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New Hifiman Headphone HE-400 is out - Page 292

post #4366 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

The hd650 has great "synergy" if that's what you'd like to call it with the lyr. Comparative review upcoming...

 

RushNerd's video review is quite good. Check it out as it features the he400 which ends up doing quite well. wink.gif


Then it's really difficult choice if HD650's bass is on par with Lyr

post #4367 of 6020

After a whole day with the foam mod, I must say I love the changes it brought to the sound.

 

First and foremost, the treble got tamed perfectly, there is still a bit of grain but probably even less than the previous revision HE400s I had, very trivial and only heard with specific vocals in specific songs when I focus on the words. Overall treble is exactly the level I want now, extremely balanced compared to the rest of the frequency range.

 

Mids are actually smoothed out more, confirmed both by sinewave sweeps (where I know there are distinctive sharp peaks and drops there are much mellower transitions now) and in music. Levels didn't change at all so it's the exact same voicing still, which is what I hoped for.

 

Bass has a peculiar change where it lost the slightest hint of texture / growl (maybe 5% less texture than before) but at the same time it sounds more cohesive and enveloping, very LCD2/3-like. My ears enjoy this change, so I guess I do too.

 

As far as I can perceive, instrument sep didn't suffer, nor did soundstage. Clarity is still great, though the increase in smoothness may have masked some perceived transparency. I don't mind it though as it is still insanely detailed and open-sounding; was worried initially that having foam directly covering the driver would induce some sort of cupped effect but nope, it's fine.

post #4368 of 6020

Sounds like it may be worth a try. Is the foam from the stuck to the back of the earpad?

post #4369 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb21cyclist View Post

Sounds like it may be worth a try. Is the foam from the stuck to the back of the earpad?

 

If you mean where I got the foam from; it's peeled off from the backside of Audio Technica M50 pleather earpads.

 

If you mean where I ended up applying the foam, I adhered it directly onto the driver face rather than onto the HFM pad backside, as this way it won't have the chance to move or vibrate due to the drivers.

 

It is actually kind of like how HFM does damping for HE6s - they actually have a 1/4-circle piece of foam adhered onto the driver face for those cans possibly for the exact same effect.

post #4370 of 6020

Just got my Asgard today!

 

My initial impression is that, in comparison to the STX it appears to make these headphones less fatiguing by a longshot... Instrumental separation and soundstage appears to increase as well. Maybe a bit more oomph to the bass, but not much.

 

I'm not sure if it's in my head or not yet though... Extremely hard to A/B these things at volume matched levels, since I have to lower the PC volume when I switch to Asgard. I'll post some more impressions later if anyone's interested, since I've only had 20 minutes with it. But at any rate I'm gonna keep this thing as it is very nifty. If I'm not just trippin I can see why people think it's such a great match.

post #4371 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by olegausany View Post


The problem with HD650 isn't mid or high priced amp it's find perfect match or senergy such as Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1. I heard them with a lot of different setup,unfortunately never heard Lyr, and they lacking sub-bass even with expensive ones like Burson 160D or 2pcs Woo Audio but sound decent with DragonFly/Asgard

 

Very true.  HD650 of course simply lacks sub-bass in general as a nature of the driver...insufficient displacement without distortion under 40Hz so it's rolled off pretty steeply as a function of design.  It's not a question of what amp one pairs it with in terms of sub-bass so much as a function of the headphone itself.  However in all other areas, amp scalability is almost unmatched, at least in the sub-$1k headphone arena.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

The hd650 has great "synergy" if that's what you'd like to call it with the lyr. Comparative review upcoming...

 

+1!

post #4372 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

Very true.  HD650 of course simply lacks sub-bass in general as a nature of the driver...insufficient displacement without distortion under 40Hz so it's rolled off pretty steeply as a function of design.  It's not a question of what amp one pairs it with in terms of sub-bass so much as a function of the headphone itself.  However in all other areas, amp scalability is almost unmatched, at least in the sub-$1k headphone arena.

Put some heavier low-end EQ on and both are closer to together than father apart in the low end (the 400 obviously is more audible lower down though). I have noticed at loud volumes when a lot of sub bass is present and under 40hz is amped, they will clip, or making a weird cliping sound, kinda subtle but it is there. I have to assume this is the driver as at the same settings/volume the 400 has no trouble (although the 400 will distort at like 92%-100% volume on the asgard, i'm curious as to weather the amp distorts at that level or the 400s do.

post #4373 of 6020

Most likely the amp.

post #4374 of 6020

Decided that the fabric on my custom grills are still introducing too much ringing and inhibiting soundstage too much to warrant the slight dust protection, so I ripped em out, going L95North style.

 

Just gotta be a bit more careful around pokey things and blow some compressed air in there once every while; the cleaner and more open sound is worth it though. These almost sound fully speaker-like this way, very surreal.

 

 

 


Edited by jerg - 10/1/12 at 10:47am
post #4375 of 6020

What do you mean by ringing? A tinnitus like ringing sound?

 

Because it's either totally in sync with my own tinnitus or I don't hear it at all with stock grills.

 

I can totally see how they would open up the soundstage... I really want to try modding mine.

post #4376 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

What do you mean by ringing? A tinnitus like ringing sound?

 

Because it's either totally in sync with my own tinnitus or I don't hear it at all with stock grills.

 

I can totally see how they would open up the soundstage... I really want to try modding mine.

Seeing as how the cans are extremely sensitive to outside interference (put your hand up to the cups) I wonder if the grills play a role in the sound and treble area.

post #4377 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

What do you mean by ringing? A tinnitus like ringing sound?

 

Because it's either totally in sync with my own tinnitus or I don't hear it at all with stock grills.

 

I can totally see how they would open up the soundstage... I really want to try modding mine.

 

Nah, it's not anything you can perceive directly from listening to music. More obvious with pink noise, where instead of a very natural ssshhhhh, the fabric (or any significant metal / fabric obstruction, in the form of grills really) causes the pink noise to shift more towards sssshwwwwhhhh; this translates to a subtle but significant effect on music, especially live ones, where the background ambiance would become more "headphone-like" rather than completely open and clean.

 

That's why I keep stressing that these sound eerily speaker-like now; there is zero change in actual voicing or specific frequency characteristics of the drivers, it's just infinitely cleaner and more open relative to the heavy metal/fabric obstruction in the form of stock HFM grills.


Edited by jerg - 10/1/12 at 10:59am
post #4378 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushNerd View Post

Put some heavier low-end EQ on and both are closer to together than father apart in the low end (the 400 obviously is more audible lower down though). I have noticed at loud volumes when a lot of sub bass is present and under 40hz is amped, they will clip, or making a weird cliping sound, kinda subtle but it is there. I have to assume this is the driver as at the same settings/volume the 400 has no trouble (although the 400 will distort at like 92%-100% volume on the asgard, i'm curious as to weather the amp distorts at that level or the 400s do.

 

HD650 should distort if you significantly EQ the sub-40Hz region up.  Sub-40Hz is its one true weakness.  IMO it's not worth it to try to force it to be a bass canon when that's not where it's strengths lie.  In that, HE-400 makes an excellent complement since it hand's bass to 20Hz very well, assuming it's well fed.

post #4379 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

HD650 should distort if you significantly EQ the sub-40Hz region up.  Sub-40Hz is its one true weakness.  IMO it's not worth it to try to force it to be a bass canon when that's not where it's strengths lie.  In that, HE-400 makes an excellent complement since it hand's bass to 20Hz very well, assuming it's well fed.

I've heard people say asgard with the 400 is near end game (as if that means anything lol). But I have to wonder if they need a more specific amp with a ton of power to get to where they need to be. I know they are efficient, but they are also orthodynamic.

post #4380 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushNerd View Post

I've heard people say asgard with the 400 is near end game (as if that means anything lol). But I have to wonder if they need a more specific amp with a ton of power to get to where they need to be. I know they are efficient, but they are also orthodynamic.

 

Not quite as simple though.  HD650 may have distortion in the sub-bass if you artificially ramp up those frequencies but HE-400 has more distortion in the upper-mids naturally, so it's a tradeoff. 

 

HE-400 needs some power, but the Asgard can put out sufficient power in terms of the raw current and voltage requirements, certainly.  Technically Asgard can drive the LCD-2's and the HE-500's, both of which require more power than the HE-400.  The Asgard would probably struggle with HE-5LE or HE-4, and HE-6 would be a non-starter (and that would be an understatement.)

 

However there's a distinct performance gain in HE-400 as you move up the power ladder a bit, specifically in terms of its DR swings and bass control.

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