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New Hifiman Headphone HE-400 is out - Page 153

post #2281 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

 

Like you, I couldn't understand why it was released either.  Unless, HifiMAN was trying to get a product out a $449 price point before the HE-400s came along.  I mean, an ortho headphone with half a magnet structure?  Isn't that sort of like a guy being born with only one nut?  biggrin.gif

 

Okay, now you've gone and offended me!! deadhorse.gif

post #2282 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Its when there is warmth in a closed sounding headphone that really doesn't resonate well with me.

 

I really get where you are coming from here. I have been looking for that certain sweetspot with warmth and having tested DT770s, M50s and the whole of Denons lineup I pretty much agree that it can get too much.

 

Changing to velours on the 400s should apparently make tham a tad less warm and a little bit more comfortable though. I have yet to test this as I am going to get really acquainted with the sound of them before changing it up for comparison.

post #2283 of 6020
Yeah, I'm sure going from pleather to velours should open up the sound quite a bit. I'm excited, and while they may not be imediately what I'm used to, I'm sure I'll like them well enough.
post #2284 of 6020
Can someone describe the term "dark" that is commonly associated with these? I can understand bright but the opposite to this would be dull for me. Also is the term directed to a specific range of frequency?
post #2285 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


That's extreme. Someone mentioned the HE-4 being like the Grado equivalent of the Hifiman lineup. I would agree. It's lively, energetic, and not like the usual warm, natural, organic sound of the Hifimans (they still sound a lot more organic than most dynamics I've heard). That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just DIFFERENT. Of course, anyone who wants a warm, natural sound, isn't going to like the HE-4. They should know by now that the HE-4 is Hifiman's slightly V-shaped headphone, with bass and treble emphasis.
That's like saying the DT880 is terrible because they prefer the HD650's signature. In this case, it's a clear matter of preference, and not one being bad while the other being good. I certainly wouldn't hate on the HD650, but I know for my personal taste, they wouldn't sound good to me. I bought the ESW9 which is a warm, very smooth, and liquid sounding headphone, and I hated EVERYTHING about it. Yet I didn't think it was bad. It just wasn't for me.
The HE-4 walks all over the DT880s, and is my favorite semi-bright headphone I've ever heard.
I hate it when people seriously compare a bright headphone with a warm one. It's stupid. Compare warm with warm, bright with bright.
I bet I'd prefer the HE-4 over the LCD2/HD650 any day of the week. I don't like headphones that tread on being too warm. I prefer mostly bright headphones. Some warmth is fine. SOME. I'm pretty sure I'd prefer the HE-4 over the HE400, but I didn't wanna get the HE-4 again due to it's serious power requirements.

Welcome to Head-Fi circa 2006.... ;)

post #2286 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenlongs View Post

Can someone describe the term "dark" that is commonly associated with these? I can understand bright but the opposite to this would be dull for me. Also is the term directed to a specific range of frequency?

Bright is generally a term used for a sound built "from the top down" where the treble is boosted and forms the dominant focus of the sound.  Dark is generally therefor the opposite, sound built "from the bottom up" where the bass and/or mids are either dominant, or the treble is sufficiently rolled off so that it appears so.  While the resultt of bright is generally resulting in sparkly, detailed, forward, airy sound, dark is generally resulting in a full bodied, weighty, potentially laid back, or more emotive sound.

 

In the case of HE-400, it's one of the darker cans out there, at least among the open back variety.  It has a nice bass weight, a bit of solid midbass without much of a hump, neutral mids, and a cleaer treble as a reuslt of some carefully placed spikes, but with an overall rolled off upper range to give some psychoacoustic emphasis to the graceful bottom and mid end.

 

HD650 by contrast is considered dark, but is really midrange centtric, brighter than HE-400, but darker than most anything else.

post #2287 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

Welcome to Head-Fi circa 2006.... ;)

 

So what's your banned account again?

 

wink_face.gif

post #2288 of 6020

Here's a tentative but pretty conclusive conclusion to the argument of why the HE400s treble is so mysterious and "bright" / "extremely dark" / "sparkly" and whatnot.

 

 

"I think they sound dark*. Others have said they sound bright. Having had some time to listen to the HE400 in my own home, the truth is that the HE-400 are a little bit of both. I know it doesn't sound possible, but let me explain. There's a broad upper midrange dip around 4k-5kHz. This is the opposite of the HD700 which has a massive peak in this area. 4k-5k tends to add some bite, energy, edge, and liveliness to recordings. The HD700 has way too much of it - a serious error of commission. The HE400 has too little of it - an less serious error of omission. However, the HE400 also has a good amount of treble. The 10kHz definition area is not recessed at all. There also seems to be quite a lot of air or high treble in the last octave. So there you go. It's laid-back because of the upper-mids are dipped. It's bright because the mid and upper treble are somewhat raised." - purrin

 

 

He provided FR and CSD curves to correspond to that analysis of HE400 treble.

post #2289 of 6020

Thank you IEMcrazy & jerg

 

From that curve it looks like this would sound alot like some IEMs i'm currently using: http://en.goldenears.net/8861 , although there is a more pronounced peak at 10k.  What frequency is occupied by the highs of a violin? What about that 4k-5k dip we see on the FR of the HE-400s?

post #2290 of 6020

The fundamentals of the violin as well as lot a lot of other instruments reside in the mids between 250hz and 2khz, but a lot of stuff has harmonics extending to 10khz.


Edited by TMRaven - 7/18/12 at 8:08pm
post #2291 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenlongs View Post

Thank you IEMcrazy & jerg

 

From that curve it looks like this would sound alot like some IEMs i'm currently using: http://en.goldenears.net/8861 , although there is a more pronounced peak at 10k.  What frequency is occupied by the highs of a violin? What about that 4k-5k dip we see on the FR of the HE-400s?

The absolute bottom of the valley in the upper mids / lower treble (centering around 4~5kHz) is partially an artifact of the measurement, as seen by the CSD plots. The peak is at 14kHz which is just before our hearing completely rolls off, so its the "sparkle" in music rather than the meat of the treble that's amplified, the 10kHz is at a moderate level, if you compare against the levels in mids or bass.

post #2292 of 6020

Ah, the "Darkness" talk resurfaces about the HE-400. confused.gif

 

As an update, the Audio-GD NFB-12 was at home for me yesterday when I arrived.  It pairs beautifully well with the HE-400s.  I'm trying to flip back and forth between the NFB-12 and the Little Dot I+ / Music Streamer combinations.  I feel as though I'm stuck as to what to do.  However, on some Patricia Barber, I did detect a small bit of sibilence trying to appear with the NFB-12, where it wasn't with the Little Dot I+ / Music Streamer combination.  However, I also have to note that I have not lifted the lid on the NFB-12 yet to "adjust" any of the filters.

 

Just a few short weeks ago, I realize that I was pretty solid in my standing behind the offerings from Yamaha regarding the stereo receivers and integrated amplifiers.  However, the recent dedicated headphone amps and DACs that I've been working with along with the laptop, Foobar and the Wasapi plug-in, has brought another dimension into my listening.  I still love the Yamaha gear when it comes to using speaker taps.  But, I am showing love for the headphone amps and DACs as I sit in the study with the laptop and my comfortable listening chair.

 

Yesterday evening was odd, though.  When I got home, there were two boxes.  One had me scratching my head, so I had to open it and see what was in there.  Somewhere along the line, I purchased a Nuforce uDAC 2, to pair with the Little Dot I+.  Jeez, things are getting crazy and just enjoy the music.

 

For those of you that enjoy "The Civil Wars" duo, they have a free live album on their Web site that you can download.  The songs covered consist of about 80% from their studio album.  However, they also have a couple others - one of which, is a Leonard Cohen cover song.  Well worth the free download.

post #2293 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

Ah, the "Darkness" talk resurfaces about the HE-400. confused.gif

 

 

Well, at least for me, that talk has concluded, since the measurements seem to explain everything.

 

Its simply a recessed lower treble, moderate mid-treble, and elevated upper treble.

 

This is rare in headphones (another notably similar treble is Stax SR007), so it conveniently explains why people are ambiguous and puzzled about explaining how the treble is in subjective terms.

post #2294 of 6020

Measurements shmeasurements. Enjoy the phones. biggrin.gif

post #2295 of 6020
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Measurements shmeasurements. Enjoy the phones. biggrin.gif

 

Can a man not delve into both enjoyment and knowledge (however limited that may be) in this hobby?

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