Originally Posted by jcx
does this thread have a history?
Ah well, I'm not sure I will find the time and energy to conduct another pointless thread here on head-fi but I can show you quite a lot of threads that got closed due to opamps measurements threadcrapping:
Always the same story, the Benchmark DAC-1 measures amazingly well gnagnana..
The OP asks a simple question, and his thread gets trolled for almost 10 pages by (biased) measurements objectivists and eventually gets closed.
And there's more, believe me.
Why did I say "pointless debate"? coz it always boils down to ppl who haven't done their homework, talk about gear they haven't heard and act as self-proclaimed experts.
Originally Posted by nick_charles
if the audible differences between similarly measuring components are really **so obvious** why not share the results of some properly proctored DBTs with us ?
The feedback mechanism that is built into opamps renders their measurements meaningless, so tell me...if we can't trust measurements, what else can we trust apart from our good ole ears? Have you ever heard a high end discrete DAC? Did it sound the same as a PCM1793/NE5532 combo to your ears?
You're a notorious myth debunker(your cable shoot-out was quite something), how about going to a head-fi meeting and come back telling us that all DAC's sound the same? For what we know, they all measure "beyond audibility"...or so I read anyway.
Originally Posted by mikeaj
I don't see how feedback "falsifies measurements" if that's how the circuit's been designed? What's being implied is that the op amps don't measure that well without feedback, and therefore with feedback they sound bad?
Feedback is cheating, plain and simple. Their measurements neither mean or prove anything.
But now that you mention it, many ppl claim that it sounds bad too: http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/projects/
"It has zero global feedback for open, natural sound without any harshness"
So feedback fasifies measurements and sounds shrill, goodness gracious!
Originally Posted by SanjiWatsuki
You're right, though, I don't go out DIY op amp rolling.
So I'm telling you that opamps measurements don't mean jack, that these 3 opamps sound drastically different. You tell me that the measurements prove that they all sound the same, and yet you haven't heard any of them...how is that useful to anything? Let me repeat it for you once more, because maybe I didn't make myself clear from the get go: "Feedback circuits were invented because of their ability to correct for everything – by this it is easy to achieve 0.0005% THD figures". They will always all measure the same, OTOH it's quite astounding to read ppl saying "hey fellas, I've measured a lot of opamps and they all measured the same, and they all sounded the same to me too!!! placebo!! snake oil!! attack!!!". If OPA1641 and OPA602 sound the same to you, I would also advise to switch hobbies....you're wasting your time.