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How I chose my high-end headphones.... Almost!! (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, Mbox 3,...

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Hi Head-fi,

I have to thank you all first for introducing me to the world of good sound. I have been a passive member of Head-fi for over 5 years!! But I have been using it more like Wikipedia than a forum!! I never felt the need to ask anything, because I found all the answers I needed by just browsing through.
 

Skip this part if you dont want the history!

--------

When I was in college, I was living in a dark era called Aroma, the local $2 earphones! (But, they still have my back... about that later).  I got into small time music production and needed some good headphones. When I came to know that there are headphones that even costs $2000, I was like 'Are they serious? How much better can the sound get anyway?!'. So I kept my budget pretty low, thinking that would be a smart move. But luckily, I came across head-fi and after reading a lot of threads, decided to get a PX-100. That was the beginning. I was blown away by the difference in sound. I was hearing things I had never heard in my favourite songs. Even in the songs I myself made lol! But I didnt think of an upgrade until I got a degree and a job. Then again, after studying Head-fi, I chose to buy a HD555 and then did a mod to it that increased its soundstage and bass punch and made it similar to 595. I was skeptical at first, but it actually did change the sound. I tested a lot, A/B, modding just one can, etc. Definitely sound was a LOT better than PX100 and I never touched any other hps/eps again... I even stopped using my speakers. Life was beautiful.....
-------

... Until someone stole by headphones!! I got pretty pissed off. I had to produce a remix of I'm Not a Gangsta by Lights Over Paris. And since I lost my HD595 (and my PX100's driver blew up), I had to do the mixing with my $2 earphones! But I guess I still managed to do a decent job with them. I'm glad I dint throw em away!
In case anyone wants to listen to my work, here are the links -


Anyway, after a month of searching, I finally gave up and faced the truth. It's gone. I've got to get a new pair. And this time, I'm gonna get something that's gonna stay as THE hps I'd use for years to come.

Where I live, 99% of the people only buy cheap headphones from Philips and Panasonic. And now, Skull candy. They have not even heard of AKG/Beyer/Denon. But Senn is becoming famous. Hence, I cannot test any of these headphones before I buy them. And I can only order online. And I pay twice the amount U guys pay. I hate my life :(
So although my budget is 500$, I can only get hps that are available for under 300$ in the US. After a lot of reading, I finally came up with these.

Short List:
Superlux HD668B / Samson SR850
BeyerDynamic DT880 600 ohms

 

AKG K702 62 ohms

Those that didnt make it and why:
BeyerDynamic DT880 (32 and 250 ohms) - Lower sound quality than the 600 ohm version according to people here more knowledgeable than I am
Sennheiser HD600/650 - Veil or not, I do love the Sennheiser sound as both the headphones I had before where from Senn. But, I since it has a darker signature, I would tend to EQ up the high freqs of the master channel more than required to compensate for it. This would mean the final rendered track would be brighter than required.
Audio-Technica and Grado cans - they are more oriented towards the consumers looking for a great listening experience than studio purposes.

 


I have read great things about Superlux/Samson. But sadly, I have no way to test. I dont even know whether they would be an improvement over HD555/595. But I hope it is safe to assume they are not as good as DT880 or K702 (otherwise, they would have been mentioned in the top hps lists here and at headroom)

So we come down to two. The two phones from the trio. I have seen how threads about these go usually, so I would stay away from sensitive comparisons. From what I understand, DT880 accentuates highs more and bass less. HD650 is darker. And K702 lies in the middle. I thought, middle is good and I almost bought it through ebay when I came across this - 
http://www.headfonia.com/old-school-trio-akg-k701-beyer-dt880-sennheiser-hd650/
I
 have also read a loooong thread about this specific comparison too. So I will keep that away as well. 

 



What I want to know:
1) I like a wide soundstage. But not so much that there is no focus on the center. If I produce a 4/4 kick pattern, I want the kick sound coming from the exact center. I dont want it stretched. Mike's review at headfonia explains how he feels K702 has no focus. I read that the DT880 has a good soundstage as well, without losing focus. I have also read somewhere that both DT880 and K702 have similar soundstage.
Can someone who has/tried both the headphones please tell me what they feel about this when listening to "Madonna - Crazy For You" or a similar track.

2) I have an Avid Mbox Mini. Not the old Mbox or Mbox 2. This is the third version, some call it Mbox 3 Mini. It could power the 55 ohms HD555 really well. I had the volume control down to about 25%, which was pretty loud for me. Hence, I feel the 62 ohms K702 could be powered easily by it. I could be wrong, in which case the amp options I have are - HA400 Behringer, FiiO E6 and Pyle-Pro PHA40. (I dont think headroom amps ship internationally). Which of these would be able to drive the K702? Can they handle the DT880 as well? Or is my Mbox sufficient? 

 

 
The Avid site says that the Mbox mini has the following output characteristics - 20mW into 32 R. The rated impedance is around 55 ohms. So the damping factor when connected to DT880 600 Ohms would be around 12 while it would be close to 1 with K702. I dont know how this would affect the sound. 
 
I would prefer not to put anything in between the audio interface and the headphone because that would be another level of noise/distortion in the chain.



Points that influence my decision making (DT880 vs K702) -
1) I dont like metal and screeching/shrill sounds. But I like all the other genres like Pop, Rock, Electronic, Jazz, etc. Hence, K702. Read that the DT880 is a bit sharp sounding.
2) I love the look of K702 more, but read that DT880s headbands are more comfortable. Tie
3) Soundstage - havent decided. Need help.
4) Impedance - Need help.
 

I wish I could test these out once by playing something like Nick Lachey's Ghosts. I feel I wont be going wrong by chosing either of these heavyweights though.

Hope you guys can help me out. 
Thanks to all again.
Ash


Edited by aswin - 1/19/12 at 5:35pm
post #2 of 17

Headphones good for enjoyment and good for studio use are often not the same ones. For studio use you need tonal accuracy and flat frequency response, the popular studio headphones are Sony MDR-7506, MDR-V6 Sennheiser HD280 and etc. K701 has tonality that is not exactly accurate, DT880 and HD650 aren't the prime example of flat frequency response. Those are 'hifi' headphones more for enjoyment purpose.

post #3 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue View Post

Headphones good for enjoyment and good for studio use are often not the same ones. For studio use you need tonal accuracy and flat frequency response, the popular studio headphones are Sony MDR-7506, MDR-V6 Sennheiser HD280 and etc. K701 has tonality that is not exactly accurate, DT880 and HD650 aren't the prime example of flat frequency response. Those are 'hifi' headphones more for enjoyment purpose.


The DT880 is flat. 

 

I've done a bit of live mixing and recordings in the past years and my reference can is the HD600. The DT880 may not be as flat as the HD600 but it's in the same league. I haven't heard the K701 so I won't comment on it.

 

post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the replies.

I have already decided that I would get either the DT880 or the K701/702. I know that tonality is subjective and everyone will be having a different opinion and we'll never get to a conclusion, but I think soundstage can be analysed more correctly. What I need is a comparison of their soundstages and whether the devices I listed (MBox 3, HA400 Behringer, FiiO E6 or Pyle-Pro PHA40) can power them.

post #5 of 17

DT880 has recessed midrange, as for how much it can be subjective, albeit not as much as DT990, it is not unnoticeable especially when compared to the AKG Kx01s, however tonality wise it is definitely more accurate.

post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by aswin View Post

whether the devices I listed (MBox 3, HA400 Behringer, FiiO E6 or Pyle-Pro PHA40) can power them.


None of these look particularly great. The FiiO E6 is a low end amplifier designed mainly for portable use with low impedance headphones.Both the Behringer and the Pyle Pro have very similar specs, with high output impedance (80 Ohm), which makes them worse than the FiiO for the K70x, but they will output at least twice as much power to the DT880-600 (still not that much, about 16 mW). I do not have much information about the MBox 3, but on some forum I read people complaining about the "Mini" version of it being too weak to power high impedance headphones.

 

post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 

The Avid site says that the Mbox mini has the following output characteristics - 20mW into 32 R. The rated impedance is around 55 ohms.
So the damping factor when connected to DT880 600 Ohms would be around 12 while it would be close to 1 with K702. I dont know how this would affect the sound. 

I would prefer not to put anything in between the audio interface and the headphone because that would be another level of noise/distortion in the chain.

(I will edit the original post with these details.)

post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by aswin View Post

The Avid site says that the Mbox mini has the following output characteristics - 20mW into 32 R. The rated impedance is around 55 ohms.

 

Where does the site say the output impedance ? I only found the 20 mW into 32Ω in the PDF file. But if it is true, it will output a maximum of about 2 Vrms, or 6.67 mW into 600Ω.

 

post #9 of 17

k702 requires much more power then that, if not the soundstage wont be deep enough and you will get bloater bass.

 

never consider the k702 , if you are not going to buy headphone amp for them .

 

read around they are the hardest to drive headphone out here ( leaving aside k1000, HE6 and some old orthos )

post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

Where does the site say the output impedance ? I only found the 20 mW into 32Ω in the PDF file. But if it is true, it will output a maximum of about 2 Vrms, or 6.67 mW into 600Ω.

 



Sorry. I think that was the specs of mbox 2 mini. --> 6mW into 50 ohm
They havent mentioned the impedance of Mbox 3 Mini in ohms. Does 32R mean 32 Ohms? (I dunno whether that's a dumb question. It's been a long time since I touched my physics books)


Anyway, I had sent a dozen emails to AKG, Beyer and Avid. All of them wrote back saying the headphones would work, but the output will be very low. Beyer suggested to go with the 25 Ohm version, but I have read that these are not as good as the 600 Ohms ones, quality wise. 

@singh
And a quick turn of events occured when a seller mailed me with pricing details of K702 and DT880 PRO 600 Ohms. The DT880 costs about half of what K702 does! From what I know, the DT880 Pro is just a DT880 with a tighter headband, which is cool cos I have a tiny head lol. I'm a bit skeptical about the price, but if he's selling a genuine one, I think I'll go for it and buy a 200$ amp too.
 

The DT880 might not be as neutral as the K702/Q701 and might not have such a wide soundstage and I like the K702's looks better. But DT880 with a good amp is better than a naked K702. Atleast that's what I'm thinking now.


Edited by aswin - 1/20/12 at 4:12am
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by aswin View Post

They havent mentioned the impedance of Mbox 3 Mini in ohms. Does 32R mean 32 Ohms? (I dunno whether that's a dumb question. It's been a long time since I touched my physics books)

 

Yes, it means 20 mW into 32Ω, or 0.8 Vrms (which is comparable to an iPod). But since the output impedance and maximum current are not known for sure, the voltage output to 600Ω may be higher. But since people complained about it being too weak to drive an HD6xx, I would not expect too much.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by aswin View Post

And a quick turn of events occured when a seller mailed me with pricing details of K702 and DT880 PRO 600 Ohms. The DT880 costs about half of what K702 does! From what I know, the DT880 Pro is just a DT880 with a tighter headband, which is cool cos I have a tiny head lol. I'm a bit skeptical about the price, but if he's selling a genuine one, I think I'll go for it and buy a 200$ amp too.

 

There is officially no 600Ω DT880 Pro, it is only available in 250Ω version. But some people seem to have it nevertheless, maybe it is some kind of custom built version, and hopefully not something that is refurbished from parts of different old headphones and re-sold as "new". If it is genuine, then it is definitely worth getting, and with the money left you can also buy a good amplifier.

 

post #12 of 17

yup , even a  naked 880 is better than a naked k702. K702 unamped is nothing , but everything changes after its amped.

 

BTW , how much for the dt880, from what i know they should be about the same (k702 and dt880 )

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 

12000 INR!! I have asked them to confirm whether it's a PRO 250 or the 600 Ohms version. And whether it's refurbished or a demo sample or something. Awaiting their reply.

post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

There is officially no 600Ω DT880 Pro, it is only available in 250Ω version. But some people seem to have it nevertheless, maybe it is some kind of custom built version, and hopefully not something that is refurbished from parts of different old headphones and re-sold as "new". If it is genuine, then it is definitely worth getting, and with the money left you can also buy a good amplifier.

 



You are right. It was a typo on their ad. It's the 600 Ohms version.

Tube amps are better for the DT880s than SS, right?

post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by aswin View Post



Tube amps are better for the DT880s than SS, right?



It is not only subjective, but you are also making a gross generalisation.

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