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Sennheiser HD 700: Officially Unveiled at CES 2012! - Page 224

post #3346 of 3534
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

Because someone who does "professional" reviews that are readily available to a lot of people is expected to be more discerning with their impressions than someone who is a casual listener, doesn't know their preferences very well, and has little experience.  Someone liking the HD700 doesn't negate all the problems people have described here in depth.  It much more likely means they are ok with those problems, or maybe enjoy them.  As people in this thread have pointed out many times when describing the treble issues. 

 

You can't reduce a headphone to simply "good or bad".  There are always going to be issues, and some people with less experience, or a less discerning ear aren't going to hear them or be bothered by them.  And that doesn't mean they don't exist.  You can't read impressions from people with wildly different backgrounds and perspectives and levels of experience and try to just get a "bad/good" consensus from them.  It's not that simple.  Headphones have strengths and weaknesses. 

 

Someone who doesn't notice any weaknesses in a given headphone ought to be seen with skepticism because it means they don't know very much. 

 

I like the passive-agressive approach here: You can like what you like, but if you like what I don't like (and/or what measures by someone poorly), you don't know very much (and/or your hearing's rife with problems or broken).

 

I think it's rather simpler than this: Sometimes you like what you like, not because your ears are broken or inexperienced, but just because you like how it sounds.

 

 

de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum

 

 

I don't need or seek concurrence. I just like what I like, and don't like what I don't. I occasionally review things, but always make strong the point that what I say is only one man's opinion. If you listen to a headphone I like and don't like it, I don't assume you're hearing's problematic or broken. And if you listen to a headphone I don't like and like it, I don't assume your hearing's problematic or broken. I'm sure some headphones I like a lot (or even love) aren't necessarily going to measure well; and, if and when they're measured, the measured outcome (good or bad) doesn't change what I'm hearing.

 

I will not assert that any posted user measurements of this or any other headphone are flawed or inaccurate. Conversely, I won't assert that they aren't. I've been to the facilities of at least a few different headphone manufacturers, and I've seen some very impressive capacities to measure and objectively assess. At least one company has measurement facilities that take into careful account isolation from ground vibration and movement, as well as isolation from radio and electromagnetic interference by placing measurement gear within a room that was essentially wired up as a giant Faraday cage. I've seen acoustic measurements of many types performed in anechoic chambers big and small. And through it all, I think every single acoustics engineer I've talked to recognizes the vagaries inherent in the different measurement rigs, setups, techniques (no matter how crude or fancy).

 

I will occasionally get pre-production units (of both headphones and electronics) with measurement sheets included (stuff that's from the lab, and not publicly published). One set of two headphone units (of the same model, one pre-production, the other closer to production) recently arrived with raw measurements printed on transparencies (so that the measurements could be easily compared). I've compared some of this type of data (of headphones in production) to publicly posted independent measurements of the same make/model, and most of the time they look quite different.

 

Ultimately, I remove the thing from the box, place 'em over my ears (or in 'em), and then listen. And it all comes down to that. I do admittedly find the posted headphone measurements (and the private ones I occasionally see) fascinating; but (in my opinion) any one set should be wielded as another data point (along with others' impressions and other measurements), not wielded as a weapon or a presumed final arbiter of what is flawed or perfect.

post #3347 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

 

Because someone who does "professional" reviews that are readily available to a lot of people is expected to be more discerning with their impressions than someone who is a casual listener, doesn't know their preferences very well, and has little experience.  Someone liking the HD700 doesn't negate all the problems people have described here in depth.  It much more likely means they are ok with those problems, or maybe enjoy them.  As people in this thread have pointed out many times when describing the treble issues. 

 

You can't reduce a headphone to simply "good or bad".  There are always going to be issues, and some people with less experience, or a less discerning ear aren't going to hear them or be bothered by them.  And that doesn't mean they don't exist.  You can't read impressions from people with wildly different backgrounds and perspectives and levels of experience and try to just get a "bad/good" consensus from them.  It's not that simple.  Headphones have strengths and weaknesses. 

 

Someone who doesn't notice any weaknesses in a given headphone ought to be seen with skepticism because it means they don't know very much.  To be honest, in general the more critical someone is of a headphone the more they should be trusted.  It doesn't mean you will hear all those problems, but anyone can put on a headphone and gush about bass and treble with flowery prose. My sister could do that and she has no idea what she's listening to and doesn't care about headphones in the slightest. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

He got bashed not because he had different tastes, which is fine, but because of he tended to gloss over some issues and seemed overly exuberant with some of his wilder claims:

 

  • I get an impression that I'm listening to an electrostat-type driver, only this time with better frequency extension than typical STAX headphones.
  • Sound coming out of it is clearer than the HD800 ... or the STAX O2.
  • HD700 is even clearer ... than the O2

 

Then again, I don't have as much experience with electrostatics compared with some other people here. So it's very well possible that the HD700 may have better transient response, high frequency extension, and clarity than the SR007.

 

While I do see some of the more experienced member object to his wilder claims, I cant help to get the impression that many other just bashing him for liking the HD700.

 

I do apologize if that is not the case though.

post #3348 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 

I like the passive-agressive approach here: You can like what you like, but if you like what I don't like (and/or what measures by someone poorly), you don't know very much (and/or your hearing's rife with problems or broken).

 

I think you are reading too much in what RD is trying to say. RD has the expectation that professional reviewers, while free to state their personal views, should at least lay everything (good and bad) out on squarely the table so reader can better make a decision. This shouldn't be difficult as most headphones are very far from perfect or even well behaved transducers. Nor should it be difficult if the reviewer has a true reference system where specific aspects of the reviewed headphone can be compared against.

 

If RD is guilty of anything, it's his being an idealist. Most professional reviewers get perks or have undisclosed personal relationships with manufacturers.


Edited by purrin - 6/25/12 at 7:57am
post #3349 of 3534

seems not bad

post #3350 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikp View Post

Please do tell me the HD700 also match the HD800 in terms of soundstage. smile.gif

 

If my puny voice counts :D Since i own the 700 and i did a back and forth comparison on these 2 headphones. I must say they dont, though i think the 700 has a bit better depht in the soundstage area.

post #3351 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


Oh man, that's hilarious! rolleyes.gif It sounds like it should be selling at half its MSRP and he compares it to $2500 stats. Comedy gold!

 

Gosh i though i had join a more serious and mature site.... Seems that i got decived comments like yours are on par with a childs and why is that ? What u are stating is that u give me a 100% Guarantee that the STAX wich cost 2500k IS a must that my ears will like them far better than lets say hd700/800 or Hifiman's high end or even LCD ect ect ? Some people dont understand the word Subjectiv

post #3352 of 3534

After some of the earlier negative impressions of this headphone i pretty much wrote them off. I looked elsewhere for a good pair of cans and ended up settling on the Beyer T1. But things are changing slowly. More and more positive impressions for the HD700.

 

This begs the question, which is the more desirable headphone? Nobody has posted a comparison so im not sure which is the better headphone although im leaning towards the T1 seeing as it's Beyerdynamic's flagship.

post #3353 of 3534
Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

 

If RD is guilty of anything, it's his being an idealist. Most professional reviewers get perks or have undisclosed personal relationships with manufacturers.

Perhaps this is a question of the reviewer's moral values. Are they willing to sacrifice ties for clear content.

post #3354 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

This begs the question, which is the more desirable headphone?

Do you like harsh or "crispy" highs ? You have to listen them. As personally I own the hd800 and the srh940, I  know the difference between smooth, and edgy highs.

post #3355 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

Do you like harsh or "crispy" highs ? You have to listen them. As personally I own the hd800 and the srh940, I  know the difference between smooth, and edgy highs.

 

I can't say which i like better since i've never listened to a good pair of headphones before, but i can certainly say the idea of harsh highs don't sound too enjoyable.

post #3356 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakakaw View Post

 

Gosh i though i had join a more serious and mature site.... Seems that i got decived comments like yours are on par with a childs and why is that ? What u are stating is that u give me a 100% Guarantee that the STAX wich cost 2500k IS a must that my ears will like them far better than lets say hd700/800 or Hifiman's high end or even LCD ect ect ? Some people dont understand the word Subjectiv

 

 

Saying the HD700 has better extension and / or is clearer than the SR-007mk1 and HD800 isn't making a subjective statement. It's one thing to say you prefer this or that headphone for this or that reason, and quite another to start making wild claims about the performance of that headphone. For instance if I said it was my opinion that the moon was made of gorgonzola, no one would take me seriously.

 

No one is saying "you're going to like Stax more" or "Stax are better for everyone." All headphones have inherent flaws, and it's the matter of finding the right fit for your preferences. That's what several of the above posts were talking about: being honest and upfront about the pros and cons of a particular headphone, so that people reading said review can decide for themselves. People are making fun of that review not because of some deep seated, inherent hatred toward the HD700, but because it's filled with hyperbole and frankly outlandish claims.


Edited by MuppetFace - 6/25/12 at 8:35am
post #3357 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaver316 View Post

After some of the earlier negative impressions of this headphone i pretty much wrote them off. I looked elsewhere for a good pair of cans and ended up settling on the Beyer T1. But things are changing slowly. More and more positive impressions for the HD700.

 

This begs the question, which is the more desirable headphone? Nobody has posted a comparison so im not sure which is the better headphone although im leaning towards the T1 seeing as it's Beyerdynamic's flagship.

+1

post #3358 of 3534

Are you talking of mike review at headfonia ?

I was mislead once by the review for the srh940 : "treble monster" title , looks like a play with word to hide that they can sound weird.

So when mike is saying something , I  take it with a grain of salt.

Usually the best use word he uses to say if he enjoys a headphone is "musical".

post #3359 of 3534

The great thing about this site is the varied opinions, gear, expertise, hearing and preferences. Some of it may sound outlandish and some of it may resonate. It's all just sharing and information. We are a community. Given all of that, if we are interested in a product, we have some base information and it is our responsibility to go out and listen and judge for ourselves and make the final choice.  Personally, even based on the general negativity, I really wanted to audition the HD700's.  I'm glad I did, liked them and pulled the trigger.  They are not without their flaws and I prefer them over the HD650 and HD600.  This is based on my preferances, gear and hearing.  Thanks to this community, my system is evolving and I'm really enjoying it. 

post #3360 of 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

I think you are reading too much in what RD is trying to say. RD has the expectation that professional reviewers, while free to state their personal views, should at least lay everything (good and bad) out on squarely the table so reader can better make a decision. This shouldn't be difficult as most headphones are very far from perfect or even well behaved transducers. Nor should it be difficult if the reviewer has a true reference system where specific aspects of the reviewed headphone can be compared against.

 

If RD is guilty of anything, it's his being an idealist. Most professional reviewers get perks or have undisclosed personal relationships with manufacturers.

 

When I think of RD, "idealist" is probably the last word that comes to mind biggrin.gif  Pessimist sure....idealist, not really...  It's his charm...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

Are you talking of mike review at headfonia ?

I was mislead once by the review for the srh940 : "treble monster" title , looks like a play with word to hide that they can sound weird.

So when mike is saying something , I  take it with a grain of salt.

Usually the best use word he uses to say if he enjoys a headphone is "musical".

 

As a big HD650 & HE-400 fan, after reading Mike's review of HE-400 and the comparisons to HD650, I pretty much made up my mind about how seriously to take his reviews.  They tend to be unpredictable and often at odds with what most other people report experiencing.  It's a common  statement to hear.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post

The great thing about this site is the varied opinions, gear, expertise, hearing and preferences. Some of it may sound outlandish and some of it may resonate. It's all just sharing and information. We are a community. Given all of that, if we are interested in a product, we have some base information and it is our responsibility to go out and listen and judge for ourselves and make the final choice.  Personally, even based on the general negativity, I really wanted to audition the HD700's.  I'm glad I did, liked them and pulled the trigger.  They are not without their flaws and I prefer them over the HD650 and HD600.  This is based on my preferances, gear and hearing.  Thanks to this community, my system is evolving and I'm really enjoying it. 

 

Wow, you flip gear faster than I can keep track!   You just saved up for the Bifrost after selling your Lorenz to play with your 650's, and you've already managed to pick up HD700s?  Don't tell me you had to sell the Logans to do it! rolleyes.gif

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