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New Hifiman Headphone HE-400 is out - Page 303

post #4531 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk1410 View Post

All songs basically. It is not as bothersome really, just that I thought the D5ks are supposed to be more sibilant than the He 400, but my HE 400s have more sibilance. I think my O2 might be adding to the sibilance. The E17 is much better, and with the e17 the Denona have more sibilance. Weird. Maybe I am just imagining things.

I have the rev 2s though, the drivers are white.

 

I see; then you are just sensitive to the emphasized upper treble present in all HE400 versions, rather than the specific "rev3 brightness" (which adds onto that).

post #4532 of 6020

Is the O2 connected to the ODAC?  What is powering your ODAC?  There have been reports of the ODAC sounding sibilant and harsh out of a usb port that isn't giving it enough juice.

post #4533 of 6020

What exactly is sibilance? From what i could read on wikipedia it's some sort of high pitched sound resulting from the articulation of words like sipzipshipchip, and Jeep? But unsure how it relates to what you guys are hearing.

post #4534 of 6020

It is exactly that, an over-emphasis on th or sh of fh sounds, usually a result caused by ringing or excessive treble.  There's sibilance in real life speech though, some people have it.

 

In the world of audio reproduction though, the speakers, recording or mastering could all equally be at fault.

post #4535 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

It is exactly that, an over-emphasis on th or sh of fh sounds, usually a result caused by ringing or excessive treble.  There's sibilance in real life speech though, some people have it.

 

In the world of audio reproduction though, the speakers, recording or mastering could all equally be at fault.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. So the HE-400's rev 3 have sibilance? Is this something really apparent, or do you need to be a skilled listener to notice it?

post #4536 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Is the O2 connected to the ODAC?  What is powering your ODAC?  There have been reports of the ODAC sounding sibilant and harsh out of a usb port that isn't giving it enough juice.

Its the O2+ODAC combo, and it is connected to the standard USB 2.0 port on the back of my motherboard.

post #4537 of 6020

The HE400s do seem to me to have quite a lot of sibilance (or at least it is noticable), and is one of the only negative things about them, especially considering they generally aren't bright sounding.


Edited by pb21cyclist - 10/4/12 at 11:22am
post #4538 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb21cyclist View Post

The HE400s do seem to me to have quite a lot of sibilance, and is one of the only negative things about them, especially considering they generally aren't bright sounding.

 

This CSD (courtesy of purrin@changstar) really explains itself well in terms of HE400 sonic character

 

In that they ARE indeed bright, just not bright across the board, only in the upper 2/3rds of the treble region. In turn, it will be sibilant than sounds with more shelved treble, but less so than headphones with 100% elevated treble. Also notable is the subdued upper midrange, which contributes to the treble presence as that becomes more prominent by contrast.

 


Edited by jerg - 10/4/12 at 11:25am
post #4539 of 6020

Whats the time axis about?

post #4540 of 6020

Think of it as frequency response over time.  While it's not necessarily that, it's a valid tool for showing ringing or other resonances in a headphone, that a simple frequency response chart wont' show.  It's a more accurate depiction of a headphone's true sound signature in that regard.

post #4541 of 6020

OK so in theory a better result would be if the time spread was lower?

 

Why is there a 2kHz mountain?! Is that like a kind of resonance or something? And a 500-1k ridge?

post #4542 of 6020

Jerg, thanks for the chart. Mind a quick introduction to how to read it? Also, is there one for the earlier revisions around for comparison?

 

I'm pretty bummed about all the negative attention the HE-400's getting. I was pretty sure it was going to be my next headphone, but now i'm not so sure. Then again, i have no idea if i'll hear what everyone else is hearing.

post #4543 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb21cyclist View Post

OK so in theory a better result would be if the time spread was lower?

 

Why is there a 2kHz mountain?! Is that like a kind of resonance or something? And a 500-1k ridge?

500-1k ridge is natural, all headphones have that, to a varying degree. Although admittedly the HE400 500-1k are a bit problematic, as there is indeed some ringing in the 1k region of HE400s that can be heard just from some sinewave sweeps.

 

The 2kHz sharp ridge is a benign measurement artifact that is present in a lot of large diaphragm planar magnetic headphones and is seemingly undetectable by our hearing.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldsen View Post

Jerg, thanks for the chart. Mind a quick introduction to how to read it? Also, is there one for the earlier revisions around for comparison?

 

I'm pretty bummed about all the negative attention the HE-400's getting. I was pretty sure it was going to be my next headphone, but now i'm not so sure. Then again, i have no idea if i'll hear what everyone else is hearing.

 

 

CSD is basically a more sophisticated frequency response curve, that also has a time axis. You can see how fast the transient response is via seeing how quick the signal decays; usually at and under 0.5 ms is great. You can also see ringing via distinctive sharp ridges that drag across the time axis, some are benign, others actually mess up the sound. Also you can distinguish if sharp drops in frequency response are benign or actual valleys.

 

This measurement was a rev2 HE400 with velour pads.


Edited by jerg - 10/4/12 at 12:26pm
post #4544 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

CSD is basically a more sophisticated frequency response curve, that also has a time axis. You can see how fast the transient response is via seeing how quick the signal decays; usually at and under 0.5 ms is great. You can also see ringing via distinctive sharp ridges that drag across the time axis, some are benign, others actually mess up the sound. Also you can distinguish if sharp drops in frequency response are benign or actual valleys.

 

This measurement was a rev2 HE400 with velour pads.

 

Awesome stuff! Having heard the rev3, can you theorize about how the rev3 frequency response looks?

post #4545 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldsen View Post

 

Awesome stuff! Having heard the rev3, can you theorize about how the rev3 frequency response looks?

 

Relative to the rev2 CSD plot: probably a broadband increase of ~3 dB between 5kHz and 20kHz, with some minor ringing around 11kHz.

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