Do I need the HD 600 or HD 650 for jazz, ambient and singer/songwriter stuff? - Page 3

Yes, Sinatra sound great on the 580's but maybe the Sinatra recordings are just bright...  btw I think the HD-580 do not sounds like the HD-600, for HQ/HD recorded jazz/ acoustic and vocals I'll recommend the AKG K-702.

Well your ears are different from mine obviously.....and those who like the 650 may not like EITHER the 702 or the 600. That's why there's more than one flavor of ice cream!   I'll choose the 580 over the k702 for just about ANY recording....even modern vocalists like Norah Jones. The 702 does many things well, but it's far too bright and butchers horn sections, IMO. I played in jazz bands and orchestras and heard lots of live performances, and the 580 does brass sections far better than the 702....it's not even close. YMMV

Thats the beauty of HD650's.  They can produce a lot of bass without affecting rest of the frequency range.  Also, some say HD650's have recessed treble. That is, IMHO, very wrong.  New HD650's do not have recessed treble at all. In fact, for me, they are on the sweet spot between neutral and bright. That is just another characteristic wrongly associated with them. I want to stress this, new HD650's do NOT have recessed treble, they have neutral treble.  Treble that is crystal clear, very detailed, but never ever uncomfortable. On most headphones, most recordings sound too bright, because they've been recorded for speakers, and because drivers in headphones are so close to the ears and frequency waves travel such small distance, high frequencies tend to be too loud.

Don't believe those who say HD650's are dark. Its a characteristic often branded to the HD650, but it's completely wrong for new versions.  New versions of HD650's are in fact not dark at all.  If you take the "dark" sound signature comments seriously, you might begin to believe that they sound like you have a pillow between your ears and the headphones. Which is, again, completely wrong.  I have HD650's and HD558's, and HD650's are actually considerably BRIGHTER than HD558's, which are in most reviews considered to be the first Sennheisers without the famous "veil".  HD650's have a very sparkly treble (never peaky or uncomfortable) and a slightly boosted bass, but that boost in bass is so small that most people wont notice it, and in most songs, it makes no difference.  I compared HD600 and HD650 in the store, and honestly, If I did blind tests, with 90% of songs I could not tell the difference whatsoever. It makes difference only in bass heavy song. Its not as if HD650's have boosted bass all the time, they don't.  They are just CAPABLE of producing a lot of bass.  There's a difference between being bassy all the time, and being able to produce a lot of bass when needed. To me, they still sound extremely neutral and just very enjoyable. 

Honestly, the differences between HD600 and HD650 are VERY small. REALLY small. Much much much much smaller than most people make you believe.  If you have the money, go for HD650's, simply because they're better made, more solid, have a thicker cable and are more comfortable.

And at the end, yes, HD650's are VERY good for vocals, especially male vocals. Sinatra or Cash for example sound so realistic it sends shivers down my neck.  HD650's really shine with jazz, classical, blues...any instrumental music in general. I love their sound with saxophones and acoustic guitars.  They aren't slow as some make them sound, they in fact do heavy metal really well. Lots of reviews make you get a wrong perception on headphones.  Some people say that HD650's arent good with fast music. Wrong.  They just wont show 100% potential with that kind of music, they will instead show 95% of potential, which still means they pretty damn good.

The brass section on the Sennes sounds dim out to me, your impression remind me the pre HD-800 time...when some members here on headfi thought the K-702 are a bright hps, but the appearance of the 800's just change this perspective and put the K-702 in the right spot of the sound spectrum...not so bright as the 800's, and on the other side not a dark hps as the 650.  

Really? The Senns have plenty of upper midrange presence to my ears....they're almost on the bright side. Most music that features horns is almost entirely in the midrange, AFAIK....not a lot of treble energy, except for the high notes on a trumpet. There's no right or wrong with what a person perceives. You hear what you hear, and I hear what I hear, and we're both right. The subjective element is always present....it's impossible to avoid. That said, a famous Motown engineer claimed that the dt48 sounded closer to the live music in the studio than any other phone he ever heard. And the dt48 has less upper midrange presence than the hd580! 

Really? The Senns have plenty of upper midrange presence to my ears....they're almost on the bright side. That said, a famous Motown engineer claimed that the dt48 sounded closer to the live music in the studio than any other phone he ever heard. And the dt48 has less upper midrange presence than the hd580! 

What are you talking about man...the DT48E is all about upper mids in your face.

and would use them for rock too .. but 600 for anything else ..

I might be a little biased, but HD650's slightly more forward presentation of the midrange makes jazz and rock music (two primary genres I listen to) a nice live performance like vibe to many recordings.  I thought the neutral HD600 sound signature to be a good all around performer, but not as engaging as the HD650 during my short time having both of them at a local meet.