AKG K550 vs Some others (denon d2000, akg k271, ultrasone edition 8, shure 940, shure 840, beyer... - Page 8

No, the thanks is to you- for reading it!!

 

I don't have much confidence in transporting the denon series headphones on any regular basis. I always treat them gently, as them fat earcups are held in place only by a small 5mm wide connection to the headphone frame, so i'm yet to experience an incident.

 

I've heard them grado's a few times- not that bad. These headphones were talking about here are of course in a completely different league. But if you're sticking to closed back, isolating designs, then that makes the job of finding a headphone easier. It's just narrowing down what you can look for really, as does usage from an ipod with an amp. Massive convenience +++++'s to using any headphone out of an mp3 player compared to some of these beasty rigs you see flashed around here.

Wow, Nice going!! I'm sure you won't regret it. Whatever you listen to- these will open up a new world for you.

 

It's a bit late in the uk now, so i'll try to give a full response tomorrow.

 

But just a quick thing to quickly mention. Amazon (probably) have the best consumer return policy on planet earth. If you have bought anything from amazon including third party sellers, according to the minimun 7day money back guarantee, you can get a full refund for literally anything (except opened software/ cd's). Definitely this includes headphones. It says on the box that the dt770 sounds good. It doesn't. You got the item not as described/ not satisfactory performance. You will get a full refund. 

This is what makes up for not having a place to audition stuff before you buy it and that's the only reason why I mention it. The uk is horrible in the regard of headphone auditioning- there is virtualy nowhere (just beats/bose) so i've kind of had to buy most of mine!!

 

It's very easy for me to tell you the only thing similar between all headphones that generate controversy. They are headphones!!! 

Anything ranging from $0.01 and above causes debate. That's what makes it interesting!

 

cheers and thanks again. You're very well mannered and that can only be appreciated

Been travelling today, so i'll give an indepth answer tomorrow morning if thats okay!

Yea, this forum has quite a high percentage of young users. Beats, skullcandy and ipods obviously have an appeal to kids, so I think the moderators press that we all use softer language- makes sense!

Actually that's an important point in itself. Clearly these 'kids' (hopefully!) haven't got the resources to get their fingers on the £££££ stax sr009 and play with high $$$$$$ end huge dacs and amps, soldering and swapping capacitors and what not..... BUT there's plenty, plenty, for them to get stuck into in this hobby.

You may see often the 'welcome to headfi, sorry for your wallet' introduction that experienced members give to newbies. That never means that one has to spend loads of money to get a awesome sounding setup. It only ever refers to the fact that this stuff is an ADDICTION. You just itch to hear what this headphone, that headphone, this amp, that dac sound like and have fun comparing them, collecting and selling equipment whilst all at the same time enojoying music more and more. That's where your wallet suffers- it's the addiction.

 

The reason why i mentioned the cost of my other headphones near me and the cost of the k550 was only to demonstrate that fact- the price tag isn't resemblant of sq. There's a point where you reach called the infamous diminishing returns point. For most headfiers, with the most recommended of the current crop of stuff, this is about £200 for amp/ dac/ headphone/ iem and after this point to reach a better sound you have to pay a lot lot more for a real improvement if there is one available! It always feels like you've paid much much more for the sq than is deserved unless you've got literally £1,000's cash lying around doing nothing. I always advise all newer members to approach them prices only if they know what they are doing or have a bottomless pit of cash. I guess the market of open headphones is more linear than closed. I mean say if you a high performing midrange amp/dac and have one of the ~£250 hd650, hd600, q701, ad900....Nearly all headfiers would agree that these are outperformed sonically by the ~£900 Beyer T1, Audeze lcd2, hifiman he5 le, senn hd800.... 

Move onto closed phones, and it's not quite the same story. In my view there's been general lack in quality, maybe from a lack of demand i don't know. £200 shure 940's outperform £800 T5p's for me. I regret not having much time with the £400 denon d5k as i'm quite sure these i'd find outperforming the £600 d7k's. The d7k's high mid/high has quite a nasty sharp agressive and thin tinge to it AND it's midrange is a touch more recessed than the d5k which didn't have near as much of a problem in the high range. d7k easily beats the d5k in the bass range though, but because of these highs which become really fatiguing fast for me, I'd recommend the d5k over the d7k. Both have the same amping requirements by the way (very very little by the way!!). The ed8 emits a sound nowhere near the price mark. No way. Hence some of the biggest contributers/ administrators on headfi call this a shiny upgrade to a beats by dre headphone- $300 dollar sound dressed in a $1000 outfit. Stuff like the k550, denon d2k, shure 840, ultrasone pro 900 hit the mark of a great purchase value wise if you like what sound they are able to give you. 

 

Another point about cost. Compared to many other addictions/hobbies, it's not expensive at all. Smoking, resturant dining (fear of home cooking), clothes fashion, latest pc's, cars, and many more all involve spending chunks of money on stuff that has very little resale value if at all. Virtually all that's audiophile stamped has a high to very high (often even in the regions of making a profit) resale value. There's all the time headfi stuff of all prices going on ebay. Of course headfi has it's own very well managed selling/buying facility. Only the nich within a nich market of custom iem earphones have a notorious problem in this regard. Understandable.

 

1) plastic: don't worry about materials that much. Shure 840's are made of what feels like nasty plastic and cheap pleather pads. Like a £20 pound build. A few ultrasone cans come across in the same manner- as these are designed to fit in a studio with the look. Wooden ones like the denons or audio technicas are meant for home use really and so their design hints at that. Obviously wood is meant to have better acoustic properties than quite a few other materials so this is the main reason they use it. Looks really come second. Mind you the ed8, k550 and d7k are all EXCEEDINGLY pretty as far as headphones go. Kind of take it for granted after a while, but the k550 really looks awesome, is built of awesome materials and impresses on that front.

 

 

2) Value and diminishing returns: i've talked about this in the beginning.

 

 

3) Meets and demoing. Some very experienced headfiers prefer to spend money going to meets rather than to buy headphones. They must be really good, although I haven't been to any yet. Yea, i take it that you're in the usa in which case there is a lot more opportunity for you to audition stuff than me. I think places like japan have some awesome places to audtion stuff- Hi end audiophile stuff. But for everyone else, especially in the uk and smaller countries, there's little out there. Wait wait, i don't really expect there to be much anyway- it's a very nich hobby this is. Excluding people who just spend big on anything as the've got the money to and only including those that are active audiophiles, just give it some thought and research and you'll find that it's a very nich market hobby.

 

4) Recabling: unless this is part of the fun one derives from this hobby, then I'd say there's no point to recable in most situations. If your talking about plugging a headphone in a £20,000 setup of a cd player, cables, dac, amp and what not, then it's just natural that one would want to recable!! But the cable on the k550 is a lovely, lightish, flexible, convenient, not tangle prone,.....Why would one want to recable it? Improvement in sound?? I've used (not expensive) audiophile cables for some headphones that had a removable cable feature. I didn't notice anything much really.

 

 

5) Portable Amp/dac

IMPORTANT

I think you've fallen in an uncovered pit that unfortunately happens to a few newbies. Okay, let me explain.

It's exceedingly important to note the specific headfi market that your delving in with each purchase. It comes naturally after time and experience, but at first it can be confusing. Some things RAPIDLY develop with time. Others dont.

Full size headphones of the past, lets say of 10, 20 or even 30 years in the past stand up well to the headphones of today. Technology of headphones (full size) hasn't really travelled that far. AKG's current best open headphone that they sell first popped its head out 20 years ago (or more I think). The k271 came around a similar time. Senn hd600/hd650 have also been around for ages. Some say the best ever produced headphone was the sony mdr r10 or the akg k1000 or the senn he90 or a similar completely extinct headphone. There are new ones being produced that stand toe to toe with headphones of the past, but that's exactly my point.

 

With portable amps, what's made now smashes what was made in the past. It's moreso the case with earphones. Also to some extent with portable headphones. In all three catergories recent years have seen a continual increase in demand hence a continual increase in the levels of quality available at better and better prices.   

headfier Skylab used to have a comparison thread on different portable amplifiers but scrapped it as the amount of development made such a thread with ratings quite redundant. When you're looking at these threads the first thing to look at is the date they were posted. Are people still raving about the amp/headphone, is it still in production? If not, move to something else.

 

My view- stick with the fiio's for now. Tried and tested by the thousands. I saw a unit today at a major high street retailer (maplins, fiio e5). That is a remarkable testiment to the durability of their products. They sell in the hundreds of thousands. Don't worry about Q/C- they're fine in that regard. These are awesome performers. If you want just a portable amp to use from the computer or your ipod, then the fiio e11 (£60) is great. If you want a complete dac/amp mini setup to use with your computer only then the fiio e10 (£60) is a killer performer. If you want the best of both- so in effect both these fiio's functionalities in one small unit, with improvements, then the £100 fiio e17 would be ideal.

There's no point in spending much more to tell the truth with very portable setups like these- i've tried the udac's one ray samuels amp (predator i think) and an ibasso d4. The fiio's outshine them all in many ways.

 

A desktop dac/ amp setup is the way to go in general if you want sound quality.

 

 

6) Fun? What else is the point....

Fair enough. I know what you mean. All newbies have to ask themselves what they want from palces like headfi.

Person 1

 I just want a headphone that sounds decent for everyday ipod/mac casual listening. I haven't that much time, money and interest dedicated for this hobby.

If so then someone is likely to be satisfied by say an ath m50 (for closed headphone listening) or say an ath ad700, senn hd598 and a small amp/dac to go with it (a fiio will do perfectly). That's it. Great sq, little time wasted, and all for around £200. 100% satisfied. Now when's the ipad 3 coming out. I need, yes need one of these to help me survive.  

 

Person 2

After hearing some decent headphones, I want to know of and reach the best SQ setup I can get. Yea, I've a budget but I want the best for this budget and maybe upgrade when I know more.  

Fasten your seatbelt my friend, cos you may be in for a ride here. This is the classic audiophile (disease?) taking over. I expect such a person to go through multiple headphone setups and learn more and more with experience. There has never really been a single headphone that is awesome for all genres of music- hence people have multiple setups.

 

 

7) errrr, Mathematics?

I'm not from a scientific background myself. I'm from a purely mathematical one!! I don't really like studying science too much, a bit boring with far too many generalisations. Okay, as this isn't a particularly active thread, no one will mind if we go off topic here.

 

As you must know, pure mathematics forms the complete centre of science. No arguing. It is. Nice.

It's the heart of science. Lets just consider two arms if you like that it develops into- physics and statistics. Again, as you know physicists and engineers are awesomely notorious for ignoring a plethora of variables, accuracy and what not in their theories and calculations- as it's deemed irrelavant and would make the system unnecessarily complicated. That's fair. But when you're talking about headphones and equipment like this unnearing accuracy is needed. All I see is the measurements that have been taken thus far by whoever as at best just a small sketch of the full story. The amount of variables that are not considered is just too great for THE STATISTICAN to be able to put mathematical trust in the results. The main reason for this- What is subject to all of these measurments is the literally 99% mysterious; The human sense of hearing.

 

We know very very little to be able to mathematically achieve precise statements about how a piece of electronic equipment would be percieved. It's a question of medical physics but when medical staticians look at it, they're overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the task of 'mathematicallising' it. Pure mathematicians laugh at this sort of thing and that's why they stick to their infinitely undeniably abstract analytical number theory or whatever. There aint that many pure mathematicians on planet earth. I'm not surprised as some of the topics here are unbelievably difficult. No one, perhaps apart from 1/2 people on earth touch them in 20 years. 'Errr, not interesting enough' is sometimes the excuse mathematicians like to use to cover for their disregard for such topics!!!

 

ANYWAY. To Nwavguy. I'm a fan definitely. He's a very enthusiastic and clearly very talented individual. He definitely has given audiophilia a new dimension for many out there. It was just the us to uk illegal yet legal custom/vat/this/that fees that has put me off getting the objective. I'm sure it's a great sounding amp, for little over the fiio e9's price. I think many of his 'fans' if you like have taken him out of context- he's not saying that the amp that measures the best would sound the best (I didn't get this impression). It's just that measuring well is a sign of sounding good- for amps that is.

 

I don't want to get into a deeper than on the surface level on maths anywhere near these forums. To avoid maths may be one of the reasons I come here in the first place! But there's no shying away from that now, with exams approaching. So I probably won't be on headfi for some time....

 

 

8) final words;

 

- the search function isn't that great on headfi. advanced search is slightly better. Tip: use google to search headfi instead.

Within threads the search function is awesome though. Lets you search a 200 page thread for most likely answers to the questions you have.

 

 

- I'm sure you've been on the staple 'sticky' threads on headfi. If you've maybe missed a few here's where you can find them for headphones:

http://www.head-fi.org/f/4/headphones-full-size

 

or for earphones say:

http://www.head-fi.org/f/103/portable-headphones-earphones-and-in-ear-monitors

 

Jokers threads are absolutely legendary, I know. The best i've ever come across by far.

 

 

- Hope that helps. Good luck and I'm sure you'll like your k550.

 

 

Again, i'm sorry, but i probably will be away from headfi for some time. Believe me there are plenty, plenty of far more knowledgable and experienced headfiers than me- I haven't touched custom iems (tried to but the effort knocked me out) or open headphones or high end source components- and this is where much of the sonically leading stuff lies in!! 

 

Cheers to you to!

It's been a pleasure to share a few of my experiences with you. You'll definitely pick this stuff up super fast, you're right!

Again, i appreciate greatly your kind words. So thanks and good luck (not that you'll need it)