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FiiO E17 "ALPEN" - First Impression + Final Thought - Page 402

post #6016 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfwalcer View Post


Oh. frown.gif

 

Guess those $3 OTG cables won't cut it then. haha Thanks Panda we meet again. cool.gif This time you won. :)

I thought you came here to troll at first...but then I realized you had a real question.

 

The only specifics I know about this is from what James of FiiO has told us on this site. I'm not a product creator or anything so I wouldn't know but I have yet to hear anyone say otherwise.

 

But Apple has this MiFi program

https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

 

You know those 'real' devices you see by Belkin, Bower and Wilkins that has the logo that tells you its legit and what not? Those are there for a purpose. For the most part, because the 40 pin dock is Apple's own proprietary setup, they can choose what to do with it. So these 'lisences' allow them to make the dock

 

Most things are VERY simple so fakes come out easilly. Any fake dock is just a matter of copying it.

 

However for our case, it won't be easy because one needs to bypass the DAC. From what I've heard, there is a special 'code' needed that you have to get from Apple which allows access to the actual internals of the iPod to allow you to bypass it.

 

This is a big reason for why the only devices that can bypass Apple DAC are $500+ dollars. Because it cost them a lot of money and time and effort to get the program lisencing from Apple.

 

How do I know this part is true? I don't. But think about it this way. Audiophilia is HUGE in China. If there is no other product from China that can bypass an Apple devices DAC at the cost of $20 or something(if it was really that simple right?) then we can be pretty sure that this 'code' and everything about how one can go to access an iPod/iPhone's DAC is hella hard. Because if China audiophiles haven't done it in a decade for cheap cheap cost. Then what I've heard is probably true

 

One way people bypassed this constraint was through the 40 pin dock iPad variants and using the Camera Connection Kit. Because you see(lightbulb in brain lights up), if one can't get a device to bypass the DAC made by an external company. Why not use Apple's own CCK adapter to be the one that DOES the bypassing first!(ding ding ding)

 

So yes, iPad(with 40 pin dock) users with CCK can use an external DAC of their choice as the CCK(only real Apple versions) does the heavy lifting for them. And boom. Most users have to use a DAC that has low power draw though as the CCK has a limitation. BUT another user in this thread was able to use another small hack to make it so that you can use any DAC you want regardless of power draw through some nifty engineering and understanding of how USB hosts and all that jumbo works. 

 

Why type all this? I have a mechanical keyboard, and I love to hear the sound and feel of me typing long stuff. It feels absolutely boss, and it helps keep me sharp and what not. My gosh its so tactile and amazing. Every single time I type. Just say8ing

post #6017 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfwalcer View Post

Quote: Originally Posted by bowei006  No. The only way to bypass the DAC of Apple devices is with the $500+ CLAS, HPP1, Vmoda Verza, Sony blah blah etc etc   Why? These companies paid apple a LOT of money to get the lisence to allow for them to get the 'code' to bypass the iPod's own DAC. You need a special device for this. Oh.   Guess those $3 OTG cables won't cut it then. haha Thanks Panda we meet again. This time you won. smily_headphones1.gif
Owned by the Panda Sama meng... eek.gif
Lovin it! All is good! biggrin.gif

He's hung my noob butt a few times as well!

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2
post #6018 of 6590

^ iTroll???

............. so that's how you see me, i see. frown.gif

 

Now where can i get my dirty lil' hands on them magical "Camera Connection Kit" CCK adapters??? Seems to be DIY stuff and not sold anywhere??? But am very much interested in getting one though.

 

 

Mechanical keyboard shhhhsmeboard more like this to be accurate.....

.... about them fruit products cuz i is a BIG PANDA FAN BOI!!! bigsmile_face.gif

 

But seriously though thanks for the insights, now i despise The Fruit Company even more. haha

 

 

700... you're Vegeta why of course.

 

WAIT i know it's hard to do for apple products but can this be done for smartphones cuz most have really crappy dacs, so is there a way to bypass the amp/dac of your smartphone and use the dac/amp of the E17 via the micro USB OTG connection???

 

Edit: not quite TrollDragon, not quite.....

post #6019 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfwalcer View Post

^ iTroll???

............. so that's how you see me, i see. frown.gif

 

Now where can i get my dirty lil' hands on them magical "Camera Connection Kit" CCK adapters??? Seems to be DIY stuff and not sold anywhere??? But am very much interested in getting one though.

 

 

Mechanical keyboard shhhhsmeboard more like this to be accurate.....

t products cuz i is a BIG PANDA FAN BOI!!! bigsmile_face.gif

 

But seriously though thanks for the insights, now i despise The Fruit Company even more. haha

 

 

you're Vegeta why of course.

 

WAIT i know it's hard to do for apple products but can this be done for smartphones cuz most have really crappy dacs, so is there a way to bypass the amp/dac of your smartphone and use the dac/amp of the E17 via the micro USB OTG connection???

 

Edit: not quite TrollDragon, not quite.....

Well, your custom tag doesn't say otherwise.

 

If you have an iPad with 40 pin dock, you can buy it from Apple.

post #6020 of 6590

Apples ridiculously expensive licensing is just one more reason the newer Android phones are the way to go. The E17 is simply plug and play with the Samsung Galaxy S4. You can use the E17 with an OTG cable to get digital audio out of the S4. So for less than $150 you can do what Apple makes you pay over 3 times that to do. 

post #6021 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

Apples ridiculously expensive licensing is just one more reason the newer Android phones are the way to go. The E17 is simply plug and play with the Samsung Galaxy S4. You can use the E17 with an OTG cable to get digital audio out of the S4. So for less than $150 you can do what Apple makes you pay over 3 times that to do. 

Apple isn't forcing anyone to get digital audio out. It's a feature they never intended would be used in such a way we are using it. 

 

And this will be my final post on this subject of Apple and Android.

 

Why can't people stop circle jerking on Android fanboy and Apple fanboy or I hate this and I hate that and realize that nobody cares. You use and buy the phone that suits your needs best.

 

I mean, do people  that like meat and want touchscreen capabilites on their fridge go out and buy a Kitchenaid fridge with those capabilities and then start posting everywhere online about how the Fridgeaire Fridge that handles vegetables better and doesn't use touchscreen as its control is absolutely crap? No. Because they bought the thing that fits their life better. 

 

If people want X, they buy X. If they want Y, they buy Y. One doesn't need to buy Y, which fits their life the way they want, and then go and post about how X sucks to people without even knowing what they want. 

post #6022 of 6590

I know that nobody is being forced to, but people are here asking about digital out. I also think it's great that it's a feature that Android and the phone makers are willing to support without making people pay for licensing fees. That is what my point is. 

 

I'm also not an Android fanboy. My last phone was an iPhone 4 and I kept it for 2 whole years and I never really had any serious issues with it. I'm not trying to start any fanboy arguements, I'm just stating the facts. I never said Apple sucks by the way. They do make great products, they are just a bit to closed off and restrictive for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Apple isn't forcing anyone to get digital audio out. It's a feature they never intended would be used in such a way we are using it. 

 

And this will be my final post on this subject of Apple and Android.

 

Why can't people stop circle jerking on Android fanboy and Apple fanboy or I hate this and I hate that and realize that nobody cares. You use and buy the phone that suits your needs best.

 

I mean, do people  that like meat and want touchscreen capabilites on their fridge go out and buy a Kitchenaid fridge with those capabilities and then start posting everywhere online about how the Fridgeaire Fridge that handles vegetables better and doesn't use touchscreen as its control is absolutely crap? No. Because they bought the thing that fits their life better. 

 

If people want X, they buy X. If they want Y, they buy Y. One doesn't need to buy Y, which fits their life the way they want, and then go and post about how X sucks to people without even knowing what they want. 

post #6023 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Well, your custom tag doesn't say otherwise.

 

If you have an iPad with 40 pin dock, you can buy it from Apple.

iWear it tall and proud!!! tongue.gif  I literally got a license to troll. HE HE HE

 

Hold up i am not well versed in all this apple talk, isn't that 40 pin dock/ connector standard on ALL iDevices like the older iPhones/ iPods; the wider/ fatter connector not the new lightening cable, no.

 

Not sure what you mean by "40 pin dock" tbh and only the iPad has it???

 

Can you post some pics/ links???

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

Apples ridiculously expensive licensing is just one more reason the newer Android phones are the way to go. The E17 is simply plug and play with the Samsung Galaxy S4. You can use the E17 with an OTG cable to get digital audio out of the S4. So for less than $150 you can do what Apple makes you pay over 3 times that to do. 

You seems to know more about smartphones than our Panda friend here, so when you use an OTG cable with your S4 connected to the E17 are you bypassing the S4s amp as well as the dac on your smart phone or just the amp??? The WHOLE reason i am asking is that i want to use the dac as well as the amp of the E17 using my iPods and my Nokia N9. I am just confused if the dac of the E17 is utilized in your OTG configuration that is all.

 

Thanks everyone for your inputs so far!!! beerchug.gif


Edited by sfwalcer - 7/28/13 at 7:04pm
post #6024 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfwalcer View Post

iWear it tall and proud!!! tongue.gif  I literally got a license to troll. HE HE HE

 

Hold up i am not well versed in all this apple talk, isn't that 40 pin dock/ connector standard on ALL iDevices like the older iPhones/ iPods; the wider/ fatter connector not the new lightening cable, no.

 

Not sure what you mean by "40 pin dock" tbh and only the iPad has it???

 

Can you post some pics/ links???

 

 

You seems to know more about smartphones than our Panda friend here, so when you use an OTG cable with your S4 connected to the E17 are you bypassing the S4s amp as well as the dac on your smart phone or just the amp??? The WHOLE reason i am asking is that i want to use the dac as well as the amp of the E17 using my iPods and my Nokia N9. I am just confused if the dac of the E17 is utilized in your OTG configuration that is all.

 

Thanks everyone for your inputs so far!!! beerchug.gif

Only the iPad works with the CCK. New apple devices don't use the 40 pin dock.

 

He is bypassing amp and DAC.

post #6025 of 6590

Yes. USB-OTG to the E17 from the S4 is bypassing the phones amp and DAC. The S4 will be sending a digital signal to the E17 through the OTG cable. So the E17 becomes the DAC and the amp, just like when you would use the E17 with the USB port of a laptop. So the phone will just be a transport, just like when you use an Apple product with a Clas or Venturecraft or other Apple licensed DAC. The only difference here is that Android doesn't require amp/DAC manufacturers to pay crazy fees to allow their products to work with Android phones or tablets. This is a perfect example of open source vs strict proprietary products. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfwalcer View Post

You seems to know more about smartphones than our Panda friend here, so when you use an OTG cable with your S4 connected to the E17 are you bypassing the S4s amp as well as the dac on your smart phone or just the amp??? The WHOLE reason i am asking is that i want to use the dac as well as the amp of the E17 using my iPods and my Nokia N9. I am just confused if the dac of the E17 is utilized in your OTG configuration that is all.

 

Thanks everyone for your inputs so far!!! beerchug.gif


Edited by jasonb - 7/28/13 at 7:24pm
post #6026 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Only the iPad works with the CCK. New apple devices don't use the 40 pin dock.

 

He is bypassing amp and DAC.


Oh.

 

That's even more interesting cuz i assume that the ipad and ipods has the exact same connector/ cable so..... i guess like all apple stuff it works in mysterious ways. haha rolleyes.gif j/k not trying to have any stupid android/ apple fan boi wars cuz i don't like them both so take it easy Panda man, don't lose your cool. cool.gif

 

Nice glad OTG works that way, might need of them fancy $3 cables. LoL

 

Thanks ya'll. Think all my questions has been answered. A happy troll here. :)

 

Edit: Thanks Jasonb!!! beerchug.gif iGot it now.


Edited by sfwalcer - 7/28/13 at 7:16pm
post #6027 of 6590

I will add though that not every DAC will work with every Android device, not even all newer Android devices. For example, the E17 works with the S4, but it has been reported that the E7 does not. It's also been reported that the E7 works with the older S3, but the E17 does not. Same with the newer HTC, Sony, and LG Android phones, not every current Android is compatible with every DAC. So it seems to be a bit hit and miss unfortunately.... See, I'm not a total Android fanboy, I'm just calling it as it is. 

post #6028 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

I will add though that not every DAC will work with every Android device, not even all newer Android devices. For example, the E17 works with the S4, but it has been reported that the E7 does not. It's also been reported that the E7 works with the older S3, but the E17 does not. Same with the newer HTC, Sony, and LG Android phones, not every current Android is compatible with every DAC. So it seems to be a bit hit and miss unfortunately.... See, I'm not a total Android fanboy, I'm just calling it as it is. 

 

Yeah i am kinda aware of what you just stated, i doubt my Nokia N9 works since it uses meego OS that NO ONE supports. haha I love the sound out of it anyways since its internal dac is muchhh better than my 6th gen classic, 4th gen nano, and my Sana Clip+, but it's just not loud/ powerful enough to drive some of my gears, so will be just use an amp with them. Just wanted to know how all these amp/dac stuff works that is all. I got it now. 

post #6029 of 6590
Wow it just got a little crazy up in here.
post #6030 of 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

I will add though that not every DAC will work with every Android device, not even all newer Android devices. For example, the E17 works with the S4, but it has been reported that the E7 does not. It's also been reported that the E7 works with the older S3, but the E17 does not. Same with the newer HTC, Sony, and LG Android phones, not every current Android is compatible with every DAC. So it seems to be a bit hit and miss unfortunately.... See, I'm not a total Android fanboy, I'm just calling it as it is. 

James Fiio said in the Fiio E18 thread that apparently E17 works on 4.2.x (therefore Galaxy S4), and E07K on 4.1.x (SIII, Note II, and others). Basically, don't update if you have the second one...

In my case with the E07K, it works in my Note, but not in my Nexus 10 (4.2.1), so it follows the rule pretty well. It might be DAC related.

I'm curious to see what happens with 4.3.
Edited by Ashade - 7/28/13 at 11:32pm
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