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FAQ About E17 - Page 7

post #91 of 159

I need some help explaining what "LO BYPASS" really means for SQ when docking into the E09k? I of course understand that the volume control and equalizer on the E17 won't work when it's on, as the signal is a fixed line out and the FiiO E17 is working in DAC only mode.

 

But what does it mean to use the E17 as a pre-amp instead? If we don't consider the ability to use the equalizer or volume control, to just have it at a fixed volume (preferably 60/60) as a pre-amp? Is that just bonkers, when I can use it as a DAC only? Is it generally stupid to connect two amps in a serial fashion if you don't absolutely have to?

 

Do I gain something SQ-wise by using it as a pre-amp?

 

I would love some input here!

post #92 of 159

Double amping is generally not a good idea, distortion will be increased.

post #93 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupitreas View Post

Double amping is generally not a good idea, distortion will be increased.

This. You want one single amp with the amount of power you need.

 

However I have resorted to double amping in an attempt to get more volume out of my SE-700s and didn't hear too much 'bleh' in the sound.

post #94 of 159

Ah, thanks for your answers! Yes, I figured something along those lines. I did eventually settle on the DAC-only mode after some switching back and forth, with the device turned on. It's really quite noticeable. It's just really disturbing that the FiiO E17 resets its gain setting to 6 dB every time you flip the LO BYPASS switch...

 

I must say though, I miss the clarity of the mids of the sound of the E17 when it's operating only as a DAC with the E09k. It's a lot 'darker'.

post #95 of 159

Hello E17 Users:

 

I have some concerns about the automatic input mode selection with the E17's current firmware release. I am writing this to document my experience for other Head-Fi'ers and for FiiO to have a look at, just in case other E17 user's are scratching their collective heads about why their input mode keeps changing when "docking" the E17 while using the "OPT" input mode...

 

FiiO, I hope you are able to read this and find a way to patch and fix & release an updated firmware revision for the E17 Alpen DAC/Amplifier to eliminate this glaring issue.

 

 

This is some info regarding issues with the E17 and "docking". Primarily the issue is with "automatic" input mode selection, or the LACK of "correct" input mode selection for OPT when the input stream is ACTUALLY SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical).:

 

The Dock(s) that affect the E17 and exhibit this "abnormal" or "non-expected" usage behavior are: L7 Line-Out Dock, and E09K (and I would assume that the E9 and any other FiiO Dock device that the E17 can plug into would cause this), however I can only confirm, due to User Reports about the L7, and E09K at the time of this writing.

 

 

Expected Behavior:

 

You plug the E17 into a "Dock", OR  you plug in an L7 "Line-Out Dock" into the FiiO Dock Port of the E17. You would then expect the E17 to "automatically" detect, select, and "LOCK" the _correct_ input mode (in the case of SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical bitstreams, where you already have the input mode set to "OPT" prior to "docking"), and switch on the input stream to your selected volume settings, "open" the audio stream, and begin playback (if the audio stream is "playing" currently).

 

 

Actual Behavior:

 

You plug the E17 into a "Dock", or you plug in an L7 "Line-Out Dock" into the FiiO Dock Port of the E17. You would then expect the E17 to "automatically" detect, select, and "LOCK" the _correct_ input mode (in the case of SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical bitstreams, where you already have the input mode set to "OPT" prior to "docking"), then you "dock" and surprise surprise, the E17 for no apparent reason you can fathom, changes the input mode from the _correct_ "OPT" input mode to the _incorrect_ "USB" input mode instead of confirming the _correct_ "OPT" input mode and providing the "LOCK" status message.

 

 

Why this is "BAD":

 

The E17 is very very versatile. It is conversely, NOT a swiss-army-knife requiring a PHD, or some other college degree to actually operate. It barely requires you to look at the manual more than once in most cases. It's more of a "simple yet multifacted tool" than "some complicated toolbox with a bunch of thingers you have to remember how to use". I'll take this moment to say, "Thank You, FiiO."

 

 

Here's "Why" this "behavior" I'm describing, documenting, and pointing out is "bad" for the overall utility of the device and its User Experience; It breaks the "Dead Simple to Use" paradigm.:

 

 

 

Here's HOW:

 

EACH time you "dock" the E17 you MUST MANUALLY re-select the _correct_ input mode. Again, with the E17's current firmware, EACH TIME you "dock" the E17, it WILL SWITCH input modes IF you are using an SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical) bitstream, and have the input mode _correctly_ set to "OPT" on the E17 _BEFORE_ "docking"WHEN you "dock" the E17 will _incorrectly_ SWITCH input modes FROM "OPT" to "USB" instead of providing the "LOCK" status message confirmation. THEN YOU ARE FORCED to MANUALLY re-set the input mode from the _incorrect_ input mode of "USB" back to the _correct_ input mode of "OPT" to regain access to the SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical) bitstream, which is usually Already Playing, and this forces you to Miss Portions Of Your Audio Content, which is a "very bad behavior" from a usability standpoint.

 

 

How this Affects ME, and How I think it Affects MOST USERS (In General):

 

Okay well I suppose I would have to call the behavior I have described, from the failure to "LOCK" onto the existing "OPT" signal, to the incorrect switching to "USB" input, being forced to manually reselect the proper input, and missing whole chunks of ongoing audio, while being inconvenienced by something that should never have happened in the first place a pretty severe and glaring !! FLAW !! on an otherwise relatively "perfect" / "braindead simple" to use device.

 

A few other adjectives I would use to describe the E17 overall are that it is attractive, stays-out-of-your-way kind of "tool" for generally fantastic sounding, versatile, inexpensive, and (aside from this GLARING issue) headache-free audio use that is easily reccomendable to newbies or experienced users. It would be nice to see this problem fixed. I think anybody who has had the misfortune of encountering this problem would like it fixed also.
 

 

 

For The Record:

 

I would like to state to the Head-Fi community and to FiiO that the E17 Alpen has become an indespensible day-to-day device (especially for netbooks / laptops / iRiver H120/140 devices) that I find tremendously usable, useful, and enjoyable. Not to mention I think it sounds rather good, irregardless of its pricepoint. Most pleasing is the cleanliness of the sound (for its price/perf ratio & implementation) and the digital EQ with programmable independent bass AND treble levels is quite uniqe and fun. Thanks, FiiO.

post #96 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLACvest View Post

Hello E17 Users:

 

I have some concerns about the automatic input mode selection with the E17's current firmware release. I am writing this to document my experience for other Head-Fi'ers and for FiiO to have a look at, just in case other E17 user's are scratching their collective heads about why their input mode keeps changing when "docking" the E17 while using the "OPT" input mode...

 

FiiO, I hope you are able to read this and find a way to patch and fix & release an updated firmware revision for the E17 Alpen DAC/Amplifier to eliminate this glaring issue.

 

 

This is some info regarding issues with the E17 and "docking". Primarily the issue is with "automatic" input mode selection, or the LACK of "correct" input mode selection for OPT when the input stream is ACTUALLY SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical).:

 

The Dock(s) that affect the E17 and exhibit this "abnormal" or "non-expected" usage behavior are: L7 Line-Out Dock, and E09K (and I would assume that the E9 and any other FiiO Dock device that the E17 can plug into would cause this), however I can only confirm, due to User Reports about the L7, and E09K at the time of this writing.

 

 

Expected Behavior:

 

You plug the E17 into a "Dock", OR  you plug in an L7 "Line-Out Dock" into the FiiO Dock Port of the E17. You would then expect the E17 to "automatically" detect, select, and "LOCK" the _correct_ input mode (in the case of SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical bitstreams, where you already have the input mode set to "OPT" prior to "docking"), and switch on the input stream to your selected volume settings, "open" the audio stream, and begin playback (if the audio stream is "playing" currently).

 

 

Actual Behavior:

 

You plug the E17 into a "Dock", or you plug in an L7 "Line-Out Dock" into the FiiO Dock Port of the E17. You would then expect the E17 to "automatically" detect, select, and "LOCK" the _correct_ input mode (in the case of SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical bitstreams, where you already have the input mode set to "OPT" prior to "docking"), then you "dock" and surprise surprise, the E17 for no apparent reason you can fathom, changes the input mode from the _correct_ "OPT" input mode to the _incorrect_ "USB" input mode instead of confirming the _correct_ "OPT" input mode and providing the "LOCK" status message.

 

 

Why this is "BAD":

 

The E17 is very very versatile. It is conversely, NOT a swiss-army-knife requiring a PHD, or some other college degree to actually operate. It barely requires you to look at the manual more than once in most cases. It's more of a "simple yet multifacted tool" than "some complicated toolbox with a bunch of thingers you have to remember how to use". I'll take this moment to say, "Thank You, FiiO."

 

 

Here's "Why" this "behavior" I'm describing, documenting, and pointing out is "bad" for the overall utility of the device and its User Experience; It breaks the "Dead Simple to Use" paradigm.:

 

 

 

Here's HOW:

 

EACH time you "dock" the E17 you MUST MANUALLY re-select the _correct_ input mode. Again, with the E17's current firmware, EACH TIME you "dock" the E17, it WILL SWITCH input modes IF you are using an SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical) bitstream, and have the input mode _correctly_ set to "OPT" on the E17 _BEFORE_ "docking"WHEN you "dock" the E17 will _incorrectly_ SWITCH input modes FROM "OPT" to "USB" instead of providing the "LOCK" status message confirmation. THEN YOU ARE FORCED to MANUALLY re-set the input mode from the _incorrect_ input mode of "USB" back to the _correct_ input mode of "OPT" to regain access to the SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical) bitstream, which is usually Already Playing, and this forces you to Miss Portions Of Your Audio Content, which is a "very bad behavior" from a usability standpoint.

 

 

How this Affects ME, and How I think it Affects MOST USERS (In General):

 

Okay well I suppose I would have to call the behavior I have described, from the failure to "LOCK" onto the existing "OPT" signal, to the incorrect switching to "USB" input, being forced to manually reselect the proper input, and missing whole chunks of ongoing audio, while being inconvenienced by something that should never have happened in the first place a pretty severe and glaring !! FLAW !! on an otherwise relatively "perfect" / "braindead simple" to use device.

 

A few other adjectives I would use to describe the E17 overall are that it is attractive, stays-out-of-your-way kind of "tool" for generally fantastic sounding, versatile, inexpensive, and (aside from this GLARING issue) headache-free audio use that is easily reccomendable to newbies or experienced users. It would be nice to see this problem fixed. I think anybody who has had the misfortune of encountering this problem would like it fixed also.
 

 

 

For The Record:

 

I would like to state to the Head-Fi community and to FiiO that the E17 Alpen has become an indespensible day-to-day device (especially for netbooks / laptops / iRiver H120/140 devices) that I find tremendously usable, useful, and enjoyable. Not to mention I think it sounds rather good, irregardless of its pricepoint. Most pleasing is the cleanliness of the sound (for its price/perf ratio & implementation) and the digital EQ with programmable independent bass AND treble levels is quite uniqe and fun. Thanks, FiiO.

Oh... how annoying :/ I wonder if the E7 would do this with the E9...

 

Also try to keep your formatting to a minimum and be less verbose: That was hard to read >__>

post #97 of 159

I've been having issues getting an answer regarding how I should go about with my warranty claim on my E17 purchased in April.  I've contacted Fiio directly, and while I received a reply with steps to follow, I have not heard back from them after 7 weeks after having sent what was asked from me.  I've already sent 5 additional follow up email from 2 email addresses, but no reply.

 

I've contacted Micca Store, where I bought the unit from, since Fiio's policy page stated "During the warranty period, FiiO will replace or repair defective products returned to FiiO or a retail shop you purchased."  They said that they don't accept warranty submissions, though I have the option of using their extended exchange program, for a 35 dollar fee.

 

Is there any other place I might be able to contact for this warranty work, or will I have to just do that extended exchange program from micca since Fiio isn't getting back to me?  I'm actually wondering why micca isn't honoring Fiios claim that I can do a claim with them. Or do I have to wait for Fiio to contact them for me?  Although I suppose I will still have to send to unit to china even if Fiio gets back to me, so I'm paying either way.I thought that I would be safe when it comes to warranty work with Fiio, seeing Fiio's big push for approved stores and authenticity checks.


Edited by MadBMan - 10/24/12 at 7:35pm
post #98 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post

Oh... how annoying :/ I wonder if the E7 would do this with the E9...

 

Also try to keep your formatting to a minimum and be less verbose: That was hard to read >__>


Yeah, takato14, sorry about the formatting and such, however it is a very SPECIFIC problem, and I wanted to be precise. "Bug Report" type details tend not to be so, succinct when the problem is an involved one. Although, I wasn't intentionally making the formatting intentionally visually irritating or anything. If you weren't interested, you could have skipped past it all. I appreciate your honest feedback though. No harm, no foul.

post #99 of 159

You did say the music is 'usually already playing,' so why not pause/stop the music before you dock it, connect your line-out or pop it into the E09K, switch it to the correct input, and THEN hit play. Would this remedy the problem? Another idea is to send Fiio a message and ask them if they can fix this in the firmware for the E17 - I agree that it would be cooler if it would do what you wanted it to in that situation and it doesn't seem to be out of the realm of possibility with a firmware update. If my first suggestion works, let us know, eh? Thanks for sharing your input - it may help to improve an already dandy product.

post #100 of 159

Hey guys, can the E17 be operated from usb, without constantly charging the battery? I mean once it is charged, does it switch to usb operation automatically? Or it uses and thus depletes the battery quickly?

Thanks,
zoltan

post #101 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallom View Post

Hey guys, can the E17 be operated from usb, without constantly charging the battery? I mean once it is charged, does it switch to usb operation automatically? Or it uses and thus depletes the battery quickly?

Thanks,
zoltan

As for my E7, it's constantly charging if it's plugged into a USB port. If the battery is done charging it switches and operates off the USB port instead of the battery. I doubt the E17 is any different in this sense.

post #102 of 159

Thanks takato.

post #103 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallom View Post

Thanks takato.

Happy to help.

post #104 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post

You did say the music is 'usually already playing,' so why not pause/stop the music before you dock it, connect your line-out or pop it into the E09K, switch it to the correct input, and THEN hit play. Would this remedy the problem? Another idea is to send Fiio a message and ask them if they can fix this in the firmware for the E17 - I agree that it would be cooler if it would do what you wanted it to in that situation and it doesn't seem to be out of the realm of possibility with a firmware update. If my first suggestion works, let us know, eh? Thanks for sharing your input - it may help to improve an already dandy product.

Agreed, and yes, that manual pause/stop of music prior to docking will prevent missing sections of music while or during docking. Agreed. However the real issue is the device swapping input modes without the user expressly or intentionally selecting a change in input mode. That is a case of unanticipated/unexpected/unwanted behavior. It is contrary to the concept of "I have my device set to input "OPT", it should remain on "OPT" until i again press the input button to select a different input mode". It breaks logic.

 

Consequently, I did send feiao, of FiiO a couple of PMs back and forth about the firmware behavior, possibly creating, and maybe releasing an update. It appears they are mulling over the possibility of modifying the behavior of the firmware for future batches/revisions of E17 at some future point. The Messages communicated that FiiO will most likely not be releasing a backwards compatible or user-flashable firmware update. This is probably due to some constraint in the design of the device. I'm no engineer, and I didn't pester him with technical details on that point. I simply communicated that a modification of current behavior with SPDIF/TOSLINK (Optical) input mode would be of interest to many users surprised by the behavior of the mode change on docking, myself included.

 

Thanks for the helpful suggestion and constructive input on the topic. I'm hoping that FiiO can create, and implement a firmware update in the future. It would be nice, if the situation is one that it is impossible for users to flash the firmware they develop to modify the E17 input mode, that maybe we can send our existing E17's back to FiiO to have them update the firmware at the factory (fee-based service).

 

I'm guessing they'd have to partially disassemble the device to access the firmware chip or terminal? Maybe that is why it is not "user flashable" or maybe the firmware is in a ROM chip that would have to be replaced, This last line of thinking is purely conjecture.

post #105 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallom View Post

Hey guys, can the E17 be operated from usb, without constantly charging the battery? I mean once it is charged, does it switch to usb operation automatically? Or it uses and thus depletes the battery quickly?

Thanks,
zoltan

My E17 is set to "USB CHG    ON" which means it will charge the battery while it is plugged in to the USB port of a computer. When it is connected and charging, it may ALSO be used for audio playback. You are NOT forced to choose between either charging your battery or listening to music. Charging while playing is handled automatically. This is nice. :)

 

Als the E17 can be operated from USB without constantly charging the battery, though you would need to toggle the "USB CHG" menu option to "USB CHG      OFF" for this, and then it won't sip power back into the battery. Some users have theories about whether or not this improves Audio or Signal quality for playback, and also if this improves battery discharge and lifetime characteristics. I haven't read up on any of this enough to form any opinions. As for my purposes, I find it convenient to know that it will recharge while plugged into a USB port, and not die while playing music while plugged into said USB port, even if it is playing music.

 

You may have different expectations. In any case I hope I was able to answer your questions well enough.

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