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Audeze LCD-3 Impressions Thread - Page 38

post #556 of 4533

Took the words right out of my mouth. Unfair to judge worth of the LCD3 with no DAC. a Lyr, and 0 hours. :|

 

Dragonfly - $250

Lyr - $450

LCD3 - $1945

-----------------------

$2645

 

I would've personally gone for:

 

Gungnir w/ USB- $850

Mjolnir - $750

LCD2 - $995

Take the gf out to dinner - $50

------------------------

$2645

 

Latter would probably be a... wiser choice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Sorry, but the Lyr was pretty far from being a great amp with the LCD-3s. With top notch cans like the LCD-3s or HD800s, it's about the entire setup...Source - DAC - AMP and headphones. Really revealing headphones like these will only reveal what "issues" you have upstream. Thankfully when I owned my Lyr, I still had my WA22 in house and could really hear what the LCD-3s were capable of (my DAC at the time was the fantastic Cary XCiter DAC). I've since "upgraded" my gear and the LCD-3s (and HD800s for that matter) have followed me on that journey by sounding better and better.

 

As well, I'd recommend giving them about a 100 hours or so too. Congrats on the LCD-3s. Next to the much more expensive SR-009s, they are the best headphones I've ever heard!


Edited by Girls Generation - 3/1/13 at 11:03pm
post #557 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Sorry, but the Lyr was pretty far from being a great amp with the LCD-3s. With top notch cans like the LCD-3s or HD800s, it's about the entire setup...Source - DAC - AMP and headphones. Really revealing headphones like these will only reveal what "issues" you have upstream. Thankfully when I owned my Lyr, I still had my WA22 in house and could really hear what the LCD-3s were capable of (my DAC at the time was the fantastic Cary XCiter DAC). I've since "upgraded" my gear and the LCD-3s (and HD800s for that matter) have followed me on that journey by sounding better and better.

 

As well, I'd recommend giving them about a 100 hours or so too. Congrats on the LCD-3s. Next to the much more expensive SR-009s, they are the best headphones I've ever heard!


OK, so...I'm new to all of this, I get that.  However, I've been a 2-channel guy for a while, and I've heard what happens to equipment over time.  I've also got a degree in acoustics, so I at least can get somewhat of a grasp on how everything works (definitely not bragging here, just giving context).  Sure, I've had these for a day.  Sure, there are more expensive amps out there.  The Lyr more than satisfies what Audeze suggest for these.  At $2000+$450, these do sound better than my PSB M4U2's, but I'm sorry, these have a LOOOOOONG way to go before they come close to my $560 Paradigm Shift a2 powered monitors.  I use the same source for all of my music: MOG via Macbook pro over an optical or usb DAC.  Absolutely no complaints from my Paradigms or my 1.7's (and you can't tell me the 1.7s do not reveal "issues" upstream.)  Maybe it's just that I've been spoiled with that awesome sound stage in front of me produced by speakers, but even if these $2000 cans could approach them with even more money, damn...you're talking the same price (most likely way more) as a formidable Magnepan 1.7 system (among many other options). 

 

Sure, I know I'll get the arguments about not giving it time to break in, or the Lyr isn't a good match.  C'mon people!  The technology in this hobby (speaker or can) is nothing new...not by a long shot.  There is a certain placebo effect that no one likes to talk about.  We start on the less expensive stuff, just getting into things...move to bigger and bigger ($$$ and $$$$$$$) and we say it sounds better, because it damn well better considering what we just shelled out for it.  Well, I will say the $75,000 Magico system I heard was the best I've ever experienced in audio (that's just an insane amount of money, and not even half of what bigger systems go for).  But after hearing top-of-the-line cans vs. the $500 paradigms or $2200 Maggie 1.7's, no amount of money will bring these LCD's (or any headphone) to the level of audio that even a decent near-field system can yield--at least not for me.  Even my old Audioengine A5's kill them. 

 

Obviously this is my opinion, and I'm sure it isn't a popular one on these boards (no one likes a newbie talking schiit), but I'm just giving my honest opinion.  I could spend a year with these guys, but they'll never be speakers...not even close (nothing changes that much with break in).  I'm just a little shocked at how far off they really are, considering the cost.

post #558 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

Took the words right out of my mouth. Unfair to judge worth of the LCD3 with no DAC. a Lyr, and 0 hours. :|

 

Dragonfly - $250

Lyr - $450

LCD3 - $1945

-----------------------

$2645

 

I would've personally gone for:

 

Gungnir w/ USB- $850

Mjolnir - $750

LCD2 - $995

Take the gf out to dinner - $50

------------------------

$2645

 

Latter would probably be a... wiser choice.

 

No, I don't think it's unfair.  We're talking light years in sonic character differences here.


Sorry, maybe it's different in head-fi, but if there's one thing I learned in 2-channel hi-fi speaker system, the price tag doesn't impress me at all.  Just because something costs $2000 doesn't mean you need another $2000 to make it sound good.  And even 1000 hrs isn't going to make THAT big of a difference. 

 

The latter very well could sound better than what I've got, but still...I'd bet the farm they don't touch 25% of that cost in speakers.  The music will always be stuck in between your ears.  Throw $10,000 at a Source DAC Amp Can rig and I'd bet people are going to choose the sweetspot of a system with $2500 Tekton Pendragons and a $150, 35 wpc amp from parts express playing off of an iPod. 

 

I'm sure I'm saying nothing new.  Speakers are not headphones.  To each their own, but I'm obviously a speaker guy. 


Edited by Bwaz - 3/1/13 at 11:42pm
post #559 of 4533

Obviously you're new here, so I won't rage so hard :P

 

This is a headphones forum, and specifically, the LCD3 appreciation thread. Going on about speakers and its superiority and how the LCD3's price is not justified at all isn't much appreciated. Most are already aware what speakers offer over headphones, but headphones do have their own advantages, and we have our reasons why we opted for headphones over speakers.

 

Further, you have a Lyr, barely any hours, and you're claiming that anything more 'expensive' than the Lyr is just placebo, or something among the lines of this. But you're using MBP out directly into a Lyr. 

 

The choice was yours, to spend $1000 over the LCD2, when it's the general consensus that the LCD3 doesn't offer a large improvement over the LCD2. And yet, you're complaining how the LCD3's price is well under-justified in comparison to your $560 speakers. I'll leave it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaz View Post

No, I don't think it's unfair.  We're talking light years in sonic character differences here.


Sorry, maybe it's different in head-fi, but if there's one thing I learned in 2-channel hi-fi speaker system, the price tag doesn't impress me at all.  Just because something costs $2000 doesn't mean you need another $2000 to make it sound good.  And even 1000 hrs isn't going to make THAT big of a difference. 

 

The latter very well could sound better than what I've got, but still...I'd bet the farm they don't touch 25% of that cost in speakers.  The music will always be stuck in between your ears.  Throw $10,000 at a Source DAC Amp Can rig and I'd bet people are going to choose the sweetspot of a system with $2500 Tekton Pendragons and a $150, 35 wpc amp from parts express playing off of an iPod. 

 

I'm sure I'm saying nothing new.  Speakers are not headphones.  To each their own, but I'm obviously a speaker guy. 

post #560 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaz View Post


OK, so...I'm new to all of this, I get that.  However, I've been a 2-channel guy for a while, and I've heard what happens to equipment over time.  I've also got a degree in acoustics, so I at least can get somewhat of a grasp on how everything works (definitely not bragging here, just giving context).  Sure, I've had these for a day.  Sure, there are more expensive amps out there.  The Lyr more than satisfies what Audeze suggest for these.  At $2000+$450, these do sound better than my PSB M4U2's, but I'm sorry, these have a LOOOOOONG way to go before they come close to my $560 Paradigm Shift a2 powered monitors.  I use the same source for all of my music: MOG via Macbook pro over an optical or usb DAC.  Absolutely no complaints from my Paradigms or my 1.7's (and you can't tell me the 1.7s do not reveal "issues" upstream.)  Maybe it's just that I've been spoiled with that awesome sound stage in front of me produced by speakers, but even if these $2000 cans could approach them with even more money, damn...you're talking the same price (most likely way more) as a formidable Magnepan 1.7 system (among many other options). 

 

Sure, I know I'll get the arguments about not giving it time to break in, or the Lyr isn't a good match.  C'mon people!  The technology in this hobby (speaker or can) is nothing new...not by a long shot.  There is a certain placebo effect that no one likes to talk about.  We start on the less expensive stuff, just getting into things...move to bigger and bigger ($$$ and $$$$$$$) and we say it sounds better, because it damn well better considering what we just shelled out for it.  Well, I will say the $75,000 Magico system I heard was the best I've ever experienced in audio (that's just an insane amount of money, and not even half of what bigger systems go for).  But after hearing top-of-the-line cans vs. the $500 paradigms or $2200 Maggie 1.7's, no amount of money will bring these LCD's (or any headphone) to the level of audio that even a decent near-field system can yield--at least not for me.  Even my old Audioengine A5's kill them. 

 

Obviously this is my opinion, and I'm sure it isn't a popular one on these boards (no one likes a newbie talking schiit), but I'm just giving my honest opinion.  I could spend a year with these guys, but they'll never be speakers...not even close (nothing changes that much with break in).  I'm just a little shocked at how far off they really are, considering the cost.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaz View Post

No, I don't think it's unfair.  We're talking light years in sonic character differences here.


Sorry, maybe it's different in head-fi, but if there's one thing I learned in 2-channel hi-fi speaker system, the price tag doesn't impress me at all.  Just because something costs $2000 doesn't mean you need another $2000 to make it sound good.  And even 1000 hrs isn't going to make THAT big of a difference. 

 

The latter very well could sound better than what I've got, but still...I'd bet the farm they don't touch 25% of that cost in speakers.  The music will always be stuck in between your ears.  Throw $10,000 at a Source DAC Amp Can rig and I'd bet people are going to choose the sweetspot of a system with $2500 Tekton Pendragons and a $150, 35 wpc amp from parts express playing off of an iPod. 

 

I'm sure I'm saying nothing new.  Speakers are not headphones.  To each their own, but I'm obviously a speaker guy. 

Hey the place you bought them from.......do they have a return policy? Cause there is no way based on what you've written that you are going to like the LCD3s and for $2,000 you should really like them. This is the LCD3 appreciation thread......not that all need to be fan boys who post here but maybe you want to start the LCD3 I'm disappointed thread. LOL  I don't know if I'm kidding or not.

post #561 of 4533

Saraguie! 2 sentences comparing 334 to Miracles! Go! 

 

Thanks :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

 

Hey the place you bought them from.......do they have a return policy? Cause there is no way based on what you've written that you are going to like the LCD3s and for $2,000 you should really like them. This is the LCD3 appreciation thread......not that all need to be fan boys who post here but maybe you want to start the LCD3 I'm disappointed thread. LOL  I don't know if I'm kidding or not.

post #562 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

Saraguie! 2 sentences comparing 334 to Miracles! Go! 

 

Thanks :D

How about; 1 + 1 does not equal 2?  Miracles plus 334 do not equal LCD3!  biggrin.gif

 

My friend Thor will have something to say about that when he wakes up he will be a-posting!

 

GG welcome to LCD3 land. Have I ever told you that your avatars rock! beerchug.gif

post #563 of 4533

I see... I guess that makes sense in a strange way. :P

 

Thanks, still getting used to them, discovering things. I'll probably decide soon if I'll be leaving LCD3 land or not after a good thorough A/B and some budget changes.

 

I AM my Avatars! My name is Girls Generation, no? ;);)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

How about; 1 + 1 does not equal 2?  Miracles plus 334 do not equal LCD3!  biggrin.gif

 

My friend Thor will have something to say about that when he wakes up he will be a-posting!

 

GG welcome to LCD3 land. Have I ever told you that your avatars rock! beerchug.gif

post #564 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

 

Hey the place you bought them from.......do they have a return policy? Cause there is no way based on what you've written that you are going to like the LCD3s and for $2,000 you should really like them. This is the LCD3 appreciation thread......not that all need to be fan boys who post here but maybe you want to start the LCD3 I'm disappointed thread. LOL  I don't know if I'm kidding or not.


Lol...disappointment thread.  No, I knew I'd come across this way, but I was really just trying to express my amazement at how much difference there is between cans and speakers.  Both you and Girls Generation are right to get on my case, and I sure don't blame you.  I will most likely (ok, I will) be returning these.

 

Sorry, Girls Generation, I'm not claiming it's "just placebo," I'm claiming the difference in these cans vs. what even near-field monitors can do for a small fraction of the cost is so big, no amount of money thrown at them will compete.  I had always thought the really high-end headphones would give you a lot of a high-end speaker sound for a lot less money.  I'm just expressing my disappointment in finding out I was wrong. 

 

Different strokes for different folks is all.  I'd rather run the risk of pissing off my neighbors than sacrificing so much just to be sure I don't rattle their walls.

post #565 of 4533

Well, in the headphone world, most consider the source and amp more important than the headphone itself, meaning it's better to drive a lesser headphone to it's max potential, than to under drive summit-fi cans. You seriously got the balance wrong on this one, didn't give it a proper go. But speakers is a whole different beast, thought it really is comparing apples to oranges.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaz View Post


Lol...disappointment thread.  No, I knew I'd come across this way, but I was really just trying to express my amazement at how much difference there is between cans and speakers.  Both you and Girls Generation are right to get on my case, and I sure don't blame you.  I will most likely (ok, I will) be returning these.

 

Sorry, Girls Generation, I'm not claiming it's "just placebo," I'm claiming the difference in these cans vs. what even near-field monitors can do for a small fraction of the cost is so big, no amount of money thrown at them will compete.  I had always thought the really high-end headphones would give you a lot of a high-end speaker sound for a lot less money.  I'm just expressing my disappointment in finding out I was wrong. 

 

Different strokes for different folks is all.  I'd rather run the risk of pissing off my neighbors than sacrificing so much just to be sure I don't rattle their walls.

post #566 of 4533
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post

Would you please share what is your current gear to the LCD3s?

Cambridge Audio 650C (CD Transport) or my iMac --> Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 --> GS-X (with upgraded Dynahi+ modules) --> Dynamic Headphones


Edited by MacedonianHero - 3/2/13 at 7:23am
post #567 of 4533
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaz View Post


OK, so...I'm new to all of this, I get that.  However, I've been a 2-channel guy for a while, and I've heard what happens to equipment over time.  I've also got a degree in acoustics, so I at least can get somewhat of a grasp on how everything works (definitely not bragging here, just giving context).  Sure, I've had these for a day.  Sure, there are more expensive amps out there.  The Lyr more than satisfies what Audeze suggest for these.  At $2000+$450, these do sound better than my PSB M4U2's, but I'm sorry, these have a LOOOOOONG way to go before they come close to my $560 Paradigm Shift a2 powered monitors.  I use the same source for all of my music: MOG via Macbook pro over an optical or usb DAC.  Absolutely no complaints from my Paradigms or my 1.7's (and you can't tell me the 1.7s do not reveal "issues" upstream.)  Maybe it's just that I've been spoiled with that awesome sound stage in front of me produced by speakers, but even if these $2000 cans could approach them with even more money, damn...you're talking the same price (most likely way more) as a formidable Magnepan 1.7 system (among many other options). 

 

Sure, I know I'll get the arguments about not giving it time to break in, or the Lyr isn't a good match.  C'mon people!  The technology in this hobby (speaker or can) is nothing new...not by a long shot.  There is a certain placebo effect that no one likes to talk about.  We start on the less expensive stuff, just getting into things...move to bigger and bigger ($$$ and $$$$$$$) and we say it sounds better, because it damn well better considering what we just shelled out for it.  Well, I will say the $75,000 Magico system I heard was the best I've ever experienced in audio (that's just an insane amount of money, and not even half of what bigger systems go for).  But after hearing top-of-the-line cans vs. the $500 paradigms or $2200 Maggie 1.7's, no amount of money will bring these LCD's (or any headphone) to the level of audio that even a decent near-field system can yield--at least not for me.  Even my old Audioengine A5's kill them. 

 

Obviously this is my opinion, and I'm sure it isn't a popular one on these boards (no one likes a newbie talking schiit), but I'm just giving my honest opinion.  I could spend a year with these guys, but they'll never be speakers...not even close (nothing changes that much with break in).  I'm just a little shocked at how far off they really are, considering the cost.

 

Sorry, but the Lyr doesn't satisfy what the LCD-3s need. I owned that very combination and we far from impressed with the Lyr. It worked quite well with the LCD-2s, but really left me wanting more for the LCD-3s (compared to the WA22 that I had on hand at the same time). Sorry, but I don't understand why people would buy top flight cans like the LCD-3s and HD800s and then not worry about upstream gear? Then they post, I don't hear what all the fuss is about. Don't blame transparent headphones like these for showing you what issues you have upstream. While you might have got away with it with say mid-fi headphones, the same rules don't apply here. So before one make bold assertions, I'd strongly recommend you get out there to a meet and listen to other gear....the experiences may surprise you. smile.gif


Edited by MacedonianHero - 3/2/13 at 7:23am
post #568 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

Sorry, but the Lyr doesn't satisfy what the LCD-3s need. I owned that very combination and we far from impressed with the Lyr. It worked quite well with the LCD-2s, but really left me wanting more for the LCD-3s (compared to the WA22 that I had on hand at the same time). Sorry, but I don't understand why people would buy top flight cans like the LCD-3s and HD800s and then not worry about upstream gear? Then they post, I don't hear what all the fuss is about. Don't blame transparent headphones like these for showing you what issues you have upstream. While you might have got away with it with say mid-fi headphones, the same rules don't apply here. So before one make bold assertions, I'd strongly recommend you get out there to a meet and listen to other gear....the experiences may surprise you. smile.gif

 

+1


Edited by nigeljames - 3/2/13 at 7:35am
post #569 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by takezo View Post




shostakovich, stravinsky, brahms and mahler has never sounded as amazing as on the lcd3

+1
post #570 of 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

Well, in the headphone world, most consider the source and amp more important than the headphone itself, meaning it's better to drive a lesser headphone to it's max potential, than to under drive summit-fi cans. You seriously got the balance wrong on this one, didn't give it a proper go. But speakers is a whole different beast, thought it really is comparing apples to oranges.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

Sorry, but the Lyr doesn't satisfy what the LCD-3s need. I owned that very combination and we far from impressed with the Lyr. It worked quite well with the LCD-2s, but really left me wanting more for the LCD-3s (compared to the WA22 that I had on hand at the same time). Sorry, but I don't understand why people would buy top flight cans like the LCD-3s and HD800s and then not worry about upstream gear? Then they post, I don't hear what all the fuss is about. Don't blame transparent headphones like these for showing you what issues you have upstream. While you might have got away with it with say mid-fi headphones, the same rules don't apply here. So before one make bold assertions, I'd strongly recommend you get out there to a meet and listen to other gear....the experiences may surprise you. smile.gif


+1 Well said!

 

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Although I don't have my LCD3 yet, I do still have my LCD2.2 and HD800. I can confirm that your upstream gear is FAR more important in headphone audio than it is with 2 channel speaker systems. I just upgraded my HA160/Bifrost combo to a Soloist/M51 combo and the difference was jaw dropping to say the least. I've owned many great speaker systems, including top of the line Paradigm Signatures, and I would take my current headphone rig over the Paradigm's every day of the week. That's not to say that speakers don't have their own list of advantages, but in terms of pure enjoyment and quality of sound, high end headphones measure up quite nicely, imho. What I would say to the folks above who disagree with this is very simple, go try your LCD3 with some better quality upstream gear, then come back and tell us we are wrong...

 

But, again, it's apples and oranges. 


Edited by BRAC - 3/2/13 at 8:22am
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