I've put most of my headphones on the same speaker tap.

post #108 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

What do you mean "over powered" ?  That's what the volume control is for.  I've put most of my headphones on the same speaker tap.

Too much current is as bad as too little. Heaphones that have been designed to work on low impedance headphone amps will not play well when blasted with too much wattage. Even the Lyr is a little too much for the HE500's from what I've read. You will end up with distortion. 

post #109 of 406

You know that a lot of speakers can get perfectly acceptable volumes out of speaker taps with just a fraction of a watt.

post #110 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

You know that a lot of speakers can get perfectly acceptable volumes out of speaker taps with just a fraction of a watt.

I can get perfectly acceptable volume from my portable headphone amp with the HE500's... but it sounds like schitt compared to an amp with more adequate current.

 

Amp matching with headphones is important. It has to be, all amps and headphones have different power and different power requirements.

post #111 of 406

That wasn't my argument.  My argument was that speaker taps shouldn't be bad to a headphone if your'e not stupid with the volume pot.  Afterall, turning the volume pot up 1% isn't like giving the headphones 1% of power of 100 watts.

 

I question a planar magnetic's 'amp matching'.  They have a flat impedance curve.  Of course there could be coloration of the amp itself, but probably not much.  It could just be a more refined amp could be giving what you guys like to call synergy, but the fundamental nature of driving should be getting a headphone or speaker loud enough without clipping or distortion.


Edited by TMRaven - 9/22/12 at 11:33am
post #112 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Too much current is as bad as too little. Heaphones that have been designed to work on low impedance headphone amps will not play well when blasted with too much wattage. Even the Lyr is a little too much for the HE500's from what I've read. You will end up with distortion. 

 

 

You control it with the volume pot.  You just wouldn't have much to play with.  Now I have not tried my Denons or my Ed8s.

post #113 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

That wasn't my argument.  My argument was that speaker taps shouldn't be bad to a headphone if your'e not stupid with the volume pot.  Afterall, turning the volume pot up 1% isn't like giving the headphones 1% of power of 100 watts.

 

I question a planar magnetic's 'amp matching'.  They have a flat impedance curve.  Of course there could be coloration of the amp itself, but probably not much.  It could just be a more refined amp could be giving what you guys like to call synergy, but the fundamental nature of driving should be getting a headphone or speaker loud enough without clipping or distortion.

If that is the case, shouldn't the HE6's be driven ok on normal headphone amps? The LCD2's and HE500 are, why not the HE6's?

post #114 of 406

I've asked the same question to others already, and they couldn't give me a concrete, scientific answer, only hypothesis.  I'm not denying the HE6 needs power in my previous comments, I'm merely countering your statement about speaker taps possibly being bad on other headphones.  The volume pot doesn't distribute power in a linear way.

post #115 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

You control it with the volume pot.  You just wouldn't have much to play with.  Now I have not tried my Denons or my Ed8s.

 

Hook up those denons! Lets get a nice D7000 fire rolling! 

post #116 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

Hook up those denons! Lets get a nice D7000 fire rolling! 

 

 

Yeah - I was about to.  I thought twice.  They look to damn purdy.  

post #117 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

If that is the case, shouldn't the HE6's be driven ok on normal headphone amps? The LCD2's and HE500 are, why not the HE6's?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

I've asked the same question to others already, and they couldn't give me a concrete, scientific answer, only hypothesis.  I'm not denying the HE6 needs power in my previous comments, I'm merely countering your statement about speaker taps possibly being bad on other headphones.  The volume pot doesn't distribute power in a linear way.

 

That's a really good question. In my experience with the HE-6 (I've owned it since it's release), I have attached it to many many amplifiers. Any headphone amplifier made the treble close to sibilant and the bass very lean. When I finally hooked it up to speaker amps the treble wasn't as shrill and bass quantity and control was very impressive. I'm not an expert as to why, but I believe it's due to the large voltage swings the speaker amps can put out. 

post #118 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

I haven't.  Did you see what I quoted?  What the heck is summit-fi anyway?   I only go by Hi, Mid or Low end.  Beside know one hear but your self is talking about bang for your buck.  I'm talking about pur performance.

 

Also it's very obvious you have not heard the HE-6 on a speaker amp going by your "bright and fatiguing" and "they don't have satisfying bass slam" commit.  

 

Do you really think people yes yourself included should follow "Innerfidelity, Headfonia etc" when they compare these headphones on something like the Lyr?  You got it all wrong.

 

Sir,

 

You have been mislead.

 

"Summit-fi" = High End = Top Tier = semantics for headphones that sound World Class.

 

Performance is by and large subjective, but, as we've discussed before, if you remove price from the equation then the HE-6s get rocked by Stax SR-009s. That the HE-6s sound marginally better when hooked up to speaker taps is wonderful if not for the fact it's almost double the cost.

 

Other users have reported similar bright and fatiguing treble on the HE-6 and it's certainly more sibilence prone than the HE-500s, a simple look at a frequency chart would even tell you that. The bass slam is good on the HE-6s via speaker taps, I said it wasn't AS satisfying as on the HE-500s, which to me it isn't.

 

Yes, I'd be more inclined to follow Tyll Hertsens' reviews than your HE-6 crusading in every single thread about planar magnetic headphones (especially as you've never actually heard the HE-500s). That said, I'm even more inclined to follow what my own ears tell me. 

 

Again for the benefit of those who didn't read it already, the HE-6s are the better phones when running in optimal conditions. There are however reasons to pick the HE-500s instead, both sonically and financially.


Edited by Darkbeat - 9/22/12 at 1:03pm
post #119 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkbeat View Post

 

"Summit-fi" = High End = Top Tier = semantics for headphones that sound World Class.

 

Performance is by and large subjective, but, as we've discussed before, if you remove price from the equation then the HE-6s get rocked by Stax SR-009s. That the HE-6s sound marginally better when hooked up to speaker taps is wonderful if not for the fact it's almost double the cost.

 

Other users have reported similar bright and fatiguing treble on the HE-6 and it's certainly more sibilence prone than the HE-500s, a simple look at a frequency chart would even tell you that. The bass slam is good on the HE-6s via speaker taps, I said it wasn't AS satisfying as on the HE-500s, which to me it isn't.

 

Yes, I'd be more inclined to follow Tyll Hertsens' reviews than your HE-6 crusading in every single thread about planar magnetic headphones (especially as you've never actually heard the HE-500s). That said, I'm even more inclined to follow what my own ears tell me. 

 

Again for the benefit of those who didn't read it already, the HE-6s are the better phones when running in optimal conditions. There are however reasons to pick the HE-500s instead, both sonically and financially.

 

"Summit-fi" is just a label to make people feel good about their purchases (which by and large is a reason why many people make high end purchases,  the feeling of 'eliteness'). 

 

I think the clear point to make is that the HE-6 are not marginally better on speaker taps, but all the complaints you hear about the HE-6 (spikey treble, lack of bass, etc.) are pretty much eliminated. I'm not saying hooking it up to your $200 denon receiver will do this, but hooking it up to a high quality amp really changes the sound. 

 

I think for most people the HE-500 makes sense. Actually, it makes a lot of sense. If you're not in the market to have a rig centered on the HE-6, and you want a range of headphones, then go for the HE-500. But if you're looking for something a little clearer and can have another amp hooked up to your DAC, go with the HE-6. 

post #120 of 406

I want to know where the EF-6 fits into this discussion, since Hifiman recommends using it with the HE-6.

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