Can I bi-amp my speakers? - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shermanator 
Alright, sounds good.

I'll update this thread when I have gone through the bi-amping process, and have had a chance to listen to the speakers.

Thanks guys.

It would be better to wire the "fronts" on the receiver to the woofers and the surrounds to the tweeters
Fronts would normally receive/output the lower frequencies (for the woofer) then the surrounds.

I'm far from an audio "expert" Shermanator, but I believe Wuwhere knows even less then me.

I use to install stereos back in the late 80s and I've set myself up several receivers for bi-wiring,

All those receivers needed to be told in the setup to run bi-wiring, which your receiver does not have.

The setup wuwhere is giving you will be "weird" sounding.

The front speakers create the main (full) sound, the surrounds receive different sound (info) then what the fronts get.

The way Wuwhere has the setup you might get limited bass from the woofer on the Polk Audios.

Also with this weird wiring setup, if you set the receiver to normal stereo, the surrounds would not receive a signal

You would have to leave the receiver in an expanded stereo mode, were all 4 wires from the receiver would output a signal.

Any reason you are running wires to the sub-woofer, when you should be running an single RCA cable from the sub woofer pre-out to the RCA input on the sub-woofer?

Does the current sub-woofer have a cut-off, so it's only trying to output the lower proper freq. instead of the full range?

Email Pioneer, give then all the details (model number of a components) of what your trying to setup, see what they tell you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleAngel 

It would be better to wire the "fronts" on the receiver to the woofers and the surrounds to the tweeters
Fronts would normally receive/output the lower frequencies (for the woofer) then the surrounds.

 

 

I'm far from an audio "expert" Shermanator, but I believe Wuwhere knows even less then me.

I use to install stereos back in the late 80s and I've set myself up several receivers for bi-wiring,

All those receivers needed to be told in the setup to run bi-wiring, which your receiver does not have.

The setup wuwhere is giving you will be "weird" sounding.

The front speakers create the main (full) sound, the surrounds receive different sound (info) then what the fronts get.

The way Wuwhere has the setup you might get limited bass from the woofer on the Polk Audios.

 

Also with this weird wiring setup, if you set the receiver to normal stereo, the surrounds would not receive a signal

You would have to leave the receiver in an expanded stereo mode, were all 4 wires from the receiver would output a signal.

 

Any reason you are running wires to the sub-woofer, when you should be running an single RCA cable from the sub woofer pre-out to the RCA input on the sub-woofer?

Does the current sub-woofer have a cut-off, so it's only trying to output the lower proper freq. instead of the full range?

 

Email Pioneer, give then all the details (model number of a components) of what your trying to setup, see what they tell you.

 

 

 

I never told him to use the surround channels. I told him to use the A and the B channels, the A (front) to the highs and the B (sub) to the lows.

The output audio frequency and power should be the same on both A and B. The low pass filter is in the sub speakers, not the output from the receiver.

You don't even know the difference between a self-powered sub-woofer versus un-powered subs. If you have a powered subs, you use the line out to the powered sub. If you have un-powered sub, you use the B speaker outputs to the subs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere 
You should be able to biamp your speakers with your 5.1 receiver. Essentially, your receiver has 2 stereo amps plus one mono amp for the subwoofer. So the front channels can feed the L/R mid-tweeters and the rear channels can feed the L/R woofers.

One more thing, your speakers should have 2 pairs of terminals and those are connected by a wire or a metal bracket. Remove them first before biamping them.

That receiver does not come with any amplifier designed to work with a sub-woofer.

All the amps on the receiver are designed to work with speakers, not a sub-woofer

The only sub-woofer output on the receiver is the RCA  sub-woofer pre-out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere 
The manual does not tell you these things. There are two sets of speaker outputs, front and B. The front will be used normally for stereo. I would move the speakers to B and check that there's output to the speakers. If so, then the connection will be front to the mids/tweeters and B to the woofers of the speakers, that's how biamp is.

You really think that Pioneer would leave stuff like this out of the manual.

Pioneer has hidden features that they do not want their customers to know about?
 

What is the difference between a full range speaker versus a non-powered subwoofer?

You're so tied up with the manual. You want to read something that says you can do this or that. You think that all subwoofers are self-powered because you have not seen one that's not.

Then when you saw that picture you got confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shermanator 
Is the end goal of bi-amping just essentially doubling the power output?

If so, that may pose a problem in itself. 

My specific speakers recommend 20-125 watts per channel. I think if I bi-amp them, they will surpass 125 watts.

Am I correct? Will this cause a problem?

Bi-amping, using two "separate" amplifiers.

Better receviers use separate discret amplifers for powering each channel, the Pioneer might use less amplifiers, but have each of them power (work with) more channels,

think cheaper cost to make the receiver.

Bi-amping makes each speaker(s) get a more dedicated amplifier (amps) to it's particular needs.

Also watts is not the important part, it's amps

Voltage X Amps = watts,

Lots of cheap amplifiers will have low amps, but lots of volts, and be able to claim outrageously high watt numbers.

When you bi-wires speakers, you could be changing factors the the receiver (amplifier) is not aware of.

Maybe that's why receivers have a setting telling the receiver that it being bi-wired and yours does not have that option in it's setup.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere 
I never told him to use the surround channels. I told him to use the A and the B channels, the A (front) to the highs and the B (sub) to the lows.

The output audio frequency and power should be the same on both A and B. The low pass filter is in the sub speakers, not the output from the receiver.

You don't even know the difference between a self-powered sub-woofer versus un-powered subs. If you have a powered subs, you use the line out to the powered sub. If you have un-powered sub, you use the B speaker outputs to the subs.

Your right, I missed read.

Is there a high pass filter for the tweeter.

Anything designed to work with sub-woofers would have a cut-off so the sub-woofer does not try to work reproduce higher frequencies.

The pioneer has no way to limit the frequencies sent to the sub-woofer, does the sub-woofer it's have the cut-off.

Why does the pioneer manual not explain how to hook up an un-powered sub-woofer to the speaker outputs, another hidden feature pioneer is hiding from it's customers?

I really doubt the power section of the pioneer is designed to work with a sub.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleAngel 

Your right, I missed read.

Is there a high pass filter for the tweeter.

Anything designed to work with sub-woofers would have a cut-off so the sub-woofer does not try to work reproduce higher frequencies.

The pioneer has no way to limit the frequencies sent to the sub-woofer, does the sub-woofer it's have the cut-off.

Why does the pioneer manual not explain how to hook up an un-powered sub-woofer to the speaker outputs, another hidden feature pioneer is hiding from it's customers?

I really doubt the power section of the pioneer is designed to work with a sub.
 

 

 

The cut-off is always in the sub because different subs have different cut-offs. And they also have different efficiency. Another thing is the impedance of the subs. If their nominal impedance
is 4 ohms, I will never use the receiver. The impedance rating is specified in the manual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shermanator 
I am about to do a setup like wuwhere outlined. I got confused at first with the surrounds(my doing), but I am going to use A/B channel on the speakers.

I have just picked up a decent RCA cable for the sub, freeing up the "B" channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere 

What is the difference between a full range speaker versus a non-powered subwoofer?

I've never used or dealt with an un-powered sub-woofer, but there has to be a good reason that modern receiver manual do not come with any directions for installing an un-powered sub-woofer, why would a receiver manufacturer leave out a feature that can sale more receivers.

Also the expense of putting in an amplifier to effectively power a quality sub-woofer would raise the cost of the receiver too much.

I would also think that anyone that deals with un-powered sub-woofers would also get a separate amplifier to power it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleAngel 

 

I've never used or dealt with an un-powered sub-woofer, but there has to be a good reason that modern receiver manual do not come with any directions for installing an un-powered sub-woofer, why would a receiver manufacturer leave out a feature that can sale more receivers.

Also the expense of putting in an amplifier to effectively power a quality sub-woofer would raise the cost of the receiver too much.

I would also think that anyone that deals with un-powered sub-woofers would also get a separate amplifier to power it.

 

 

Yes, absolutely, in a typical average home audio setup, you will only see powered subs. But once you start getting towards higher end, you will see un-powered subs, powered by huge amps.

Check out Wilson Audio's subwoofers http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product_thor.shtml