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Sennheiser HD 700: Officially Unveiled at CES 2012! - Page 227

post #3391 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anathallo View Post

I personally do not find the HD700 sounds very much like the T1.  The HD700 is much more aggressive to my ears.

 

I don't think they sound that similar either.  To my ears the T1 has far worse driver ringing, a far more metallic timbre, and more issues exaggerating sibilance but they both have pumped up and peaky treble that give the "fake clarity" sort of coloration.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

One problem is that most music are mastered for speakers and not headphone. You have can for instance 100% separation between let and right.

A crossfeed you help, but it muddies  up the sound.

 

That's not really the issue he was talking about...


Edited by maverickronin - 6/26/12 at 3:58pm
post #3392 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

That's not really the issue he was talking about...

I was explaining why it would never sound as fine on headphone compared to speakers.

post #3393 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

I was explaining why it would never sound as fine on headphone compared to speakers.

 

All those issues RD mentioned will ruin binaural too.  It's not related to source material.

post #3394 of 3534
Rhythmdevils must live in blackbird studios. Otherwise he'd be a fool to think that speakers have no resonance problems. The entire listening room is a resonance problem when speakers are concerned, and some of the fr measurements they can churn out make a Grado look as flat as a ruler.
post #3395 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Rhythmdevils must live in blackbird studios. Otherwise he'd be a fool to think that speakers have no resonance problems. The entire listening room is a resonance problem when speakers are concerned, and some of the fr measurements they can churn out make a Grado look as flat as a ruler.

 

That's not really a the same issue.  The room will make the speaker deviate from perfect but still they will sound natural because the room would do the same thing to a real instrument, or any other sound, in that same room.

 

The kind of resonance issues most headphones have sound so awful to many people because there is pretty much no acoustic environment that could manipulate the sound in the same way.  Consequently, your brain isn't likely to do a very good job of making sense of something so artificial.

post #3396 of 3534
Bad argument. A recording should already have picked up any environmental resonances, it's the speakers' job to play that back as faithfully as possible without any additional resonance. That'd be like saying 'ok we need to add more resonances to the hd800 they decay too fast and too smooth to be realistic. There are plenty of rooms out there that color speakers extremely badly, measurements can even tell you that.
post #3397 of 3534

Hah the old blame the room yeah I've heard that a lot.  But my speakers have no significant resonances regardless of the room.  I'm sure a cement box would make them sound bad, but I've heard them in about 15 different rooms with no treatment of any kind, and they have never had any real problems.  You'd have to have a very special room to cause anything serious, you'd likely have to design something on purpose.  Right now my left speaker is sitting about 3 inches in front of a huge glass window, and still no problems.  Of course, they improve with a treated room.  I'd say it's akin to what amping does for a headphone.  It won't fix or cause any glaring problems, but it has the potential to make subtle improvements.  Bass is another story, bass can get boomy with certain placements, but mine have a space adjustment for that so it's not a problem. 

 

And no, crossfeed has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. 

 

Maybe there are bad sounding speakers, I have never heard a speaker sound as bad as most headphones except for in car audio, and they still aren't anywhere near the coloration of something like a GS1000 or Ultrasone. 

 

I don't want to derail this thread, I should probably start a thread about this.  But there seems to be serious misconceptions about my perspective. 

post #3398 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

The kind of resonance issues most headphones have sound so awful to many people because there is pretty much no acoustic environment that could manipulate the sound in the same way.

I  only got an issue with the hd25 . And open headphone doesn't  have much resonance, and probably almost none with the hd700, with the patented metal mesh.


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 6/26/12 at 4:37pm
post #3399 of 3534

He listens in near-field with his near-field monitors. (I've visited his hideout.)

 

Headphone driver ringing is much more serious than the bad kind of speaker room interactions (bloated bass from room gain or early reflections). Also, headphone driver ringing can be exacerbated by the enclosure. Arnaud did a reasonably good simulation of this with the HD800. Good speakers if properly placed and given enough room don't make Grados look flat. They actually make many good and decent headphones look horrible. This I speak from my own experience building and measuring speakers as a hobby.

 

Some well-known expensive speakers do have nasty ringing though. Usually because the designer wanted a transient-perfect filter resulting in the crossover not having a steep enough slope to cut off a metal coned woofer way before it's breakup point where it rings. It's all about making the right compromises from a design point of view.

 

There is reason why people say the top STAX headphone and some well behaved headphones such as the HE500 or LCD3 have a "speaker like presentation". They lack the sharp ringing - those nasty sonic artifacts found in most other headphones.


Edited by purrin - 6/26/12 at 5:12pm
post #3400 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Bad argument. A recording should already have picked up any environmental resonances, it's the speakers' job to play that back as faithfully as possible without any additional resonance. That'd be like saying 'ok we need to add more resonances to the hd800 they decay too fast and too smooth to be realistic. There are plenty of rooms out there that color speakers extremely badly, measurements can even tell you that.

 

Nope.  Those are still naturally occurring resonances.  Doubling them up won't give you a Razor of Death or a Double Octave Penetrator like plenty of headphones exhibit.

post #3401 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

open headphone doesn't  have much resonance,

 

 

False.

post #3402 of 3534
It's not uncommon to see dips and spikes in excess of 15db throughout the entire fr in most untreated rooms. In fact most untreated rooms I've seen measured are always -15db at 100hz. Luckily treating first reflections and bass trappin all corners win 4 inches of fiberglass can alleviate most of that.
post #3403 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

It's not uncommon to see dips and spikes in excess of 15db throughout the entire fr in most untreated rooms. In fact most untreated rooms I've seen measured are always -15db at 100hz. Luckily treating first reflections and bass trappin all corners win 4 inches of fiberglass can alleviate most of that.

 

I know that part.  This is a psychoacoustic issue though.  It's not about the magnitude of the deviation but how your brain interprets it.

post #3404 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

It's not uncommon to see dips and spikes in excess of 15db throughout the entire fr in most untreated rooms. In fact most untreated rooms I've seen measured are always -15db at 100hz. Luckily treating first reflections and bass trappin all corners win 4 inches of fiberglass can alleviate most of that.

 

Do you have actual experience with this?  I do. 

 

Let's get back on topic so the mods don't have to do cleanup.  Please. 

post #3405 of 3534
Otherwise I wouldn't be talking about it. Back to that peaky hd700!
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