Linux users unite! - Page 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinQY 

Holy....

Did anyone else on Arch get X updated to WAYLAND?!@#!

Nvm mesa merge

I wonder why wayland is being installed as a dependency??

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton007 

I wonder why wayland is being installed as a dependency??

Dunno, asked on IRC, checked the forums, guess not too much attention on this yet. Found one thread mentioning the mesa stuff but didn't include Wayland. Sort of able to guess why but pure speculation. 

Now to try the mailing lists...

Nvm...again. Mesa has been supporting Wayland for a while now so it's a dependency. Maybe it'll compile if I strip it off the config.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinQY 

And quite a few are exclusive to Arch as well, or at least found out through Arch first.

 

A great deal better than Gentoo though. And orders of magnitude better than Sid :P

I couldn't disagree more. I have never seen such a top notch QA as is going on with Gentoo. But Arch, yeah.. worst of the worst, the amount of crap is neverending. The default install is broken. The packages are broken. If a user asks help on a software channel because it's not working for him, 70% chance he's using Arch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLACKENEDPLAGUE 

And seriously, all these people saying "HURR IF YOU AREN'T USING A 1337 DESTOP ENVIRONMENT YOU AREN'T DOING LINUX" are contributing to the still (though not as) unpopularity of the linux kernal

It's kernel. Ker-nel, it's a 6 character word, and rather easy to read and write, why do I keep seeing this "kernal" everywhere. Beside that, I've never heard anyone claim you need a 1337 desktop to be doing Linux, from what I know Linux is rather popular, and the kernel has nothing to do with popularity - if, it's praised for its hardware support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laen 

It's kernel. Ker-nel, it's a 6 character word, and rather easy to read and write, why do I keep seeing this "kernal" everywhere. Beside that, I've never heard anyone claim you need a 1337 desktop to be doing Linux, from what I know Linux is rather popular, and the kernel has nothing to do with popularity - if, it's praised for its hardware support.

U WOT M8

Quote:

Originally Posted by laen 

 

I couldn't disagree more. I have never seen such a top notch QA as is going on with Gentoo. But Arch, yeah.. worst of the worst, the amount of crap is neverending. The default install is broken. The packages are broken. If a user asks help on a software channel because it's not working for him, 70% chance he's using Arch.

Hmmm... I think you have some truth, but maybe telling it in the wrong way.  The default install works alright, I've installed it on two systems recently. There have been some issues currently due to the shift to systemd, but other than that, I've never faced any problem with the official packages.

The Arch wiki is really good, and has helped me learn a few concepts in the past. Regarding problems, yes, I've seen that Arch forums have solved a lot of problems. That also means the Arch community solves more problems than others, and its helped me to solve issues on other distros, many a times. I haven't seen a lot of Gentoo forums in this respect, but it either means Gentoo users don't face problems, or that their problems are already solved on the Arch forums.

dubble post 0o

Another linux user cheking in

It started about 10 years ago with red hat 6.3 iirc, very basic graphical installer and lots of things needed to be installed with commands. Didnt have much time for it and game or even 3d support was non-existend so i didnt use it much but it did got my interests poked. A few years ago i decided to try it again, with suse 11.3 this time. having a ati radeon card i was semi-screwed since fglrx didnt work half decent with ati cards at the time. X kept crashing after driver changes etc, apart from a horrid experience with 3d support i still used for simpler/casual things because its just felt nice; Stable, fast, and very easy to work with after getting used to it, mainly prefered gnome at the time.

This time im in for good

I thought i install w7 on my pc, xp was on it for 3+ years and it got slooooooooow. Windows 7 lasted for an hour i think, got 1 crash and was cursing and whatnot at it because mr gates decided to put everything somewhere else or just completely remove menu's. I downloaded linux and kinda rage-quit windows

Since i was comfortable with suse i thought to start there, downloaded suse 12.4 live and put it on a flashdrive(no dvd at hand). Too bad it seems suse live doesnt boot from usb...

Now running mint 14 kde for now, just installed and customized it a bit. I used to prefer gnome but the brief time i tried cinnamon and mate didnt really do it and cinnamon acted a bit weird with the legacy ati drivers. Prolly gonna try the gnome versions later on. But i was gaming a fair bit an used it less and less.

Im still trying to decide what im gonna try next and eventually settle for, Mageia seems promising and suse netinstall is supposed to work from flashdrive.

some shots of my DE

Quote:

Originally Posted by laen 

I couldn't disagree more. I have never seen such a top notch QA as is going on with Gentoo. But Arch, yeah.. worst of the worst, the amount of crap is neverending. The default install is broken. The packages are broken. If a user asks help on a software channel because it's not working for him, 70% chance he's using Arch.

 

You're going to have to quantify how the default install or packages are broken. 

 

Frequency of bug reports and direct correlation towards lackluster quality of packaging is fallacious at best, as it would be disregarding one simple piece of logic - that the Arch userbase is larger (not that that's good or anything) and would therefor notice more bugs/ would also put in the effort to submit one due to the stigma placed on the community. Also a relatively inexperienced userbase so more often than not they submit bug reports for EVERYTHING. 

 

If one was to pay attention to upstream bug submissions one would also notice an overwhelming amount of Fedora and vanilla Slackware users. Does that mean anything? Not in particular. Just the audience in particular is privy to that sort of stuff.

 

Also, one cannot judge stability without having used it for a significant period of time. I've had a crappy Gentoo install for 6 years and it's been borked significantly more often that the 4-5 year old Arch install (and considering the major infrastructure changes within Arch that is either sheer luck on my part or a great achievement). Same hardware. But those are personal anecdotes and as such I can't substantiate or generalize an opinion towards either distros from said anecdotes. I would still have to quantify my opinions accordingly.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitch 

Another linux user cheking in

 

It started about 10 years ago with red hat 6.3 iirc, very basic graphical installer and lots of things needed to be installed with commands. Didnt have much time for it and game or even 3d support was non-existend so i didnt use it much but it did got my interests poked. A few years ago i decided to try it again, with suse 11.3 this time. having a ati radeon card i was semi-screwed since fglrx didnt work half decent with ati cards at the time. X kept crashing after driver changes etc, apart from a horrid experience with 3d support i still used for simpler/casual things because its just felt nice; Stable, fast, and very easy to work with after getting used to it, mainly prefered gnome at the time.

 

This time im in for good

I thought i install w7 on my pc, xp was on it for 3+ years and it got slooooooooow. Windows 7 lasted for an hour i think, got 1 crash and was cursing and whatnot at it because mr gates decided to put everything somewhere else or just completely remove menu's. I downloaded linux and kinda rage-quit windows

Since i was comfortable with suse i thought to start there, downloaded suse 12.4 live and put it on a flashdrive(no dvd at hand). Too bad it seems suse live doesnt boot from usb...

Now running mint 14 kde for now, just installed and customized it a bit. I used to prefer gnome but the brief time i tried cinnamon and mate didnt really do it and cinnamon acted a bit weird with the legacy ati drivers. Prolly gonna try the gnome versions later on. But i was gaming a fair bit an used it less and less.

 

Im still trying to decide what im gonna try next and eventually settle for, Mageia seems promising and suse netinstall is supposed to work from flashdrive.

 

some shots of my DE

KDE + good?

Oh that really means you need to check out Chakra :p

I saw some shots of it, looks slick indeed.

I've got a seemingly big issue at hand now. I was using my NTFS drives as i was in windows without a hitch. But i wanted to continue the tedious task of ripping my entire cd collection(200+) to flac. Suddenly it cant write to my music partition anymore, tuns out i cant acces any NTFS drive anymore directly. If i first go to /home and then to the NTFS drives its ok......

This is the error, i tried the interwebs but i couldnt find anything usefull, only a reference to ntfs-3g wich is already installed and reinstalling didnt fix it....

edit; Amarok can read from the drive....

Running a dual-boot Win7 and Ubuntu. No problems with either. I couldn't find a cd ripper I liked for Linux, so I rip em in windows and listen in Linux, works like a charm! Funny how Linux can access windows files and such but windows can't see my Linux stuff. I love Ubuntu, only problem I have is finding quality software for it, but I get by.

The lesser Win 7 I use, the crappier it seems. Every time it has a bucketload of updates to install, and a couple of times it shut down my pc during gaming because it auto-restarts during updates, unless I manually postpone it (the window for which I couldn't see because of the game being full screen). It just seems to be doing something or the other totally unrelated to the user applications (high disk and cpu usage).

Oh, and really enjoying the KDE 4.10 release. Works almost perfectly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton007 

Hmmm... I think you have some truth, but maybe telling it in the wrong way.

I'm really good at telling things the wrong way, so that could surely be the case ;).

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton007 

The Arch wiki is really good, and has helped me learn a few concepts in the past. Regarding problems, yes, I've seen that Arch forums have solved a lot of problems. That also means the Arch community solves more problems than others, and its helped me to solve issues on other distros, many a times. I haven't seen a lot of Gentoo forums in this respect, but it either means Gentoo users don't face problems, or that their problems are already solved on the Arch forums.

The Arch wiki was an almost direct copy of the Gentoo wiki, before the datacenter it was in burned down and all data was lost because the idiot who hosted it didn't have offsite backups. So, yeah, that wiki content Arch users praise, is not an "Arch thing" to praise. Arch Linux has of course added to it in the past 2 years.

The reason you may see less similar Gentoo forum topics of which you see Arch forum topics may point to the lack of QA as I have pointed out before. That, and the lack of quality devs (I mean, everyone can build from source, but come on.. what I spot on the Arch forums is stuff that should've been sorted out and known to the dev before the package went live).

The size of the userbase or amount of filed bugs as TwinQY points out, is not a measure of quality, a lesser amount of silly bugs that should have never landed in a live system might be, but even that is debatable. I see Gentoo devs reporting bugs upstream (as themselves, not as "X doesn't work in Gentoo")"), to simply get it fixed at the source and not requiring Gentoo-added patches next software release. Patches, not just bugs, actually fixing stuff for software and delivering patches to projects, is a measure of quality.

That last thing can be seen in the Gentoo Hardened project, where software is fixed (PIC for example) with patches created for it, submitted upstream and available in the repo as long as required. There's nothing like that available in the Arch wiki, not even an info page or reference to what a user can expect from his installed software.

But oh well, as you mentioned, you had problems with Gentoo for years.. Gentoo does somehow require you to make choices on what software support you want, you're your own maintainer of the environment you install it on. If you're lacking experience and time and mess it up, "crap in, crap out".