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A Concise View of Why The ATH-M50 is No Longer King - Page 47

post #691 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

940 yes - but the 840 are built pretty well IMO.  I had no issues with (both) my pairs when i owned them.  The 940 though is a train wreck.

The shop's demo 840 is broken in the same place, the thin plastic extender piece, though they are indeed tougher than the srh940 just because they don't have so many damn hinges. Not to mention they are a little on the heavy side.

post #692 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetdragon View Post
 

The shop's demo 840 is broken in the same place, the thin plastic extender piece, though they are indeed tougher than the srh940 just because they don't have so many damn hinges. Not to mention they are a little on the heavy side.

 

Would be interested to see how they've been treated SD.  There are people on Head-Fi who've had there 840's for years.  I still rate it as one of the best closed budget cans out there.  Yes they're heavy - but I found them very comfortable.  YMMV.

 

The 940 though (I owned it too) - even owners who've babied their gear have had failures.  Good sounding (weird bass though) - but very poorly designed.

post #693 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

Would be interested to see how they've been treated SD.  There are people on Head-Fi who've had there 840's for years.  I still rate it as one of the best closed budget cans out there.  Yes they're heavy - but I found them very comfortable.  YMMV.

 

The 940 though (I owned it too) - even owners who've babied their gear have had failures.  Good sounding (weird bass though) - but very poorly designed.

Well since they are demo's they probably haven't been treated too well. So I cannot say for sure how tough long term they are compared the M50, DT770 and similar products since i haven't had prolonged experience with them. Though the extenders look similar in construction.

The SRH940 though i agree it is rubbish. Then my friend first got it we thought it was a tank until it started to crack, sent it in for warranty repair, cracked again a month or 2 later. The pressure of the clamping alone was enough to stress the extenders on bigger heads till it breaks. He got so fed up until I performed a DT770 headband transplant for him. 
I must say though with the beyer headband's increased clamping force the bass actually seems to be more present now.

Why Shure why.?
"Cause... Shure why not"

post #694 of 855
So I got the M50x today. I love almost everything about them - comfort, looks, the amount of detail I hear, and ESPECIALLY that I can wear them around my neck. Now that I know that it's actually doable and comfortable, it's going to be a must for whatever headphones I settle on.

The reason I'm not settling on these is because I feel they're a bit light on bass quantity. So, what I'm asking is, is there a pair of headphones out there with comparable sound quality, with more bass/a more v-shaped signature, AND that can be worn comfortably around the neck like the M50s can be? Which means a headband that extends the same amount or more, cups that are the same size or smaller, and the ability to rotate the cups flat.

Ultrasones might seem like the answer to what I'm looking for but I tried the Pro 750s and they were not comfortable to wear around the neck. Cup size was too large for the amount of headband extension. I'm not sure if the other ones, like the H-FI series, would be similarly designed.

Edit: on second thought, my head hurts a bit. Clamping force + shallow cramped pads, maybe? I've dealt with worse. There's probably a pad switch I could do, right? Right?
Edited by typhoon838 - 6/3/14 at 4:32pm
post #695 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon838 View Post

So I got the M50x today. I love almost everything about them - comfort, looks, the amount of detail I hear, and ESPECIALLY that I can wear them around my neck. Now that I know that it's actually doable and comfortable, it's going to be a must for whatever headphones I settle on.

The reason I'm not settling on these is because I feel they're a bit light on bass quantity. So, what I'm asking is, is there a pair of headphones out there with comparable sound quality, with more bass/a more v-shaped signature, AND that can be worn comfortably around the neck like the M50s can be? Which means a headband that extends the same amount or more, cups that are the same size or smaller, and the ability to rotate the cups flat.

Ultrasones might seem like the answer to what I'm looking for but I tried the Pro 750s and they were not comfortable to wear around the neck. Cup size was too large for the amount of headband extension. I'm not sure if the other ones, like the H-FI series, would be similarly designed.

Edit: on second thought, my head hurts a bit. Clamping force + shallow cramped pads, maybe? I've dealt with worse. There's probably a pad switch I could do, right? Right?

V-Moda M-100

 

I never found the M50 to be uncomfortable. 

post #696 of 855
I had the Crossfade LPs at one point, and they were both very uncomfortable and unwearable around the neck. I thought the M100s were almost physically the same. I know I can get the XL pads to improve comfort, but that still leaves the issue of convenience.
post #697 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post


 

I'm sorry if I'm coming off this way. I don't care what you wear on your head (I regularly use my M50 and it's a headphone that I enjoy); I simply wanted to document the decline of the M50 on Head-Fi. I do honestly believe, however, that most higher-ranked Head-Fi members will have a less favorable view of the M50. I'm not saying they don't enjoy it or that they hate it by any means, but I do think that most that have tried other cans in the price range hold it on less of a crowning pedestal.

Lol

post #698 of 855

There are quite a few different products which get hyped on Head-fi (eg M-100, M-80,DX100, Studio V 3rd Anniversary etc). They get hyped because many people own them or have heard them and like them. Whether this hype is deserved is a matter of opinion. At the end of the day there's no right or wrong answer when it comes to sound quality. There's always going to be someone who disagrees, and will promote some other product. It's an example of "Tall Poppy Syndrome".

 

"The tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers."

 

-Wikipedia.

 

However, the suggestion that somehow the opinions of "higher-ranked Head-Fi members" is more valued than others, is laughable.

post #699 of 855
Thread Starter 

I didn't mean to imply that those with higher post count have opinions that are inherently more valuable than those without. Those comments in the original post were meant to refer to figures who are familiar with nearly all of us and have a reputation for thorough and unbiased reviews and commentary. Tyll, Steve Guttenburg, and Jude are all excellent examples. Compared to somebody who's written few or zero reviews and whose opinions and sonic tastes I know little of, people who have established themselves as an integral part of the Head-Fi community have opinions that mean more to me since I know how their tastes compare to mine and I know what sort of gear they've listened to in the past.

 

However, a general guideline of high post count can be useful at times. Those with a higher post count are more likely to have a deeper dedication to the hobby than those without, and are more likely to have possessed a wider array of gear over time. Of course, there are exceptions. N3rdling was a Junior Head-Fi'er when he first posted a photo of his massive collection of cans, including (if I remember correctly) an SR009, O2, HE90, Qualia R10, and K1000. There are plenty of people with a post count above 10,000 who have yet to buy more than two or three pairs of high-end headphones. But as a general guideline, people with a higher post count and higher level of involvement in threads here have had more experience with gear.

 

And remember, post count was not what I was originally referring to anyways.

post #700 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssrock64 View Post
 

I didn't mean to imply that those with higher post count have opinions that are inherently more valuable than those without. Those comments in the original post were meant to refer to figures who are familiar with nearly all of us and have a reputation for thorough and unbiased reviews and commentary. Tyll, Steve Guttenburg, and Jude are all excellent examples. Compared to somebody who's written few or zero reviews and whose opinions and sonic tastes I know little of, people who have established themselves as an integral part of the Head-Fi community have opinions that mean more to me since I know how their tastes compare to mine and I know what sort of gear they've listened to in the past.

 

However, a general guideline of high post count can be useful at times. Those with a higher post count are more likely to have a deeper dedication to the hobby than those without, and are more likely to have possessed a wider array of gear over time. Of course, there are exceptions. N3rdling was a Junior Head-Fi'er when he first posted a photo of his massive collection of cans, including (if I remember correctly) an SR009, O2, HE90, Qualia R10, and K1000. There are plenty of people with a post count above 10,000 who have yet to buy more than two or three pairs of high-end headphones. But as a general guideline, people with a higher post count and higher level of involvement in threads here have had more experience with gear.

 

And remember, post count was not what I was originally referring to anyways.


You've just contradicted yourself in the space of 2 paragraphs.

 

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. Sound quality is a personal and subjective thing. But it is the opinion of a great many on this forum (and among headphone users period) that the m50 is one of the best (if not the best) hp's for it's price. This may take into account other factors such as form factor and comfort as well.

 

However, your suggestion that people who recommend the m50 don't know any better is quite elitist and insulting, and wouldn't explain it's popularity anyway. It's also a fairly typical attitude on Headfi, where some are ridiculed for their taste in cans (eg Dr Dre Beats). It turns out, that Beats Hp's have been favourably reviewed by respected sources such as What Hifi magazine. I guess my point is, the opinions of those you mentioned are not the be-all and end-all in the audiophile world. People all over the world like this hp, from studio engineers to casual music listeners, to commited audiophiles. This is regardless of what is said on Head-fi.

post #701 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfac73 View Post
 


You've just contradicted yourself in the space of 2 paragraphs.

 

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. Sound quality is a personal and subjective thing. But it is the opinion of a great many on this forum (and among headphone users period) that the m50 is one of the best (if not the best) hp's for it's price. This may take into account other factors such as form factor and comfort as well.

 

However, your suggestion that people who recommend the m50 don't know any better is quite elitist and insulting, and wouldn't explain it's popularity anyway. It's also a fairly typical attitude on Headfi, where some are ridiculed for their taste in cans (eg Dr Dre Beats). It turns out, that Beats Hp's have been favourably reviewed by respected sources such as What Hifi magazine. I guess my point is, the opinions of those you mentioned are not the be-all and end-all in the audiophile world. People all over the world like this hp, from studio engineers to casual music listeners, to commited audiophiles. This is regardless of what is said on Head-fi.

Sound quality is a personal and subjective thing. -  'Sound quality' is an impersonal and objective thing. People have personal subjective preferences for sound which manytimes do not correspond to objective evaluations of what is a good sound. Eating broccoli is likewise objectively most beneficial for one's health and many know it but they hate the vegetable and subjectively prefer to eat cancerous crispy creme donuts.

 

It turns out, that Beats Hp's have been favourably reviewed by respected sources such as What Hifi magazine. - A favourable review of Beats headphones by a 'respected source' like 'What HiFi' magazine does not prove that Beats are good headphones and worth their purchase price, it only proves that the HiFi standards of this magazine have fallen.


Edited by zorin - 6/5/14 at 11:22pm
post #702 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorin View Post
 

Sound quality is a personal and subjective thing. -  'Sound quality' is an impersonal and objective thing. People have personal subjective preferences for sound which manytimes do not correspond to objective evaluations of what is a good sound. Eating broccoli is likewise objectively most beneficial for one's health and many know it but they hate the vegetable and subjectively prefer to eat cancerous crispy creme donuts.

 

It turns out, that Beats Hp's have been favourably reviewed by respected sources such as What Hifi magazine. - A favourable review of Beats headphones by a 'respected source' like 'What HiFi' magazine does not prove that Beats are good headphones and worth their purchase price, it only proves that the HiFi standards of this magazine have fallen.


My apologies. The perception of sound quality is subjective. And by extension opinions about sound quality are subjective.

 

 

Likewise, unfavourable comments about Beats headphones by Headfi members such as yourself does not prove they are bad headphones. They sell by the millions, so obviously they are "good" headphones to those people who buy/like them.

 

But in the end I don't think it's  like comparing broccoli to donuts, but rather apples to oranges. I have yet to see evidence that listening to a headphone you think is bad will give you cancer. Is there evidence that Crispy Creme donuts gives u cancer? Careful what u say :wink:


Edited by dcfac73 - 6/6/14 at 1:55am
post #703 of 855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfac73 View Post
 

However, your suggestion that people who recommend the m50 don't know any better is quite elitist and insulting, and wouldn't explain it's popularity anyway. It's also a fairly typical attitude on Headfi, where some are ridiculed for their taste in cans (eg Dr Dre Beats).

I still don't think you're quite understanding the gist of what I said. I didn't say that people who recommend the M50 "don't know any better"; I said that those who have the most experience tend to recommend a wider array than just the M50, whereas those who have just owned the M50 tend to recommend it blindly. This is a phenomenon with any pair of headphones that's popular as an entry into the audiophile world, but its effects are especially acute with the M50. Since the M50 remains one of the most popular headphones on the market, it gets recommended over and over by people who've heard little else in perpetuity.

 

There's a distinction to be made between the implication that people who recommend the M50 don't know better (which I didn't say and don't believe), and the assertion that those who have owned a wider array of gear tend not to recommend it as much in the price range (which is what I did say). If I had meant that anyone who recommends the M50 to new users doesn't know any better, I would be shooting myself in the foot. I recommend it quite often myself, for those who I think would like it. However, I also recommend models from Ultrasone, Fischer, Beyerdynamic, and a bevy of other brands, since I have that experience with multiple pairs of headphones in that price range and know that they would suit certain people's tastes better.

 

The popularity of the M50 has almost like a perpetual motion machine, which gets back to the first couple paragraphs of my original post. A huge portion of posts in recommendations threads come from those who are just starting to get into the hobby, people who blindly recommend their one pair of high-end headphones without really taking into account the needs of the original poster in each circumstance. Since the M50 was so universally popular from about 2008 to 2012 with little good competition in the category, almost every single recommendation thread was populated with 100+ Head-Fi'ers saying that the M50 was unbeatable. It didn't matter if the original poster wanted something bassier, something more comfortable, or just didn't like the looks of the studio monitor. The M50 was always one of the first and most common recommendations.

 

When this thread was first posted more than two years ago, the tide was just starting to turn, and its original text is actually fairly outdated by now. Since I first made the original post, the wave of M50 recommendations has gone from the level of insanity to a much more reasonable level. If you go to platforms like Reddit and Quora they'll still be recommended in the manner I discussed, but on Head-Fi there's a lot more balance nowadays. Due to the new competitors and factors I discussed and predicted in 2012, recommendations have broadened over time. Additionally, the shift from individual recommendation threads to a single master thread has helped, too, with various experienced members of the forum constantly there to help guide new users.

 

I'm not here to pick a fight; I just wanted to explain my reasoning. I did not mean to come off as "elitist"; I meant to put forth the reasonable assumption that those who have had a wider array of headphones will generally recommend a wider array of headphones. It's a simple concept, but I must not have stated it as clearly as I could have. Everyone has a valid opinion, but those who recommend the M50 (or any other headphone) without having heard the competition don't have as much weight as somebody giving a recommendation after years in the hobby and dozens of headphones bought and sold.

post #704 of 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoon838 View Post

So...

I'm in this situation again. I was about to purchase the M50x, but now I'm questioning that.

I'd like a portable, closed/isolating (don't leak noise), very comfortable aggressive-sounding pair of headphones that I can wear in public without looking silly, along with being easy to drive.

Portable means that preferably, if I wear them while going out somewhere, I don't have to have a backpack on to keep them in if I decide not to listen any more, and I'd rather not have to fully remove them if I need to talk to someone. I think this means that what I'm looking for is a pair that has earcups that swivel so I can easily wear them around my neck if I need to. If I'm failing to consider an option here, let me know.

Noise leakage - self explanatory.

Comfortable - I have a big head. So I guess that should be taken into account. I owned v-moda crossfade LPs at one point and the comfort was atrocious. My ears felt like they were being crammed inside an area far too small - there was too much contact. So I'd like to avoid anything like that.

Sound signature - I mentioned aggressive, and I think that's what I want. I listen to hard rock, metal, metalcore (more commonly incorrectly referred to as screamo), and electronic. I've been told that what I'm looking for is a v-shaped sound signature, so the drums and bass hit hard and the guitar is prominent. What I know for sure is that I don't want headphones that sound relaxing or laid back. I want exciting and crisp. I want them to attack my ears and get me pumped and in to the music. All with minimal negative effect on the quality, of course.

Wearing in public...I think this is pretty self explanatory too.

I'll be using these straight with my Galaxy Note 3 and laptop, so easy to drive is a must.

I've owned V-moda Crossfade LPs (hated because of the fit, and the music just sounded muddy and bloated), Panasonic RP-HTF600-S (they sounded boring and I couldn't get in to the music unless I EQ'd the crap out of them, and they leaked noise), and the Sony MDR-7520 (They sounded good I guess, just not $350 good. Had to EQ to get them to sound how I wanted. They also weren't great in terms of portability.)

As a final note, the sound signature isn't as much of an issue as long as the headphones respond well to EQ and tick the rest of the boxes. Likewise, I think I can live with not being able to wear them around my neck and just holding them/putting them in my backpack if the headphones otherwise match my criteria (what do people normally do here? I mean, I live on a college campus, so lots of walking, but lots of interaction too).

I'm looking at the ATH-M50x, the NVX XPT100 (same as HM5), KRK-KNS 500, Ultrasone HFI 580, and a few others. Feel free to recommend anything - these are all in the same price range but I'm willing to pay up to $400 as long as I get my money's worth.

Thank you!

The best to your description would fit IEMs, and for 50EUR (1/3 of M50 price) you can get brilliant headphones from Sony: XBA-C10.
They definitely are portable, they isolate extremely well (I can't hear train in them), they are extremely comfortable (when I wear them I don't even know I do), and SQ is just amazing.
Walking on the street with full-sized headphones is problematic, and IEM's seem to be solution, while in the backpack you can carry bigger cans to your work (or wherever you are going to).
post #705 of 855
Hello again,

Thank you for your recommendation. However, I'd prefer over ear headphones to IEMs because they keep my ears warm in the cold Michigan winter months, and can be more easily used for gaming.

I recently purchased a bunch more headphones and am returning all but one. Here's a summary of the headphones I own and why I don't like/like them.

Panasonic RP-HTF600-S - Dislike. Boring sound, not enough bass, didn't sound very high quality sound wise, and leaked tons of noise. No removable cable.

V-Moda Crossfade LP - dislike. Muddy, crowded sound. Comfort was bad but it could be fixed with XL pads. Didn't sound very high quality either.

V-Moda m100 - sort of like, but returning. Crowded sound, slightly muddy. Good bass impact but didn't feel separate from the rest of the frequencies. Too expensive for the quality of sound they delivered.

Sony MDR-7520 - dislike. Too boring of a sound signature, not nearly enough bass. Extremely expensive.

Ultrasone HFI-580 - Liked, but returning. The sound signature was pretty good, but it could have done with more bass and less prominent highs. Separation was okay but not as good as m50x. No removable cable (deal breaker).

ATH-m50x - Like and might be keeping. AMAZING separation. This is what I feel like high end headphones should sound like. Honestly, I'm not sure if it's separation or soundstage, but what I mean is that I can hear everything distinctly, there's a very nice reverb on drums, and even though the bass is a little light, it's prominent because it's so distinct. They leak a little noise, however, and when at a volume I like, the highs are a little piercing.

So, basically, my point is, for me, the m50s ARE king. Someone prove me wrong. A little more bass, a little less piercing highs, and a little more isolation would be perfect, as long as it doesn't sacrifice that amazing "thing" that sounds so good in these compared to the V-Modas. I think it's separation but it might be soundstage. Hell, it might be distortion for all I know. Does something exist to fit my needs?
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