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The discovery thread.! New NiceHCK DZ7 1DD+6 BA iem impression by ericp10. Page 2153 - Page 1026

post #15376 of 32897

Going for my dog walk/music listening time, have the Pioneers on but I'll bring the 750's, post later, nice day out, see ya!

post #15377 of 32897
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEleventy View Post

I had the M200 and fit was an issue for me. I can get them on pretty decently with my glasses off but putting on my glasses breaks the seal most of the time. It was also too bass heavy for me so I went with the Fidelio S2. Matches my sound preferences more without the struggle. I think the RHA 750 and Dunu DN1000 are in the mix as well.

Weird, they were bass heavy to you? Howd you do that? I cant hear powerful vass from these that often since the seal breaks. I pmed a few members on headfi and havent received a response on bass levels. I think that the bass quantity is just a bit more Than the bassos, but I dont know if that is just me or a seal issue. I tried to follow denis' advice and no dice.
post #15378 of 32897

I think the main issue here is that he hasn't put the things he's talking about in his ears.  Now given the state of the art in acoustic measurements, it is indeed possible to roughly talk about whether a product is Hi-Fi (in the sense of being able to reproduce the recording faithfully) without listening to it.  Where things go south from here is

 

1. On the one hand, practically everyone on head-fi is of the extreme opinion that one cannot form any opinion of how a product sounds without listening to it.  Which isn't really conducive to forwarding the state of the art, as one is not allowed to apply scientific observations in any way, even when it is blindingly obvious.

2. On the other hand, Inks is not just claiming that a product is "low-fi" based on measurements (which could be backed by measurements), but effectively that people shouldn't be able to enjoy what they're listening to, people are idiots for buying and listening to these phones.  (mind you, I haven't seen him say these things myself.  I'm going by hearsay here)  And if he's making such claims, these are not claims that can be backed by measurements.

 

While I agree that people can get great sound for a fraction of what they're spending now, I don't go around slamming people's choices--I know it's futile by now and besides, not everyone is prepared to spend the time getting their audio systems together for advanced EQ.  And if enough brain-EQ can make something like the SM64 sound as awesome as it's claimed to be, I ain't even gonna touch the subject of CKS1000 with a ten-foot pole.  Heck like I say I don't even see anything out of the ordinary in that graph.

 

Although I agree with a lot of what Inks is saying, there's no denying that he rubs people the wrong way and the realities of the society means that with the whole of head-fi on one side and him on the other, it's definitely him who has to change his behaviour.  Like I pointed out to him he could really put his energy to better use.

post #15379 of 32897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post
 

I think the main issue here is that he hasn't put the things he's talking about in his ears.  Now given the state of the art in acoustic measurements, it is indeed possible to roughly talk about whether a product is Hi-Fi (in the sense of being able to reproduce the recording faithfully) without listening to it.  Where things go south from here is

 

1. On the one hand, practically everyone on head-fi is of the extreme opinion that one cannot form any opinion of how a product sounds without listening to it.  Which isn't really conducive to forwarding the state of the art, as one is not allowed to apply scientific observations in any way, even when it is blindingly obvious.

2. On the other hand, Inks is not just claiming that a product is "low-fi" based on measurements (which could be backed by measurements), but effectively that people shouldn't be able to enjoy what they're listening to, people are idiots for buying and listening to these phones.  (mind you, I haven't seen him say these things myself.  I'm going by hearsay here)  And if he's making such claims, these are not claims that can be backed by measurements.

 

While I agree that people can get great sound for a fraction of what they're spending now, I don't go around slamming people's choices--I know it's futile by now and besides, not everyone is prepared to spend the time getting their audio systems together for advanced EQ.  And if enough brain-EQ can make something like the SM64 sound as awesome as it's claimed to be, I ain't even gonna touch the subject of CKS1000 with a ten-foot pole.  Heck like I say I don't even see anything out of the ordinary in that graph.

 

Although I agree with a lot of what Inks is saying, there's no denying that he rubs people the wrong way and the realities of the society means that with the whole of head-fi on one side and him on the other, it's definitely him who has to change his behaviour.  Like I pointed out to him he could really put his energy to better use.

 

 

 

No, no. It isn't just a matter of faithful reproduction. To me, what Inks does is pseudo science. He always touts the FR graph as his way of determining the value of an iem, but he never takes the time domain into consideration. If an iem had a 15db boost in the bass, but had almost zero decay down there, would it still "sound" like it had a 15db boost without the use of a tone generator? How would it sound against the treble and mids if both had longer decay than the bass?

 

As for the SM64, absolutely no-one who heard the SM64 could definitively note the 5K suckout. Shotgunshane himself remarked that the mids were clearer and more seductive than some even pricier iems. You know why? Look at the CSD plots for the decay times of the surrounding frequencies, and how small the Q of the suckout is. 

 

It is akin to religious extremists who take even one sentence of a holy text, and use it as a means to further their own desires.

 

This is the discovery thread though, so I'll not make any more comments unless to respond to something specific.


Edited by eke2k6 - 10/12/13 at 10:05am
post #15380 of 32897
Dsnuts I have to ask why the m200's didn't get the nuts award , as you said the kerfs sound better than the ma750s. Maybe because of fit issues?
post #15381 of 32897
Quote:
Originally Posted by koreanzombie View Post

Dsnuts I have to ask why the m200's didn't get the nuts award , as you said the kerfs sound better than the ma750s. Maybe because of fit issues?
it was the fit issue
post #15382 of 32897

Fit is such an individual issue, as I've posted here ad nauseum. Just came back from my dog walk, listened to the Pioneers and the 750's (threw in UE 700's for fun...easier fit for me). So, the question was asked, details on the 750's. To me, again, fit is not so easy (think I may have a problem with iem's that are supposed to be superficial, that is not a deep fit). I know when this is happenning when I get best bass and sound when I hold in the headphone, but lose it when I let go. Anyway, holding in the 750's, to me they sound nice, with some caveats. Think they are a bit tipped up...some who are sensitive to highs may not find this to their liking. They do good bass, though not great, but definitely enough, good imaging/stage. Think tone color and clarity are a bit reduced (in comparison to the Pioneers). Good body shaking factor, exciting presentation. (again, many here may hear these differently, at least from the other posts I've read).

later...gotta do leaves (great isolation test, that cockamamie blower).

post #15383 of 32897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by koreanzombie View Post

Dsnuts I have to ask why the m200's didn't get the nuts award , as you said the kerfs sound better than the ma750s. Maybe because of fit issues?

 

The M200s for me does sound nice but I can understand docs issue with dish type earphones not fitting him correct. We all have different ear shapes and sizes and universals are made for fit "most" ears but there are going to be a few that they don't fit with..

 

You can have the best sounding earphones in the world but you can throw out any notion of good sound out the door when they don't fit correctly for you. For me I have had zero issues with fit for every single earphones I owned/ bought/ reviewed/ sampled and that includes a lot. More than you guys would imagine. Thinking back on all the universals cheap or otherwise they all fit me in one way or another. Except the M200. For some reason they come out of my ears no matter what tips I use and how I put them in my ears. I bent the hook so far into my ears even to the point where you couldn't push the tips into my ears any further and they still slowly poped out. It was weird. Again I have never had any type of issue with fit for anything. So now I can understand why a person would not favor a sound due to correct fit as most of the time I could not relate. But now I do. When I held them in my ears they sounded fantastic.. So based on how your ear is shaped the M200 with either fit you or they won't no matter what you do. So it is actually a luck of the draw if they fit you or not.

 

If anyone decides to get them make sure it is from a place you can return them just in case.

post #15384 of 32897
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuphonicArin View Post
 

Now let's get back to discovering, let me show you guys one of my favorite current cans

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMLcgn7J1Kf6RLQYSQ9ZJlf7OzkNvSbIHIqZmDQdNUFURaEK6x The Denon Hp700: these cans are quite excellent at detailing and clarity stock, but after a bit of modding and burning in they become a fully analytical/fun can that competes other heavy hitters such as the Beyerdynamic Dt770, Fostex T50rp, possibly mad dogs, and even the K701. The best part is that they've got awesome durability, an expansive Soundstage for a closed can, and after a pad swap, are surprisingly comfy, all at the price of 99 dollars.

I guess no one wants to have a look at these

post #15385 of 32897

Speed clarity bass extension texture resolution body detail sound stage....its all there now improved dramatically. Man on board audio is really bad this is a monumental leap in sound quality! This little card packs alot of punch god was it worth it. Jesus people using onboard audio STOP RIGHT NOW and upgrade your DAC you have no idea what your missing until you do. These can don't sound good anymore..they sing. My mind is officially blown :L3000:

 

post #15386 of 32897
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

No, no. It isn't just a matter of faithful reproduction. To me, what Inks does is pseudo science. He always touts the FR graph as his way of determining the value of an iem, but he never takes the time domain into consideration. If an iem had a 15db boost in the bass, but had almost zero decay down there, would it still "sound" like it had a 15db boost without the use of a tone generator? How would it sound against the treble and mids if both had longer decay than the bass?

 

As for the SM64, absolutely no-one who heard the SM64 could definitively note the 5K suckout. Shotgunshane himself remarked that the mids were clearer and more seductive than some even pricier iems. You know why? Look at the CSD plots for the decay times of the surrounding frequencies, and how small the Q of the suckout is. 

 

It is akin to religious extremists who take even one sentence of a holy text, and use it as a means to further their own desires.

 

This is the discovery thread though, so I'll not make any more comments unless to respond to something specific.

Time domain characteristics are considered, but rarely a factor, it takes a significant decrease/increase in resolution to cause an affect and the FR will still be the most apparent. The Quadbeat/FXD70 has a big bass boost with small decay, guess what? It's still muddy, if anything it sounds worse as the bass sounds unnatural and still quite boosted. Treble and mids can't have longer decay than bass, relative longer than the norm yes, but not more than lower regions, do you guess these things? 

 

Plenty report the suckout, even joker. Thing is, it's very narrow-band so it can likely get away with it, still doesn't take away the fact that it's poorly tuned in that region. Bass loos phenomal and tight, so I'm not surprised shotgunshane found it clear in the mids, he still didn't like it very much though from what I recall, I wonder why...Decay looks even, still doesn't mean the 5k is all of a sudden not sucked out anymore, EQ an IEM down 15db, still still sucked out in that region even though the time domain is even. 

 

unneccessary last comments. 

post #15387 of 32897

Hey David - we met at CanJam and were talking about Philips headphones.  Can you message me a good contact email or numbers so I can make sure I have the request correct.  thanks

post #15388 of 32897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsnuts View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by koreanzombie View Post

Dsnuts I have to ask why the m200's didn't get the nuts award , as you said the kerfs sound better than the ma750s. Maybe because of fit issues?

 

The M200s for me does sound nice but I can understand docs issue with dish type earphones not fitting him correct. We all have different ear shapes and sizes and universals are made for fit "most" ears but there are going to be a few that they don't fit with..

 

You can have the best sounding earphones in the world but you can throw out any notion of good sound out the door when they don't fit correctly for you. For me I have had zero issues with fit for every single earphones I owned/ bought/ reviewed/ sampled and that includes a lot. More than you guys would imagine. Thinking back on all the universals cheap or otherwise they all fit me in one way or another. Except the M200. For some reason they come out of my ears no matter what tips I use and how I put them in my ears. I bent the hook so far into my ears even to the point where you couldn't push the tips into my ears any further and they still slowly poped out. It was weird. Again I have never had any type of issue with fit for anything. So now I can understand why a person would not favor a sound due to correct fit as most of the time I could not relate. But now I do. When I held them in my ears they sounded fantastic.. So based on how your ear is shaped the M200 with either fit you or they won't no matter what you do. So it is actually a luck of the draw if they fit you or not.

 

If anyone decides to get them make sure it is from a place you can return them just in case.

Interesting, I'm the anti-DS in a way...I love iem's, prefer them to over ear or on ears, actually, but have a hell of a time getting proper fit and seal, some I eventually make peace with, others never manage a good fit. Must have MUTANT EARS!!!!!!! (been watching too much Supernatural :bigsmile_face:)

post #15389 of 32897

Oh, figured out why the mono switch on the Pioneer headphones...supposed to be for DJ's, they often listen to 1 side to hear what's going on outside in the room, I suppose, mono lets them hear all the music (DUH!!)

post #15390 of 32897
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuphonicArin View Post
 

I guess no one wants to have a look at these


I have been eyeing those DENON D700 for a while, glad you got a set to add to the impressions. Extreme depth of bass with clear highs sounds like a winner to me.  Initially I was put off by the comparison to the M50, it being M50 levels.  But you throwing that T50 in there makes me think twice now.

 

Oh and soundstage.

 

 

trouble is right now I have too much stuff, somehow those would fit right in  I think though.

 

What pads did you swap on there?


Edited by nick n - 10/12/13 at 2:14pm
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › The discovery thread.! New NiceHCK DZ7 1DD+6 BA iem impression by ericp10. Page 2153