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post #271 of 388

I just got my X5 and have been burning it in a bit. I also ordered the DX90 yesterday to replace my DX50 so I should be able to do a comparison shortly in terms of pairing with the NT6pro. I am hoping that they have complementary signatures for different uses.

 

Is anyone planning on being a Calyx M early adopter so we can hear how that pairs with the NT6pro? Has anyone tried pairing the Hiditions to the ZX1?

post #272 of 388

They look very clean!! Haha guess you got the inspiration right in their library :DD

post #273 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Culter View Post

They look very clean!! Haha guess you got the inspiration right in their library :DD

The library option made ordering easy given the language barrier.
post #274 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post

 

 Has anyone tried pairing the Hiditions to the ZX1?

Sounds hopeless to me .... ;)

post #275 of 388
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Edited by Barra - 4/8/14 at 11:01am
post #276 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post

 

 Has anyone tried pairing the Hiditions to the ZX1?

Sounds hopeless to me .... ;)

So count out the zx1 or were you just referring to my ability to keep up with your audio collection? :wink_face:

 

If so, that would be good news to narrow down the field. Is it due to the lack of a sufficient amp, or is the dac weakly implemented as well?

 

BTW, when are you expecting to get the K10? We are all egarly awaiting your comparison of the two. Is the K10 any better, complementary, of just different than the Hidition?

post #277 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
 

So count out the zx1 or were you just referring to my ability to keep up with your audio collection? :wink_face:

 

If so, that would be good news to narrow down the field. Is it due to the lack of a sufficient amp, or is the dac weakly implemented as well?

 

BTW, when are you expecting to get the K10? We are all egarly awaiting your comparison of the two. Is the K10 any better, complementary, of just different than the Hidition?

:) ZX1 pairs well with only a few CIEMs and those doesn't include HIDITION IMO. because ZX1 has a type of clear, clean sound and it's has a high out impedance, so I wouldn't pair it with (fairly) sensitive CIEMs.

 

I haven't tired to amp it yet, but I am sure it will definitely improve.

 

I should be getting my K10 in like a week time. I will let you know for sure. From the demo I can say that it's definitely something different compared to hidition, but in terms of technical ability I think one can surpass the other.

post #278 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post
 

:) ZX1 pairs well with only a few CIEMs and those doesn't include HIDITION IMO. because ZX1 has a type of clear, clean sound and it's has a high out impedance, so I wouldn't pair it with (fairly) sensitive CIEMs.

 

I haven't tired to amp it yet, but I am sure it will definitely improve.

 

I should be getting my K10 in like a week time. I will let you know for sure. From the demo I can say that it's definitely something different compared to hidition, but in terms of technical ability I think one can surpass the other.

This is a no for multiple BA iems because if it has multiple BA, they need crossovers or filter network which is just resistors and capacitors.  The output impedance would change the resistance value of the crossover and mess up the FR so you want really small output impedance.

post #279 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

This is a no for multiple BA iems because if it has multiple BA, they need crossovers or filter network which is just resistors and capacitors.  The output impedance would change the resistance value of the crossover and mess up the FR so you want really small output impedance.

That's what I meant, ZX1 has a high output impedance so it's not good for sensitive (low impedance) CIEMs, but it's still good for some of my multi-BA CIEM, e.g. SE5 which has 135 Ohm impedance and from my memory K10 sounds really good with it too.

post #280 of 388
Zx1 pairs with NT6 ok, but a bit too bright and fatiguing. Prefer with 901
post #281 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post  That's what I meant, ZX1 has a high output impedance so it's not good for sensitive (low impedance) CIEMs, but it's still good for some of my multi-BA CIEM, e.g. SE5 which has 135 Ohm impedance and from my memory K10 sounds really good with it too.

 

How do you know?

 

EDIT:

Okay, fine; I won't bait --- I know that's not right. Class D designs inherently have very low output impedance because they usually run feedback in a full-bridge design across the LPF. Essentially, OI is effectively "zero" with properly implemented Class D designs, except for out-of-band frequencies, such as >20 kHz, where it'll increase significantly, because that's where the switching voltage fluctuates a lot. Full-bridge Class D designs will dampen essentially any load it can detect effectively. Power/voltage are entirely different questions, and that goes into the switch efficiency of its caps.

 

This is why reginalb had trouble measuring the OI.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post
 

So, this is very odd. I received a dummy load in the mail today. Measuring output impedance seems pretty straightforward. Use my multimeter to measure output voltage, attach dummy load, repeat, calculate. To test how easy this was, I used my Clip+, and consistently get the same measurements. I calculated a 1.06 ohm output impedance, improved my connection and got 1 on the dot. Pretty much right on where you would expect. Output voltage is low, as you'd expect. But it's plenty high enough to get a reliable measurement, exactly what I would expect from something putting  out 10mW.

 

So I moved on to the ZX1, and it's output voltage is just vanishingly low. I'm using a 1000Hz test signal, and I just can't get a measurement that's worth noting. It's so damn low I can't reliably calculate the output impedance. I can tell you that it's between 0 and 8 ohms. Every measurement has been one or the other. Loaded, I basically get .0001V and I get .0001 or .0002V with no load. Is there something about a class D amp that might lead to what I'm seeing? Any way, knowing that the wattage is about the same as the Clip+, if the voltage is much lower, there must be a lot more current, but I also measure more current from the clip+. So I thought, maybe the headphone jack isn't outputting anything, so I plugged in some headphones, and that's not the case. None of this makes any sense.

 

I've used the multimeter enough to know what I'm doing, but this is the first time I've used a dummy load. But again, I've not had trouble with the aforementioned Clip+, or my E18 (which I measured at 1.78 ohm output impedance when set to low gain, if anyone's interested.)

 

If your eyes glazed over with tech talk, I can give you some subjective thoughts --- with high OI, my UERM will usually sound really dark and have bleh bass response. It does not sound that way with neither my F886 nor the ZX1s that I've tried.


Edited by tomscy2000 - 4/9/14 at 9:53am
post #282 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

How do you know?

 

EDIT:

Okay, fine; I won't bait --- I know that's not right. Class D designs inherently have very low output impedance because they usually run feedback in a full-bridge design across the LPF. Essentially, OI is effectively "zero" with properly implemented Class D designs, except for out-of-band frequencies, such as >20 kHz, where it'll increase significantly, because that's where the switching voltage fluctuates a lot. Full-bridge Class D designs will dampen essentially any load it can detect effectively. Power/voltage are entirely different questions, and that goes into the switch efficiency of its caps.

 

This is why reginalb had trouble measuring the OI.

 

 

If your eyes glazed over with tech talk, I can give you some subjective thoughts --- with high OI, my UERM will usually sound really dark and have bleh bass response. It does not sound that way with neither my F886 nor the ZX1s that I've tried.

Thanks for the input. I am no expert at all in this regard. I just judged from pairing ZX1 with my CIEMs. some sensitive CIEMs sounds a bit off with background hiss. ZX1 is not a dark source for me no matter what CIEM I pair it with, but some sound brighter, some just sound different compared to my desktop source. so I assumed its OI won't be super low like other DAP like 901 or Dx100.  

 

Actually ZX1 is the best source I have ever heard to date for my SE5, very clean, neutral and dynamic. It just didn't pair NT6 well enough.

post #283 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

How do you know?

 

EDIT:

Okay, fine; I won't bait --- I know that's not right. Class D designs inherently have very low output impedance because they usually run feedback in a full-bridge design across the LPF. Essentially, OI is effectively "zero" with properly implemented Class D designs, except for out-of-band frequencies, such as >20 kHz, where it'll increase significantly, because that's where the switching voltage fluctuates a lot. Full-bridge Class D designs will dampen essentially any load it can detect effectively. Power/voltage are entirely different questions, and that goes into the switch efficiency of its caps.

 

This is why reginalb had trouble measuring the OI.

 

 

If your eyes glazed over with tech talk, I can give you some subjective thoughts --- with high OI, my UERM will usually sound really dark and have bleh bass response. It does not sound that way with neither my F886 nor the ZX1s that I've tried.

 

Thank you, I suspected that the Class-D design might be the cause of what I was seeing. I appreciate that feedback. I can also chime in that the ZX1 seems to have no trouble with my very low resistance Merlins.

post #284 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post
 

:) ZX1 pairs well with only a few CIEMs and those doesn't include HIDITION IMO. because ZX1 has a type of clear, clean sound and it's has a high out impedance, so I wouldn't pair it with (fairly) sensitive CIEMs.

 

I haven't tired to amp it yet, but I am sure it will definitely improve.

 

I should be getting my K10 in like a week time. I will let you know for sure. From the demo I can say that it's definitely something different compared to hidition, but in terms of technical ability I think one can surpass the other.

 

You keep saying the zx1 has high output impedance. Have you measured it because no one seems to know what it is. 

post #285 of 388

Ahh just read the previous posts. Shame you can't get a reading on what it is. You would think it would be in the tech specs for the device. 

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