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Confused about feeding x-fi card to external DAC/amp (FIIO e9/e10?)

post #1 of 11
1/11/12 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 

Hi everyone,

 
Hopefully someone here can help me out - I'm about to buy some hd598's but I will be using them for gaming as well as music.
 
I have searched a lot here about whether or not an amp is necessary and the general consensus seems to be that it isn't required for these headphones (low impedance - 50) but it helps them perform at their best.
 
I'm in Australia and the availability of many of the amps mentioned here for the hd598's are limited/non-existent unless you import them yourself from the USA. There is one supplier who stocks the portable FIIO's though (e5/6/7/10/11) but no e9 so the e7+e9 combo isn't really an option for me. EDIT: I have found the e9 here so that is a possibility if it will do what I want (see below).
 
I won't be using it really as a portable amp, it will be for my desktop, but the model I'm looking at currently is the e7, hence I've posted here in the portable section.
I'm wanting to keep my creative xtremegamer card for the XMMS positional audio effects, though I've heard using an external DAC is beneficial (unless comparing to a higher end internal DAC but I don't have that). Is it possible to feed the audio from my x-fi card to the e7 digitally and use the e7's DAC? I'm fairly sure this is possible with a desktop amp but with a smaller portable one I'm not so sure. FIIO's website wasn't clearing anything up for me in terms of input/outputs and from what I've heard, using the USB interface acts as a replacement soundcard, possibly bypassing the x-fi, which isn't what I want.
 
I also don't want the signal converted using the x-fi DAC and passed to the e7 in analog if I can avoid it. Would I need to use S/PDIF from xfi -> e7 to make this happen? I'm not even sure if the e7 has S/PDIF input but it's 3:30 AM so I will check tomorrow.
 
EDIT: Just read that the e10 is possibly better than the e7 by itself and cheaper here in Aus.. might be looking at that instead.
 
TL;DR: Is it possible to do x-fi xtremegamer -> e7/e9/e10 -> hd598 while using the x-fi XMSS-3D positional audio stuff, but the e7's DACs? but an external amp?

Edited by Bobblybook - 1/11/12 at 11:23pm
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post #2 of 11
1/11/12 at 8:47am

It won't work the way you wanted (E7 as DAC for X-Fi), and I don't really see why you want an E7 as well. The X-Fi card alone should be good enough for your purpose.

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post #3 of 11
1/11/12 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks ClieOS. If the x-fi will work fine as a DAC I can make use of that, but then is it possible to do what I was asking but by using the x-fi DAC? As far as I know the x-fi I have doesn't have an amp on it...

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post #4 of 11
1/11/12 at 6:32pm

I have the E10 and had the XtremeMusic Creative card once.

 

The xtremegamer is a DAC.


The E7 is a DAC.

 

The E10 is supposed to be superior to the E7 in sound quality.

 

The E10 is a USB DAC/AMP that can be just a DAC but not just an amp.

 

For Windows they (The chosen Fiio & X-fi)  would be recognized as separate audio cards.

 

What you would be looking for is an amp then.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblybook View Post

 

 
EDIT: Just read that the e10 is possibly better than the e7 by itself and cheaper here in Aus.. might be looking at that instead.
 
TL;DR: Is it possible to do x-fi xtremegamer -> e7 -> hd598 while using the x-fi XMSS-3D positional audio stuff, but the e7's DACs?


 


Edited by hamburgerladdy - 1/11/12 at 6:34pm
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post #5 of 11
1/11/12 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblybook View Post

Thanks ClieOS. If the x-fi will work fine as a DAC I can make use of that, but then is it possible to do what I was asking but by using the x-fi DAC? As far as I know the x-fi I have doesn't have an amp on it...



Sound card, by definition, must have a DAC and amp section on it in order for it to work as a sound card.

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post #6 of 11
1/11/12 at 8:13pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the replies. It seems a bit odd that I can't use a DAC + Amp as an Amp only, which is annoying since most if not all of the portable amps seem to have an integrated DAC (for obvious reasons).

I understand the x-fi has some sort of amp on it (I probably should've worded that differently), but I was under the impression that even a basic amp, such as the e10, could provide me with an increase in sq over the onboard x-fi one. If not I'm happy to listen to advice from anyone here, I'm not 100% set on getting an amp for my headphones.

 

I can see some amps such as the Matrix M-stage which seem to be amp only, but while they're not out of my price range, I can't really justify $280+ for an amp for a single pair of headphones the same price yet.

 

Are there any amps without DACs below that price? I guess this is getting away from "portable" amps so I should probably ask in the desktop amp forum instead...

 

Also it seems I found a store here that sells the fiio e9, which looks to be just an amp from what I can see (edited original post to clarify that). My desktop speakers here have RCA connectors which is currently converted to a stereo 3.5mm into the x-fi. Am I correct in assuming I can do this:

 

x-fi (3.5mm) -> e9 -> speakers (via RCA)

                          -> hd598 (via headphone jack)

 

Forgive my ignorance but I'm assuming that will benefit/have a positive effect on my speaker output also? I read from one thread that going from a sound card to an amp line input is subpar due to some sort of technical issue or signal loss or something. They didn't go into much detail and I'm not convinced I'll believe that unless I hear reasons why, but I thought I would bring that up.


Edited by Bobblybook - 1/11/12 at 11:23pm
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post #7 of 11
1/12/12 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobblybook View Post


x-fi (3.5mm) -> e9 -> speakers (via RCA)

                          -> hd598 (via headphone jack)

 

Forgive my ignorance but I'm assuming that will benefit/have a positive effect on my speaker output also? I read from one thread that going from a sound card to an amp line input is subpar due to some sort of technical issue or signal loss or something. They didn't go into much detail and I'm not convinced I'll believe that unless I hear reasons why, but I thought I would bring that up.You can set iy up like that
 

You can set it up like that, but you should do more research on E9 first to find out if it fits your need.

 

E9 internal amp should have no effect on the RCA-out.

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post #8 of 11
1/12/12 at 3:14am
Thread Starter 

Edit: double post, can't seem to delete posts :(


Edited by Bobblybook - 1/12/12 at 3:59am
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post #9 of 11
1/12/12 at 3:35am
Thread Starter 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

You can set it up like that, but you should do more research on E9 first to find out if it fits your need.

 

E9 internal amp should have no effect on the RCA-out.

 

Thanks. I have been reading all day about them. Seems to be so much conflicting info on the E9, some say it's good, some say it's good for the price, some say it makes no difference, some say it actually provides worse audio than unamped (?????). I'm all for comparing different products but it doesn't seem there are that many amp-only units in this price range. Maybe it's just the retailers I'm looking at that don't stock them.

 

Can also get my hands on a 2nd hand (new cond.) matrix m-stage for $200, though it seems everyone believes the hd598 doesn't benefit much from higher quality amps so it may not be worth it - I can't see myself going to hd600/650 any time soon. Is this a good price?

 

I should probably be moving this thread to the desktop amp forum but I don't think I can without a mod's help :(


Edited by Bobblybook - 1/12/12 at 4:15am
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post #10 of 11
1/12/12 at 12:29pm

From this guys website:

 

headfonia.com

 

He said in one of the comments that the 598s scale better with an amp and that even the new E17 has an inferior amp to the E11.

 

So, just keep the card and get an E11 or Cmoy and you should be set.

 

 

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post #11 of 11
1/12/12 at 1:34pm

Bobblybook.

 

The Creative Labs Titanium HD does not come with a dedicated headphone amplifier, but the headphone jack is rated up to 330-Ohm.

Lots of Titanium HD users seem to be happy with the way the Titanium HD powers their headphones, without using a separate headphone amplifier.

Also you can upgrade the 3 op-amps (operational amplifiers) on the Titanium HD.

You can sell off your current sound card to help cover the costs of the Titanium HD.

 

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