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post #736 of 999

What interconnect cables do you guys recommend? I've seen members saying that the balanced-output is better than rca for the D18. So I'm looking to get pair of xlr-rca interconnect cable that's not too expensive, and I'm wondering if you guys have any recommendations.

 

This is what I found from Moon-Audio, any thoughts?

http://www.moon-audio.com/cardas-crosslink-custom-built-interconnects.html

 

I'm currently running a little Qinpu A6000 MKII tube amp, which it doesn't have balanced inputs, and a pair of Polk Audio RTI6 bookshelf speakers. Do you guys think the D18 would be overkill for my current setup?

 

I might ditch the RTI6 later in the future (if my wallet allows xD), for a pair of entry level B&W 685s bookshelf. But I'm planning on keeping the Qinpu for sure, since I don't have any plans for full size speakers.

 

Anyways, do you guys think the D18 is a good start?

post #737 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Unfortunately I live in UK though.

 

Looks like there is an authorized Yulong dealer in Germany - PC Hifi Shop, or you can buy from Tamaudio, which offers a 12 month warranty.


Edited by WestLander - 1/23/13 at 3:40pm
post #738 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestLander View Post

 

Looks like there is an authorized Yulong dealer in Germany - PC Hifi Shop

That's where I purchased my D18 and my M-Stage. Never had any problems with this dealer. The D18 came with a free Lappkabel Ölflex Power Cord, it's really big and heavy! They also have the A18, but unfortunately not the U18 and P18.

post #739 of 999

I'm thinking about buying this DAC, but it will definitely get a signal from my TV's SPDIF out and I'm afraid to hear drop-outs, clicks and such.

Is this just an issue with anything over 16/44.1? I don't think I will run into problems then - my TV doesn't ever deliver more than that.

But should the Sabre D18 not work well with my TV, then I will have a look at the Gungnir (which apparantly will, and I quote, "decrapify" every crappy source), Metrum Octave or similar.

post #740 of 999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurui View Post

I'm thinking about buying this DAC, but it will definitely get a signal from my TV's SPDIF out and I'm afraid to hear drop-outs, clicks and such.

Is this just an issue with anything over 16/44.1? I don't think I will run into problems then - my TV doesn't ever deliver more than that.

But should the Sabre D18 not work well with my TV, then I will have a look at the Gungnir (which apparantly will, and I quote, "decrapify" every crappy source), Metrum Octave or similar.

 

Unfortunately, there's no real way to know without trying a D18 with your particular TV. I imagine it would be fine with 16/44.1 but you never know. I doubt SPDIF signal integrity was a high priority when that TV was designed (any TV for that matter). 

post #741 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

Unfortunately, there's no real way to know without trying a D18 with your particular TV. I imagine it would be fine with 16/44.1 but you never know. I doubt SPDIF signal integrity was a high priority when that TV was designed (any TV for that matter). 

On that note, is there any way to clean up a SPDIF signal? Like:

 

source SPDIF out -> magical jitter reducing object -> Yulong D18 SPDIF in.

post #742 of 999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiR3D View Post

On that note, is there any way to clean up a SPDIF signal? Like:

 

source SPDIF out -> magical jitter reducing object -> Yulong D18 SPDIF in.

 

Nothing new that I can think of - these days it's usually built in to the device. Back in the day you had Audio Alchemy, Monarchy, Camelot Dragon Pro, and some others. 

post #743 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurui View Post

I'm thinking about buying this DAC, but it will definitely get a signal from my TV's SPDIF out and I'm afraid to hear drop-outs, clicks and such.

Is this just an issue with anything over 16/44.1? I don't think I will run into problems then - my TV doesn't ever deliver more than that.

But should the Sabre D18 not work well with my TV, then I will have a look at the Gungnir (which apparantly will, and I quote, "decrapify" every crappy source), Metrum Octave or similar.

If your tv can output PCM through it's Digital Outs, then yes.  You'll hear stereo.

post #744 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

Nothing new that I can think of - these days it's usually built in to the device. Back in the day you had Audio Alchemy, Monarchy, Camelot Dragon Pro, and some others. 

Thats actually rather annoying. So I have to use a USB to SPDIF converter, or buy a motherlessly expensive CD player or Digital player/Streamer because the Yulong doesn't have and jitter reduction built in.

 

I find that, quite aggravating. And it limits the uses of the DAC, and at the price of good digital sources I may aswell buy a Digital source with a built in DAC. 

 

Kinda peeved.

 

IMO the DAC should control and cater all that, I want to be able to plug in my crappy blu ray player, and use my blu ray to stream music over the network, and leave all the signal cleaning to the DAC, but now I can't.

 

Not be a drama queen, because I really want the D18, but this just limits its usage for me so much that it equates to a lost sale.

 

Great, now I need to find a new smooth sounding DAC for around $1000, that does cater for crappy sources.


Edited by WiR3D - 1/27/13 at 2:39am
post #745 of 999

Audiolab Mdac and Rega Dac would prob be the 2 best ones at that price.

post #746 of 999

Ok, seems that I won't get the Yulong. Oh well. Easier to decide then - it's either the Musical Fidelity M1 or the Schiit Gungnir then :) depending on what I want to spend on it!

post #747 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiR3D View Post

Thats actually rather annoying. So I have to use a USB to SPDIF converter, or buy a motherlessly expensive CD player or Digital player/Streamer because the Yulong doesn't have and jitter reduction built in.
Lets be clear here. The D18 does have jitter reduction built in. However its the nature of the Sabre chip itself that requires a high quality signal to lock onto so it can perform properly.
post #748 of 999
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post


Lets be clear here. The D18 does have jitter reduction built in. However its the nature of the Sabre chip itself that requires a high quality signal to lock onto so it can perform properly.

 

 

Exactly. Many designs use a separate DIR (aka digital audio interface receiver) chip like a Cirrus CS8416 or a Wolfson WM8805 or a TI DIR9001. Those chips are pretty good at locking on to any source, even a poor one. 

 

The D18 (and some other DACs) instead goes with the built in DIR functionality in the ES9018 chip. The drawback - it clearly isn't as good at recovering poor signals. The upside - it leads to lower overall jitter and removes any bottleneck in the signal path by delivering a more pure signal to the ES9018.

 

Something like a CS8416 (which is very common) uses a phase locked loop to recover a relatively low jitter clock from the incoming signal. Some designers consider that detrimental as they don't want additional processing to the signal. That particular chip results in an "average" jitter spec of 200ps being sent to the DAC, assuming a good design (poorly done, jitter could be far higher). The TI DIR9001 supposedly gets the jitter down to 50ps but is limited to 96kHz. The Wolfson WM8805 does 50ps and goes to 192kHz but is harder to properly implement.

 

With a most good CD transports, the SPDIF output has a jitter level somewhat higher than any of these numbers. So the DIR helps for the most part. But with a really good transport the native jitter on the output may be lower - for example, my JF Digital HDM-03S has around 100ps jitter on the SPDIF output. So if it sends a signal to a DAC using CS8416, that chip does more harm than good. And then there is the matter of top level USB to SPDIF converters - my Audiophilleo 1 with PurePower spits out an SPDIF signal with jitter in the single digit range. Any of the above mentioned DIR chips is going to mess with that pristine signal and make it worse. Consequently, the D18 shows the biggest improvement when using these sources as compared to my other DACs which have their own DIR chips. 

 

This of course is an overly simplistic way of explaining it, but hopefully it makes a bit of sense. Yulong didn't choose this design just to mess with us and make our transport choices difficult. 

post #749 of 999

I'm making another push to get the D18 up and running on my computer.  I ordered the U18.  Very nervous about how it will work with Windows 8 but it's worth a try.

post #750 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

 

Exactly. Many designs use a separate DIR (aka digital audio interface receiver) chip like a Cirrus CS8416 or a Wolfson WM8805 or a TI DIR9001. Those chips are pretty good at locking on to any source, even a poor one. 

 

The D18 (and some other DACs) instead goes with the built in DIR functionality in the ES9018 chip. The drawback - it clearly isn't as good at recovering poor signals. The upside - it leads to lower overall jitter and removes any bottleneck in the signal path by delivering a more pure signal to the ES9018.

 

Something like a CS8416 (which is very common) uses a phase locked loop to recover a relatively low jitter clock from the incoming signal. Some designers consider that detrimental as they don't want additional processing to the signal. That particular chip results in an "average" jitter spec of 200ps being sent to the DAC, assuming a good design (poorly done, jitter could be far higher). The TI DIR9001 supposedly gets the jitter down to 50ps but is limited to 96kHz. The Wolfson WM8805 does 50ps and goes to 192kHz but is harder to properly implement.

 

With a most good CD transports, the SPDIF output has a jitter level somewhat higher than any of these numbers. So the DIR helps for the most part. But with a really good transport the native jitter on the output may be lower - for example, my JF Digital HDM-03S has around 100ps jitter on the SPDIF output. So if it sends a signal to a DAC using CS8416, that chip does more harm than good. And then there is the matter of top level USB to SPDIF converters - my Audiophilleo 1 with PurePower spits out an SPDIF signal with jitter in the single digit range. Any of the above mentioned DIR chips is going to mess with that pristine signal and make it worse. Consequently, the D18 shows the biggest improvement when using these sources as compared to my other DACs which have their own DIR chips. 

 

This of course is an overly simplistic way of explaining it, but hopefully it makes a bit of sense. Yulong didn't choose this design just to mess with us and make our transport choices difficult. 

 

Does this same issue apply with the Audiolab Mdac as it uses the ESS chip as well?

 

Or is it just the yulong that cannot do poor signals as well such as freeview TV etc.?

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