Sennheiser HD 700: Officially Unveiled at CES 2012! - Page 100

> I would guesstimate that the HD800 at least needs 20V P-P and a minimum output power of 200mW at 300Ohms. This is a rough estimate based on my experience with the headphone and my amps. I would think 30V P-P with 400mW of power would sound better but the different in power is tiny. IMO The more voltage the amp can swing an the more power it can output is preferably better. Also you get extra headroom with the added power and voltage, from my experience that is. I could be wrong but having power in reserve is a good thing.

So the $250 NFB12 is 28V P-P, and delivers 300mW at 300 ohms. Does this mean that upgrading to a Beta22 or something would not really improve sound quality aside from different coloration? If there's no more quality beyond that point, then buying something like a Beta22 is an awful lot of money to pay just for coloration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac500 

So the NFB12 is 28V P-P, and delivers 300mW at 300 ohms. Does this mean that upgrading to a Beta22 or something would not really improve sound quality aside from different coloration? If there's no more quality beyond that point, then buying something like a Beta22 is an awful lot of money to pay just for coloration.

The B22 is supposedly pretty neutral.  OTOH everything that AudioGD makes seems to have a lot of "character"...

I was just talking about ability to drive them, not sound quality. I didn't mean to come off as saying the M-Stage sounds better, I just meant there was no need to drop big bucks to power something. Especially when most of the time people suspect cheaper amps can not drive top tier cans well. It's, what's the way to word this, misinformation.

Of course the more expensive you go the better the sound will be but IMO anything past $1,000 is past the realm of diminishing returns. There's only so far you can go with SQ. I think that most super expensive amps don't improve the sound much after a point. You do pay for coloration though. The Liquid-Fire is colored but IMO, not all worth it's retail price. I would value it under $1,500, probably closer to $1,000. A lot of people buy amps for the HD800 trying to match them to tame the treble, aka coloration of the amp. So fit he amp has rolled off treble it is a coloration. 

I don't think I will be getting any new amps for a while as my current line up can drive just about anything short of demanding orthos. I like the B22 amps but could never justify the money for one. Not worth it to me.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac500 

> I would guesstimate that the HD800 at least needs 20V P-P and a minimum output power of 200mW at 300Ohms. This is a rough estimate based on my experience with the headphone and my amps. I would think 30V P-P with 400mW of power would sound better but the different in power is tiny. IMO The more voltage the amp can swing an the more power it can output is preferably better. Also you get extra headroom with the added power and voltage, from my experience that is. I could be wrong but having power in reserve is a good thing.

 

So the $250 NFB12 is 28V P-P, and delivers 300mW at 300 ohms. Does this mean that upgrading to a Beta22 or something would not really improve sound quality aside from different coloration? If there's no more quality beyond that point, then buying something like a Beta22 is an awful lot of money to pay just for coloration.

Double Post :(

Yes some Audio-GD gear is colored but I like their stuff. There's nothing wrong with buying a colored sounding amp if you like it, that's why I like my WA3+ and ROC amps. Just my opinions guys, so please don't get all fired up about it. Didn't mean to disrespect any amps wither, I just get tired of hearing "The HD800 requires a powerful amp", which clearly it doesn't, not does it need a powerful one to sound great.

I'll stop there guys. I don't want to argue at all I just want to state my mind on some matters. I hope you all can understand my views on these matters.

                   - Austin
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin 

The B22 is supposedly pretty neutral.  OTOH everything that AudioGD makes seems to have a lot of "character"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 

I guess I happen to be one of the few that can appreciate and enjoy both the HD800s and LCD-2s (and LCD-3s). I prefer the latter, but love the benefits of the former. I did happen to find the HD800's treble a bit tizzy with the Concerto, but on the WA2, WA22 or even GS-1, its quite good to my ears. No headphone is perfect, but both sound signatures have so much going for them. The bass/mids and liquidity of the LCD-2/3s vs. the clean and very open sounding HD800s. I actually enjoy owning both very much and while I do listen to my LCD-3s more often, the HD800s do get their fair share of head time too.

 

Why can't we all just get along?

Truthfully, Peter, I've just about convinced myself to re-purchase the HD800. Since both of my main amps -- the Grace m903 and Liquid Fire -- are reputed to have excellent synergy with the HD800, I feel a very strong urge to give them another extended listen. I don't think they'll upstage my HE-6, but who knows?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac500 

> I would guesstimate that the HD800 at least needs 20V P-P and a minimum output power of 200mW at 300Ohms. This is a rough estimate based on my experience with the headphone and my amps. I would think 30V P-P with 400mW of power would sound better but the different in power is tiny. IMO The more voltage the amp can swing an the more power it can output is preferably better. Also you get extra headroom with the added power and voltage, from my experience that is. I could be wrong but having power in reserve is a good thing.

 

So the $250 NFB12 is 28V P-P, and delivers 300mW at 300 ohms. Does this mean that upgrading to a Beta22 or something would not really improve sound quality aside from different coloration? If there's no more quality beyond that point, then buying something like a Beta22 is an awful lot of money to pay just for coloration.

I don't know about the Beta 22, only the Phoenix, but there is a distinct improvement going up the Audio-gd line in the way of improved detail, instrument separation and the like. The lower-end stuff is pleasant to listen with, but the sound is a bit mushed together. Going up the line it sounds like the musicians are in a bigger studio or venue and father apart with the music sounding less forced. Of course, this is with a considerable source upgrade as well.

I did find the HD-700s were a good match with my Stacker II, so I wouldn't be surprised if the HD-800s and LF might be similarly pleasant. The nice thing about the HD-700s and HD-800s is that their impedance is higher enough to use with a large variety of OTL tube amps as well though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olias of Sunhillow 

Truthfully, Peter, I've just about convinced myself to re-purchase the HD800. Since both of my main amps -- the Grace m903 and Liquid Fire -- are reputed to have excellent synergy with the HD800,

 

Michael Grace has the HD 800 and he designed the m902 and m903

LOL, this thread has turned into an HD800 analysis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrin 

LOL, this thread has turned into an HD800 analysis.

OK - back to the HD 700 .............................

Nice picture :)

Although I don't like how the headband padding extends through the top of the headband. The HD6x0 and HD800 intentionally puts a padding gap at the top to remove the uncomfortable pressure-on-the-top-of-your-head every other headphone has.

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 

If nothing else I think it looks pretty cool.  project86's pics make it look nicer than Senn's official ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olias of Sunhillow 

Truthfully, Peter, I've just about convinced myself to re-purchase the HD800. Since both of my main amps -- the Grace m903 and Liquid Fire -- are reputed to have excellent synergy with the HD800, I feel a very strong urge to give them another extended listen. I don't think they'll upstage my HE-6, but who knows?

 

Both are killer cans and each have their strengths/weaknesses. Tough call between them IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong 

I don't know about the Beta 22, only the Phoenix, but there is a distinct improvement going up the Audio-gd line in the way of improved detail, instrument separation and the like. The lower-end stuff is pleasant to listen with, but the sound is a bit mushed together. Going up the line it sounds like the musicians are in a bigger studio or venue and father apart with the music sounding less forced. Of course, this is with a considerable source upgrade as well.

 

Agreed...matches my experiences as well (except sub in the WA2/WA22/GS-1 as great amps that I've own/owned recently that match very well with the HD800s). And the source/dac is very important too.

Interesting senn has not  used a ring radiator, could it be possible senn is developing a hd 900 that also will not use a ring radiator? If so why ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac500 

Nice picture :)

 

Although I don't like how the headband padding extends through the top of the headband. The HD6x0 and HD800 intentionally puts a padding gap at the top to remove the uncomfortable pressure-on-the-top-of-your-head every other headphone has.

I do find it really comfy but you're right, that split in the middle was appreciated. Sennheiser did say that the padding was not final on this version, so perhaps that is something they plan to do on the production model.