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FiiO E17 "ALPEN" - First Impression + Final Thought - Page 340

post #5086 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Their studio cans in my opinion sound better than their consumer ones.

 

Monitoring? They aren't that good for sound producers but artists?They do well.

 

The only $1000 headphones are  the HD 700/HD800 and Audeze and Fostex's and a few others.I have never seen one in an engineers lab.

 

I Admit I'm a pariah not liking the DT770s, I've had several pair break on me and durability is a must for me.  Have you listened to the T50P lightweight appx $250, blows away the DT770 IMHO, and I love the T1.  I just base my statements on what I have heard in my ears.  Seems likes most good studio cans these days are reaching for the magic $1000 as they realize consumers are paying that so why not engineers.  Anyway, this is getting silly, I'm just comparing three cans that I have heard and telling you I like Bery's consumers better.  But that wasn't what my reply was about and you've set up a straw man argument.  No the T1S i think are still a hidden gem for engineering, for whom headphones aren't the biggest priority. Berys most used in the studio cans are the 770s, you win that argument that I wasn't arguing, yes more engineers use the 770s.   

 

What I wanted to point  out was that you were generalizing greatly about studio cans.  You said any headphone priced between (150-300$???) is a studio can and I want to point out its more nuanced.  There are the cans for musicians, and engineering cans.  Engineering cans have been widely available at over $500 for many years and are creeping up. 

 

Can't we all get along man?  I work with a dude who sells hundreds of headphones on his amazon store and I help him process the DT770 RMAs once a week he gets so many.  And he let me listen to the T1 and T50p and I'm blown away by berydynamics consumer line and wanted people to know.  

 

Thats what I wanted to do, not get in a pissing match.  Can we call it good man?  Try something different and check out some of the mid to high range berydynamic consumers if you get the chance.  

 

Sorry for my mass mis spellings. 

post #5087 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloaugustus View Post

I know I'm new here I too am searching for an "obvious" answer not included in the manual. This device and entire class of devices is very mysterious to some of us
who may be quite expert in audio or computers but these little amps with built in DACs are slightly confusing as to who and what they are for and what the signal chain is for.\

It would not be unreasonable to think that the DAC may be included in the signal chain to the output through the amp, let me plug in a SPDIF source (you don't have spdif output on your nextgen android straight from japan?) and process the signal with the DAC before being amplified.

Your answer makes it seem like a stupid question, but I don't think it is.  

Stupid question on my part:
If you are a record producer, then why would you want to listen to music wwith a massive bass boost?
Wouldn't you want something flat, accurate so you can hear what is on the recording?

This line of questioning honestly baffles me.redface.gif
post #5088 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


Sorry man, but I can't quite figure out if you are trolling?
Long story, short version, if you have low impedance cans they may need more current than the source you are currently using can provide.
I use an amp with my HP notebook because the headphone jack on the HP sounds terrible, terrible, terrible. Muddy, foggy, veiled, doesn't output a lot of power either.
Plugging my E17 into the USB port on the HP notebook sounds better in every possible way.
I can reasonably assume that the E17 has a better DAC and better sounding headphone amp than the HP notebook.
YMMV
And that's the short version.

 

Nah I'm not trolling and it appears you didn't even understand my question.  I understand the whole DAC thing, which just seems silly because you get a  nice sound card or a USB audio interface and there you go.  But some people just listen, hence the dedicated DAC.

 

My question is why amplify something that doesn't require amplification.  i.e. is it like car stereo where its best to overload with amps and keep the dial down, in otherwords have more power than you need. 

 

Using my AT770pros and the E17 I'm having mixed results...Reference tracks could be any bass music, I'm digging Lil Boosie, REturn of super bad azz, track 2.  I get a buziness in a certain spectrum of the bass end.

 

Using PowerAmp on my android razor M I can get better sound quality dialed in.  Still working on it....I understand these cans need time to break in.  

 

But right now I get better sound going from the Razor to the AT770s. 

 

I'll keep searching for setting that work and see if I can fall in love with this Fiio.  Since I'm making yet anothing post annnoying people apparently, seeing as I'm using this setup portable can the short 3.5mmcable connecting device to FiiO be replaced. It seems to have difference resistance than average headphone cable.   I just wanna be able to answer my phone without throwing all this stuff on the ground.

 

me a troll?  You gotta understand you bassheads are crazy...regular people don't get this stuff...even tech people, you people have the collective knowledge of a PHD Electrical Engineer (none of that english or ethics though...lol)

 

.I just ran into it and am trying to see how I as a lifelong musician and compotser these issues can be of aid to me.  I try to play my music on all platforms...I subbed out my truck and now I want to test mixes with a basshead rig.  

 

I'm just trying to learn man.  I haven't started new threads, trying to feel the vibe, which seems a little elitest (you guys know a LOT about a speciazlied field, props for that, so many of you are elite) and I was hoping would be more welcoming.  

 

The best way to end this is just to say

 

I love Music.

 

And I was hoping to connect with people of the same mind.

post #5089 of 6536
There is nothing wrong with your comments. Just personal opinion. It is a bit redundant to post it here though. It is kinda like you are saying that you like Toyota because they are reliable and Fords as they have power.
Just general statements. A lot of people like the cans you mentioned. This is mainly an appreciation and or question thread.
post #5090 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

There is nothing wrong with your comments. Just personal opinion. It is a bit redundant to post it here though. It is kinda like you are saying that you like Toyota because they are reliable and Fords as they have power.
Just general statements. A lot of people like the cans you mentioned. This is mainly an appreciation and or question thread.

 

Thanks for backing me up and clarifying. I'm not dissing DT770s.


I was asking questions about the purpose of amplifying signals that have low Ohm rating. 

It is perfectly applicable to the subject. 

 

I'm still not clear....because I can so far still get better sound w/out amp with AT-770s so I thought maybe someone would have some suggestions for settings but I have learned about break in period applied to headphones too as well as monitors and truck speakers.

 

What I was trying to say to you is that studio engineers are looking to audiophile cans as they push the technical envelope and we have the same studio cans we have had for a while.  So the line is bluring....like many people commented on the "audiophile" headphone by saying it makes a bad mix stand out.  

 

THAT is why engineers are open to these higher end headphones.  No you don't see them in a lot of studios.  But I want I rack in mine. 

A rack of closed back and a rack of open for myself. 

 

I still have my question....How come POwerAmp and a razor/M give me better sound than the E17 pair.  Its break in for sure but if someone has setting that work well for them let me know.

 

So I'm asking, I'm appreciating. 

 

Can I ask another question?

 

How does an amp like the E17 compare to a desktop unit like the Prosonus HP-4 4 channel mic amp about $130.  If thats off topic forget it I'm sorry.

 

I've come into this thread with facts and opinions based on facts, but mostly questions, I don't get the negative response. 

 

I search hard before I post anything. 

 

Thanks for your help,

post #5091 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Stupid question on my part:
If you are a record producer, then why would you want to listen to music wwith a massive bass boost?
Wouldn't you want something flat, accurate so you can hear what is on the recording?
This line of questioning honestly baffles me.redface.gif
Why not? Producers can have their off time too. And not to mention nowadays we can almost assume the general population uses more bass heavy stuff anyway, so having recordings that sound good on bass boosted headphones sounds like a decent idea? You gotta see if from the average consumer standpoint sometimes.

@pablo:
Sorry if I mistaken the terms, since I read them a few days ago so they're not fresh in my mind. A portable amp like the E17 is, generally speaking, directed to consumers with portable needs and may not have mixers at home. If you have a mixer, depending on the model an all you can achieve much better EQing also (with prior knowledge on how they work) but most of us don't have one of those xP
As far as the amping section goes, I don't know much of the technical jargon here either but there are different sound hues and cues in each amp model. In a sense this can be the reason anyone can use any amp on very low impedance headphones.
Not sure if this answers a bit of your questions, though in the end the amp in question will still depend on your present gears, pairing to some degrees, and your preference in sound biggrin.gif
post #5092 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabloaugustus View Post

 

Nah I'm not trolling and it appears you didn't even understand my question.  I understand the whole DAC thing, which just seems silly because you get a  nice sound card or a USB audio interface and there you go.  But some people just listen, hence the dedicated DAC.

 

My question is why amplify something that doesn't require amplification.  i.e. is it like car stereo where its best to overload with amps and keep the dial down, in otherwords have more power than you need. 

 

Using my AT770pros and the E17 I'm having mixed results...Reference tracks could be any bass music, I'm digging Lil Boosie, REturn of super bad azz, track 2.  I get a buziness in a certain spectrum of the bass end.

 

Using PowerAmp on my android razor M I can get better sound quality dialed in.  Still working on it....I understand these cans need time to break in.  

 

But right now I get better sound going from the Razor to the AT770s. 

 

I'll keep searching for setting that work and see if I can fall in love with this Fiio.  Since I'm making yet anothing post annnoying people apparently, seeing as I'm using this setup portable can the short 3.5mmcable connecting device to FiiO be replaced. It seems to have difference resistance than average headphone cable.   I just wanna be able to answer my phone without throwing all this stuff on the ground.

 

me a troll?  You gotta understand you bassheads are crazy...regular people don't get this stuff...even tech people, you people have the collective knowledge of a PHD Electrical Engineer (none of that english or ethics though...lol)

 

.I just ran into it and am trying to see how I as a lifelong musician and compotser these issues can be of aid to me.  I try to play my music on all platforms...I subbed out my truck and now I want to test mixes with a basshead rig.  

 

I'm just trying to learn man.  I haven't started new threads, trying to feel the vibe, which seems a little elitest (you guys know a LOT about a speciazlied field, props for that, so many of you are elite) and I was hoping would be more welcoming.  

 

The best way to end this is just to say

 

I love Music.

 

And I was hoping to connect with people of the same mind.

 

Fair enough.

If you say you're not trolling then OK.

Sorry if we (or I ) come across as Elitist.redface.gif

Personally I am not a basshead so the whole basshead/bass boost thing sounds very strange and foreign to me and my way of thinking. If anything I am probably a treblehead (I like Grados and Q701s)!

 

Personally, I have a little FiiO DAC because the DAC in my HP Notebook sounds like $%@!

And when I use the HP notebook at home to listen to music I use a good headphone.

I also use the FiiO E17 with my computer in my office at work.

Otter than lugging it back and worth between home and work, it may as well be a desktop DAC/amp.

But if the computers I use gave me good sound out of their headphone jacks, I wouldn't bother with an external DAC and amp.

 

Just my opinion, but when I use my iPod or iPad I use cheaper headphones and using an additional amp is a waste of time, the headphone jack is good enough, I've tried using an additional portable amp. But I can't really hear the difference when I add an additional amp to an Ipod or iPad. So I'm not really surprised that you get good results with the Razor and the AT770s. So why make it complicated? Like I said, just my opinion.

 

Keep plugging at it, I'm sure a lot of these guys are of the same mind.

If you want to start up a new thread, feel free too! 

That's what Head Fi is for!

 

And as for Head Fi having the collective knowledge of a PhD Electrical Engineer...............not even close. Unfortunately there is tons of mis-information on Head Fi. But there is also tons of useful information.  Just like the rest of the Internet. wink_face.gif

post #5093 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post


Why not? Producers can have their off time too. And not to mention nowadays we can almost assume the general population uses more bass heavy stuff anyway, so having recordings that sound good on bass boosted headphones sounds like a decent idea? You gotta see if from the average consumer standpoint sometimes.
 

 

Apologies, but I am not a basshead..........the basshead sound just isn't my thing.

What can I say?

I just don't roll that way.............confused_face.gif

post #5094 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Apologies, but I am not a basshead..........the basshead sound just isn't my thing.
What can I say?
I just don't roll that way.............confused_face.gif
Haha me neither, though I'm not a treble head either.
One makes me dizzy and the other gives me headaches :S
post #5095 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post


Haha me neither, though I'm not a treble head either.
One makes me dizzy and the other gives me headaches :S

Any midrangeheads out there? And what would too much midrange give you? wink_face.gif

 

Calling all midrangeheads................

 

Come to think of it, if you heard my speakers you might say "Are you a closet midrangehead?"

I would say, "no, I'm a flathead!"

post #5096 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuggetsPie View Post

Is it better to use 0 Gain and a high volume or 6db Gain and less volume?


Good question! I was going back and forth between 0 and 6db on both the E17 and E09K and prefer everything on 0db as it keeps the dynamic range of a recording intact, even if the bass often lacks punch. That said, I found too much DR can be a problem too. I guess it also depends on how loud a recording was mastered in the first place.

post #5097 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Any midrangeheads out there? And what would too much midrange give you? wink_face.gif

 

Calling all midrangeheads................

 

Come to think of it, if you heard my speakers you might say "Are you a closet midrangehead?"

I would say, "no, I'm a flathead!"

Too much midrange? What's that?!

Okay okay, too much mids is easier to accept but some good balance is still required.

 

If you're a flathead then you must be a midrangehead, since we're most sensitive to midrange!

Unless you're the driver variant, then I don't know what you might be sensitive to. Will have to look at your specs sheet!

post #5098 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Up to you. 0 gain allows for more steps to control volume

Is volume the only difference?

post #5099 of 6536

How much do the Bass/Treble adjustments actually affect the sound? eg for the M50 how much would I have to lower/change the bass and treble to get it as neutral as possible?

post #5100 of 6536
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuggetsPie View Post

Is volume the only difference?
I believe Clieos noted that 12dB gain had a slight bit more bass responce. Its in his review on the first page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNuggetsPie View Post

How much do the Bass/Treble adjustments actually affect the sound? eg for the M50 how much would I have to lower/change the bass and treble to get it as neutral as possible?
It affects sound like an eq would. You need to personally use it to personally make an opinion.
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