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The discovery thread.! NEW sfwalcer's earphone comparo PG 1727. DannyBai multi phone impressions... - Page 1141

post #17101 of 26376

Should have the IM70 by Tuesday.

post #17102 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp10 View Post
 

 

 

Hmmmm? I agree everything you stated about the ASG-2 but more refined (unless we have different definition about what refined mean). Don't get me wrong,  you see where I rank the AS-2/ASG-2 in my signature, but I can't say it's more refined. Nevertheless, a great score for your ears sir. :beerchug:


Shhhh i am trying to hype these up for ya' meng. Why are you trying to burn me in return??? ;)

 

Wait are you saying that despite being a big ASG fan boi you think these ASG 2s are on par in refinement as the KEF M200s??? :eek:

 

Ahhh there's the rub.....

Quote:
 

Only listened to them for like a hour or two last night and no ear time today, BUT i can already say these sound better/ more refined than the m200s/ gr07 BEs/ ATH CKS100s/ VSD1 LEs, BUT how much more refined...............

 

TO BE CONTINUED......

Hmmm i think you have a point there ericp cuz i just tried these ASG 2s with their stock medium black single flange tips and they sound less sweet/ refined than the clear Ortofon tips that i was using last night. The sound is flatter, hence not as exciting with even less sub bass extension and more mid bass punch instead. I can see why unity would spend an extra $15 bones on those Ortofon tips just for these ASG 2s now.

 

With those clear Ortofon tips these ASG2s sounded more "refined" to me due to better instrument separation/ layering hence a more airy/ 3D sonic presentation when compared to the M200s. The M200s with the stock tips their bass end can be a bit obtrusive to the clarity/ details of the overall sound. That was why i felt that shorter wide bore aftermarket tips sounded better than the stock tip as depicted in the previous pics i have posted, AND that was the reason why i quoted marc0 cuz i think he seems to be hearing these M200s the same way i am hearing them. Despite that we both get a good fit/ seal with the stock M200 tips, he along with myself both felt the need to tip roll/ use other tips in order to get a deeper insertion for better clarity/ details.

 

I am sure he will fill us in regarding what he thinks. :popcorn:

post #17103 of 26376
I'm currently in the final stages of tip rolling. I have narrowed it down to the Dn1000 or LG Qb2 tips. Medium for deep insertion and large for shallow insertion. I've also been applying foam ala Sony hybrids isolating tips. I managed to transfer the foam to the dunu and LG tips. Will give the final verdict soon!
post #17104 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by d marc0 View Post

I'm currently in the final stages of tip rolling. I have narrowed it down to the Dn1000 or LG Qb2 tips. Medium for deep insertion and large for shallow insertion. I've also been applying foam ala Sony hybrids isolating tips. I managed to transfer the foam to the dunu and LG tips. Will give the final verdict soon!


^ NICE!!! Can't wait. :popcorn:

post #17105 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp10 View Post
 

Should have the IM70 by Tuesday.


Most interested in comparisons with m200

post #17106 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp10 View Post
 

Should have the IM70 by Tuesday.

 

As the bargainhunter/cheapskate here, it occurs to me that you have the AS-2 and the Cardas as equal in SQ...pricing it out, it would actually make the Cardas a sort of bargain. Could you compare them?

post #17107 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorjazz View Post
 

 

As the bargainhunter/cheapskate here, it occurs to me that you have the AS-2 and the Cardas as equal in SQ...pricing it out, it would actually make the Cardas a sort of bargain. Could you compare them?


I'd like him to compare the im70 to EVERYTHING he has :D

post #17108 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorjazz View Post
 

 

As the bargainhunter/cheapskate here, it occurs to me that you have the AS-2 and the Cardas as equal in SQ...pricing it out, it would actually make the Cardas a sort of bargain. Could you compare them?

 

 

I will have to listen to both over the weekend to give any decent detailed comparison. They don't sound alike at all, but they do have similar characteristics:

 

- both are leaning more toward the warm spectrum

- both are highly 3-Dimensional in sound (great height and width)

- Great imaging and separation of instruments in both

 

The Cardas is constantly changing with burn-in, more so than any other iem I've ever owned. The Cardas seems to make most of my recordings have a "live sound," even studio recordings. But you will get more treble extension with the ASG-2 (seems to be a bit more smoothed out in the Cardas, although it's there). I think you hear details in the mids a little bit more in the Cardas, but the ASG-2 may have the more cohesive sound (there's a lot of black space between instruments with the Cardas). That's all I have for you right now. 

post #17109 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp10 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorjazz View Post
 

 

As the bargainhunter/cheapskate here, it occurs to me that you have the AS-2 and the Cardas as equal in SQ...pricing it out, it would actually make the Cardas a sort of bargain. Could you compare them?

 

 

I will have to listen to both over the weekend to give any decent detailed comparison. They don't sound alike at all, but they do have similar characteristics:

 

- both are leaning more toward the warm spectrum

- both are highly 3-Dimensional in sound (great height and width)

- Great imaging and separation of instruments in both

 

The Cardas is constantly changing with burn-in, more so than any other iem I've ever owned. The Cardas seems to make most of my recordings have a "live sound," even studio recordings. But you will get more treble extension with the ASG-2 (seems to be a bit more smoothed out in the Cardas, although it's there). I think you hear details in the mids a little bit more in the Cardas, but the ASG-2 may have the more cohesive sound (there's a lot of black space between instruments with the Cardas). That's all I have for you right now. 

Thanks, nice breakdown, I'd guess the Cardas is a bit more exciting, "in your face" from the way you describe them, a bit like the AT 1K, no? ASG sounds more in the analytical/detail camp by comparison (these are rough descriptions, but my attempt to characterize them). I usually have to listen head to head to get a good, detailed feel for exact differences, thanks again, later

post #17110 of 26376

Time to go back to obsessing over the Deals thread and Discussion thread (will they start another thread to discuss the items that came up in the Discussion thread?)

post #17111 of 26376

So I have decided to send the HPH-200 back. I must say, as Dsnuts and DannyBai have contended, it is a very capable little headphone for the price, but I just don't hear it doing anything better than my X1 or M500. And It's not really blowing away my Onkyo. I will state, however, if anyone doesn't have the first two headphones I mentioned, and want something very good sounding on the cheap, I would recoomend the HPH-200. Do I recommend it over the Onkyo? Well, yes, because it's cheaper, but both are comparable in sound quality to my ears (althought they don't sound alike). Counting the WS99, I have too many headphones right now (never was a big headphone collector because of space). I think I'm good on headphones, although I might add the L2 and new ThinkSound ot my collection. But I really need to quit the headphone gathering, unless something for under $300 comes along and just totally blows away the X1. The X1 (with my silver-plated cable) is just really doing it for me (and then the M500).

post #17112 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp10 View Post
 

 

 

I will have to listen to both over the weekend to give any decent detailed comparison. They don't sound alike at all, but they do have similar characteristics:

 

- both are leaning more toward the warm spectrum

- both are highly 3-Dimensional in sound (great height and width)

- Great imaging and separation of instruments in both

 

The Cardas is constantly changing with burn-in, more so than any other iem I've ever owned. The Cardas seems to make most of my recordings have a "live sound," even studio recordings. But you will get more treble extension with the ASG-2 (seems to be a bit more smoothed out in the Cardas, although it's there). I think you hear details in the mids a little bit more in the Cardas, but the ASG-2 may have the more cohesive sound (there's a lot of black space between instruments with the Cardas). That's all I have for you right now. 

 

 

I completely disagree with this. IMO, the ASG-2 runs circles around the Cardas in terms of clarity, soundstage height, and detailing. The Cardas has something weird going on with its midrange that reminds me of fuzz. Just because I was so disappointed in the Cardas, I asked for permission to send it to 3 other head-fi'ers...all of whom came to the same conclusion. Joker came to the same conclusion as well. Here's a copy of what I wrote earlier...

 

 

Quote:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

 

 

Cardas EM5813 Ear Speakers

 

 

 

 

As far as I know, this iem has been in development for quite some time and, after numerous delays, it's finally been released to the market.

 

There have been some very mixed impressions about it from members here, and from other audio sites I sometimes browse. As such, I'm pretty grateful for the opportunity to hear them myself.

 

 

Firstly, this is a rather impressive looking phone. The shell is of a brassy colour not very dissimilar to the Piano Forte VIII; the cable is quite thick and inspires a good deal of confidence in the build quality, and the strain reliefs look capable enough to handle the load of the cable. All is fine and dandy...until you place them in your ears for the first time. I have pretty bad driver flex on this pair upon every single insertion attempt. I don't know if this has killed IEMs over time, but it's certainly not pleasant to experience. The second issue comes from the cable. I haven't encountered one this unwieldy since the original Tralucent silver cable. It's thick, heavy, and very microphonic. I found myself sitting still as a rock when listening to the EM5813 just to avoid any sudden movements that would make the cable growl at me. I tried to listen to it yesterday while folding laundry, but I quickly gave up and reached for my ASG-2. Overall, it's a fine looking iem, but incredibly impractical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Cardas cable (on the right) compared to the stock CIEM cable used by the ASG-2 and FA-4E XB.

 

 

 

 

The Y-splits.

 

 

 

 

The ASG-2's earpieces feel almost half the weight of the Cardas'

 

 

 

 

 

SO SHINY AND PRETTY!!!

 

 

 

 

 

My initial impressions were not exactly favorable, so it was recommended that I let them burn in some more. I've left them on my clip+ all weekend, and switched to the Auvio large tips.

 

 

The overall signature is what I'd describe as very warm and sweet. The focus here is obviously in the mid-bass and lower mids. The treble, while extended with good timbre, is quite recessed. What this leads to is a sound that I consider overly dark. The biggest thing I can't get over is a sort of fuzz with vocals that sets off my claustrophobia after a while. The actual soundstage is not small, but that quality in the vocals and overall sound signature reminds me of a room like this:

 

 

 

ep+jungle+room2.JPG

 

 

 

This tuning makes me not want to listen to most of my library. Combine this with the excess mid-bass, and I don't think I'd keep these around very long if they were mine. *Now, in the sake of fairness I want to point out that a lot of this might be due to the driver flex. However, I've tried to eliminate this possibility by using my sawed off complys and TS-500, both yielding the same type of sound. Maybe the Ear Mirrors don't exactly mirror my own ears.

 

 

 

Compared to the ASG-2:

 

 

Test Tracks and Gear:

 

iPod Classic 6th Gen -> Tralucent T1. This was my primary setup, but I confirmed my findings with the iPhone 4 and my desktop setup.

 

 

Tracks:

 

 

For Reasons Unknown - The Killers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your Love - The Outfield

 

 

 

 

 

 

Move Your Body - Nina Sky

 

 

 

 

 

Only Love - Ben Howard

 

 

 

 

 

 

Valerie - Amy Winehouse (Back to Black version)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I started off with the Amy Winehouse song because I thought it would play most to the Cardas' strengths....and I was right. Something about Amy's voice song works really well here, and the electric guitar to the left is just having a grand old time. Amy's vocals are stark, yet smooth, but the background vocals exhibit the fuzz I mentioned earlier. I switch the ASG-2 and start laughing. The vocal intimacy is still there, but her voice is so much more clear, and the background vocals are much more defined and separated. There's also less mid-bass on the ASG-2, making the sub-bass tones of the guitar more articulated and less masked. The electric guitar has a taller soundstage to play around in. I can hear tiny inflections that are simply absent in the EM5813.

 

I hit next on the playlist, and Your Love starts playing. It's one of my favorite songs overall, and the G2 simply makes it come alive. Switching to the Cardas, the soundstage collapses in due to the extra warmth, and the fuzz is there again. One of my favorite parts of the song is around 1:30, where the toms on the drum set kick in. You can follow them from the right to the left side of the sound field. The ASG-2's extra soundstage height help with the imaging, and the extra treble presence gives better attack to the impact.

 

I use Move Your Body for bass performance sometimes and, with the ASG-2 as the baseline, the warmer nature of the EM5813 works better in its favor here. Though the ASG-2 has greater detail, separation, etc., the EM5813's more laid back treble allows for higher volumes than the ASG-2 can manage without sibilance. That adds up to more headroom for the bass. The EM5813 sounds more fun on this track.

 

Last was Ben Howard's Only Love. Again, the EM5813's midrange haze was a distraction. However, the extra warmth and intimacy was nice. Then I remembered I could open my ASG-2's bass port to achieve the same level of warmth without that haze. I also think I hear a bit of shoutiness in the Cardas. I'm also noticing some timbre issues due to its tonality, in that some instrument harmonics are screwy or missing due to the way the FR is skewed.

 

 

I really don't know what to say about the EM5813 as a package. It has its moments of brilliance, but the bad far outweighs the good to my ears. I have a feeling that the metal housing may have something to do with the way it sounds, as it has a (very small) trace of the Piano Forte's overall character (the tuning is drastically different though). I don't see it as a practical package, either in sonics or ergonomics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a copy of the ASG-2's graph on top, with the Cardas graph below it. Note how the treble almost dives off a cliff after 5 kHz...

 

 

 

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1244.0;attach=4673;image

 

 

 

graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=4153&scale=30

 

 

 

IMO there's no comparison between the two.

post #17113 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorjazz View Post

Thanks, nice breakdown, I'd guess the Cardas is a bit more exciting, "in your face" from the way you describe them, a bit like the AT 1K, no? ASG sounds more in the analytical/detail camp by comparison (these are rough descriptions, but my attempt to characterize them). I usually have to listen head to head to get a good, detailed feel for exact differences, thanks again, later

I wouldn't really call the ASG-2 analytical at all. It's a sig that's tilted towards mid bass/mids (lower mids), with some upper midrange suckout and sorta peaky treble that's got decent air to it; it's a warmer sig, but I wouldn't classify it as "dark". I think it's an engaging and detailed sound without being in your face about it (great for long listening sessions) It's got some fairly good genre bandwidth but will fare better with some genres than others. I like to listen to rock, electronic, vocal, and acoustic music with it but it handles all genres fairly well. As VWinter mentioned, there's a palpable weight behind the notes that really makes the ASG-2 shine with certain genres. I was listening to Dylan's Modern Times awhile back and the G-2 just nails that album better than any other phone I had in my collection. I recently had a listen to the FA4 and that's an exceptional phone too. I'd take that over the 334 any day

Edit- NVM I see that Chancellor Eke has already descended on this joint rolleyes.gif
Edited by Idsynchrono_24 - 11/29/13 at 9:16am
post #17114 of 26376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post


Edit- NVM I see that Chancellor Eke has already descended on this joint rolleyes.gif

 

LOL, for some reason nowadays I just have a compulsion to be right because school is making me feel like a dumb-ass. Anywho, found one other set of impressions:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post


I received the Cardas and FA-4 today.

The cardas cable isn't as bad as I thought after all the wailing and gnashing of teeth I've read over it. It is annoying though below the Y split. The pouch is hilarious. It's like trying to squeeze a fat man into an XS wife beater. You can make it fit but why?

Regarding sound: the bass is very nice- bold and rich. The middle and lower mid are nice too but then it all goes downhill after that... literally. Upper mid sounds pretty scooped out and I'm left wondering, "where the treble at?" If these had any kind of upper mid and treble presence, they might be very pleasing. As it stands now, only bass heads need apply. Now off to create an EQ.
 
post #17115 of 26376

And I completely disagree with eke2k6. I can produce three or four head-fiers who love the Cardas, and wouldn't say that the ASG-2 runs circles around it. Now, I don't know how long the others had the Cardas to listen to it and burn it in, but I know you didn't have it for an extended period of time to listen to, eke, and you wrote it off quite quickly. So I'm just giving my experience with it after longer periods of listening time and burning it in.

 

Now, with that stated, I didn't say the Cardas was BETTER than the ASG-2. You never seen me type that. I'm not saying it's significantly worse either. They don't sound the same, But I was asked MY opinion (not yours or Joker's). That's how I hear it sir.  lol

 

 

I pay no attention to the graphs, because most times graphs that are put up don't reflect how I hear an earphone. I have stated in recent posts that Aurisonics is my FAVORITE universal earphone company (tied with 1964 EARS for favorite customs company), so I'm not in any shape or form trying to belittle the ASG-2. It's a great earphone! It's a great company (Aurisonics)! Buy more American by the way!

 

I've also stated in a recent post (on one of these threads - forget which one) that my favorite top three earphones to listen to right now are the AS-2, V6, and M200 (no particular order). After those three, I chose the Cardas. So for me, the ASG-2 doesn't run rings around the Cardas, or vice versa. Both are great sound quality-wise, but the Cardas is a sound signature - I will admit - that you have to spend more time with it to get use to it. I wouldn't call it weird though. It has it's own niche. I've heard a lot of earphones (sans these super expensive $1K or near it universals, which I'm okay with because I don't think I will ever pay $1k for a universal). The Cardas ranks up there with one of the best to my ears. But I will say this, there seems to be no middle ground on opinions about the Cardas. Either head-fi members love it or hate it . I fall in the love it camp. It is becoming the most polarizing iem here since the TF10 (which I was never a big fan of but most on head-fi seemed to love it. I was never big fan of the DBA02 either). 

 

Cardas can sit proudly next to the ASG-2 in my list of favorite earphones. 

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