Sennheiser HD 700: Officially Unveiled at CES 2012! - Page 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintly 

The iDecco may not be as bad as Anax suggested (although, I'm not too sure about that) but its DAC is far far from top of the line.  

 

So, what are the specs required to drive an HD800?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

So, what are the specs required to drive an HD800?

Me pointing out a flaw in your statement does not mean I have the answer to all the questions in life.  Sorry to disappoint.
 

That is quite disappointing.  Amidst all the amp talk, it would be nice if someone were to come out and give raw numbers for what's actually required to power an HD800.  Otherwise the critics are just giving shallow statements.

I understand you never directly questioned it, but on the flip side, a dac being good or world class shouldn't have much to do with a treble spike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

That is quite disappointing.  Amidst all the amp talk, it would be nice if someone were to come out and give raw numbers for what's actually required to power an HD800.  Otherwise the critics are just giving shallow statements.

 

I understand you never directly questioned it, but on the flip side, a dac being good or world class shouldn't have much to do with a treble spike.

 

I doubt there's a high minimum power requirement.  It's all about the type of colorations that you like.

Whether or not a DAC is world class may not have anything to do with the treble spike, but some DACs have more prominent treble than others.

What are you talking about TMRaven about "minimum requirements"? Amps are on a continuum of sound quality, I thought. My NFB12 powers my HD800s way louder than any human being would be able to take without bursting an ear drum, and it sounds amazing quality to me. But just because an NFB12 sounds great on an HD800 doesn't mean better amps won't sound drastically better yet.

But is that a coloration that you prefer or actually better powering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

But is that a coloration that you prefer or actually better powering?

Beyond a minimum power limit to provide control and headroom for dynamics, it's probably coloration that suits your personal preferences.

With that said, I've honestly enjoyed everything I've heard with the exception of D2000.  It's ultimately about the music for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

But is that a coloration that you prefer or actually better powering?

Its just color.  the whole "not powering it properly" thing is BS.

There is some point though where your not powering it properly, for example when I run the HD800 out of my macbook it sounds terrible. That's not due to coloration, but an issues of sound quality / congestion etc. Since upgrading amps DO improve sound quality, then my question is, do I benefit from upgrading to a better dac/amp than my NFB12 assuming I like my NFB12's coloration?

I just don't understand the above points. Are people saying that amps are more or less the same after a certain price point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin 

Its just color.  the whole "not powering it properly" thing is BS.

This is the case in most situations but there is a minimum limit to the amount of current and voltage that a pair of headphones need for proper control and headroom for dynamics.  Just because it can be driven loud enough doesn't mean it's being adequately powered.

A Toyota Prius can also eventually get to speeds of 120 mph but its acceleration and strain on the engine from doing so is not the same as that of a Ferrari.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saintly 

This is the case in most situations but there is a minimum limit to the amount of current and voltage that a pair of headphones need for proper control and headroom for dynamics.  Just because it can be driven loud enough doesn't mean it's being adequately powered.

Obviously.  But its not like those standards are that hard to meet.  The HD800 is reasonably sensitive and efficient.  It doesn't need tons of voltage or suck down lots of current and its not hard to find amps that can provide that cleanly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin 

Obviously.  But its not like those standards are that hard to meet.  The HD800 is reasonably sensitive and efficient.  It doesn't need tons of voltage or suck down lots of current and its not hard to find amps that can provide that cleanly.

That's pretty much what I said earlier on this page.

And my original comment was just telling TMRaven that continually chasing more expensive amps is pretty much just about coloration, looks, or bragging rights and not about accuracy.  It already assumed the basics.

I would guesstimate that the HD800 at least needs 20V P-P and a minimum output power of 200mW at 300Ohms. This is a rough estimate based on my experience with the headphone and my amps. I would think 30V P-P with 400mW of power would sound better but the different in power is tiny. IMO The more voltage the amp can swing an the more power it can output is preferably better. Also you get extra headroom with the added power and voltage, from my experience that is. I could be wrong but having power in reserve is a good thing.

Also the HD800 doesn't need a beast of an amp to sound really good. I've used the Matrix M-Stage numerous times as an example as it can power them very nicely. No need for $2000 amps at all, not even the Liquid-Fire is "the" amp to get. I like getting beefier amps so that I have more power in reserve, as some headphone can be demanding of the amp. Also going with a beefier amp kind of future proofs you.

Since we were talking about the HD800's treble spike earlier I thought I'd give my two scents on the matter. They DO have a peak in the treble and it gives the sense of detail, but it's really just fake detail. HiFi manufacturers employ added treble to make stuff sound more detailed than it is. The HD800, IMO, is no more detailed than the T1. It's jsut the HD800 has that spike and makes it sound more detailed. The K702 is a good example as it has boosted treble which gives off the perception of "hyper detail". The K702 is a bit less detailed than the DT880 and HD600 in reality.

Also amps are not to blame for this, but if the amp is bright in nature it can intensify this a bit. The HD800 is not picky either, it's all about the coloration of the amp. If it sounds bad on one amp everyone says the HD800 is picky, but I call BS. 

A 20V P-P sine wave is 7V RMS and 119dB peaks with an HD800s.  If the amp is already clean at that level it not like more power is going to help much.