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Yulong Sabre D18 thread: reviews, impressions, discussion (full review added 2/5) - Page 18

post #256 of 370
2/23/12 at 9:17pm

I ordered a set of allen keys so I should be able to open it up, tighten the transformer, then see if that does the trick. Unfortunately I'm on nights tonight till Monday morning, although I can probably inspect/tighten either tomorrow or Saturday before work if the keys arrive, but it'll probably be a few days before I'll plug everything back in. At least I know for certain the transformer is loose, and fixing that will hopefully fix the buzz. The signal... if that's still dropping, I'll try a new cable. If not, RMA!

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post #257 of 370
2/25/12 at 8:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somnambulist View Post

I ordered a set of allen keys so I should be able to open it up, tighten the transformer, then see if that does the trick. Unfortunately I'm on nights tonight till Monday morning, although I can probably inspect/tighten either tomorrow or Saturday before work if the keys arrive, but it'll probably be a few days before I'll plug everything back in. At least I know for certain the transformer is loose, and fixing that will hopefully fix the buzz. The signal... if that's still dropping, I'll try a new cable. If not, RMA!


Yeah it always takes me a while to find the right allen keys to open stuff... I've got a big set but I need to be more organized. Hopefully you can take care of it yourself - that would save some hassle. 

 

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post #258 of 370
2/25/12 at 12:18pm

Got the allen keys, opened it up, tightened transformer, checked PCB - nothing looked fried or out of the ordinary. Put it back together... it's still buzzing.

 

Going to have to send it back. :(

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post #259 of 370
2/25/12 at 12:21pm
Thread Starter 

Doh!

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post #260 of 370
2/25/12 at 12:51pm

Oh well. Hopefully it shouldn't be too painless to get this sorted. I'm still waiting for the davelgl - the eBay seller a couple of us have bought D18s from - to respond to my last message but I've just requested details for returning it - if I'm unlucky that unit will probably end up going back to Yulong for repair and I'll be without a DAC for a while, if I'm lucky that one will go back to Yulong and he'll send me a new one. Not sure how it works tbh, but **** happens, just have to roll with it.

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post #261 of 370
2/25/12 at 7:32pm

So how important do you guys think the Spdif signal being input to the D18 is? Important enough that a slightly lower tier USB Dac(like the D100) would be a better choice if I'm playing music from my computer?

 

Obviously I'm ignoring the fact that I could buy a USB to Spdif converter here.

 

 

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post #262 of 370
2/26/12 at 4:45pm

Do you plan on upgrading the rest of your set up? I liked the look of the Anedio D2, but it's double the cost of my Focal monitors, and given speakers are probably the no1 thing in the chain, it didn't seem very sensible from a system cost point of view. Similarly the D18 is quite a bit more than your speakers, so I'd think about whether you want to pay the extra for the D18 over the D100 given the rest of your gear. If you can afford it, go for it though.

 

If I do eventually go for something like the Event Opals in a few years, then I might think about upgrading myself, such are the perils of this hobby! 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0o0o0o View Post

So how important do you guys think the Spdif signal being input to the D18 is? Important enough that a slightly lower tier USB Dac(like the D100) would be a better choice if I'm playing music from my computer?

 

Obviously I'm ignoring the fact that I could buy a USB to Spdif converter here.

 

 


My D18 will be posted back to Germany tomorrow, got the reply from the seller. He said, barring it being a voltage thing (which I'm sure it isn't), he'll send me a new one so I shouldn't be without a DAC for too long. :)
 

 

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post #263 of 370
2/26/12 at 5:05pm

Definitely plan on upgrading the rest of my gear as well. But have to say that buying the D18 would be more about getting something that I won't consider upgrading for a looooooooong time.

 

Money isn't an problem once I decide I want something lol. 

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post #264 of 370
3/2/12 at 3:54pm

Hi, this is my first post, so go easy ok.

 

The whole upsampling thing...I've read here (in this thread) that the Sabre D18 does upsample, yet, at http://www.jetliveaudio.com/index.php?mo=28&id=533228] it says: "No-Over-Sampling: 16 bit or 24 bit data is processed at original bit depth. The better quality data source you use, the better performance you will have from this DAC - it will handle data resolution all the way to 32bit/500kHz!"

 

Am I confused and upsampling and oversampling are two entirely different things?

 

And if there is "no over-sampling" does that mean I'd benefit from buying a stand alone upsampler to crank the 16bit 44.1kHz from my CD player and iPod up to 24bit 192kHz prior to feeding it into my lovely Yulong?

 

Please forgive my ignorance!

 

Thank you.

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post #265 of 370
3/4/12 at 7:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahds View Post

Hi, this is my first post, so go easy ok.

 

The whole upsampling thing...I've read here (in this thread) that the Sabre D18 does upsample, yet, at http://www.jetliveaudio.com/index.php?mo=28&id=533228] it says: "No-Over-Sampling: 16 bit or 24 bit data is processed at original bit depth. The better quality data source you use, the better performance you will have from this DAC - it will handle data resolution all the way to 32bit/500kHz!"

 

Am I confused and upsampling and oversampling are two entirely different things?

 

And if there is "no over-sampling" does that mean I'd benefit from buying a stand alone upsampler to crank the 16bit 44.1kHz from my CD player and iPod up to 24bit 192kHz prior to feeding it into my lovely Yulong?

 

Please forgive my ignorance!

 

Thank you.


Don't feel ignorant - this is a very confusing topic and much has been written/said to try and explain it. There are countless links available to help your understanding - here are a few:

 

http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio

 

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/344/index.html

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/284391/oversampling-vs-upsampling

 

As it applies to the D18 and most devices using the ESS ES9018 chips (with a few exceptions, designs that specifically use their own proprietary filtering process), I think what they meant to say was that there is no UPSAMPLING chip ahead of the DAC. So data gets accepted and processed at whatever rate the original file contains. Inside the ES9018, there is a patented process at work which does involve upsampling/oversampling, but it works somewhat different than other chips. I'm not even sure I completely understand it, and it seems that ESS doesn't want to educate people (to protect their intellectual property I guess). 

 

 

 

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post #266 of 370
3/4/12 at 11:24am

Well, the D18 arrived safely back to the seller/shop. Initially he thought it was dead, but it was his power cable. He went to get a spare and I haven't heard back yet. Hopefully it will buzz noticably for him then I can get a new one. I keep looking at the Anedio D2 because of the built in volume control, but I couldn't justify the price relative to my other gear (i.e way more than my speakers), and from what I've read the Level Pilot does it's job very well as a transparent passive control except for imbalance at very low volume (lower than listening level, even in the evening). Getting withdrawl not being able to listen to music and my Focals sitting there, silently, mocking me.

 

Any updates from the fuse crowd btw? Blown your D18s up yet? :P

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post #267 of 370
3/4/12 at 1:25pm

project86 - thanks for your understanding response. I'm still a little unsure as to whether I'd benefit from using an external upsampler (at least I know the difference now) with my Sabre D18. I'm considering the Musiland SRC10 http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Product/show/id/146 I'm in the UK and it'd mean ordering one from China, so I can't exactly try it out and return it, like I could if a localish hifi store sold them.

This said, never having owned anything remotely hi-end and coming from an Arcam rDac, the Sabre D18 is blowing me away. It's just that the prospect of improving things still further is kinda exciting. An upsampler, would, of course, be my final upgrade...

 

The bit I've quoted - "The better quality data source you use, the better performance you will have from this DAC" - implies I would benefit from an upsampler but I don't know it it's talking about the original source specifically,eg. a 24bit download or another 24bit source, or if an upsampled 16bit source is essentially 'the same' for such purposes.

 

My other 'fear' is that the Sabre D18 is so clever that although technically the performance would be improved by an upsampler, there would be little or no audible difference at the listening stage.

 

Thanks again for your help.

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post #268 of 370
3/6/12 at 9:03am

Bad news:

 

 

 

Quote:
Hi Paul,
 
I tested it two days, bad news.
 
We have tested the D18 in China previously and we thought the transformer fits european standard. 
 
Because of many capacitors in machine, by powering up, we will hear the transformer hum, but it should disappear in a shot time.(It didn't in my room)
 
Your case told me that, maybe we should upgrad the transformer from 220v to 230V or even higher.
 
I asked the the partner to send me 2 D18 for testing. Same result. And I asked two customers in Germany and Japan, they told me that, the transformer hum will disappear. This is not good, in this country works, the other country not. 
 
I also changed the transformer with a normal one (usually for entry class), I can't hear any noise, but at the same time, the music has been pulled back.So this is not the solution.
 
I have discussed with Yulong today, they should upgrad the transformer or build filter in it. And send me the sample，which I can test them not only in China.
 
I will not recommend you to buy any stable power supply. The problem is from our machine, so we have to solve the problem.
 
Sorry for the inconvenience. I will refund you the money. (I don't think sending you another D18 will solve the problem)
 
Please also tell me how much did the pacel cost you. I will also refund you the postage.
 
I will try to fix this problem as soon as possible.
 
Best,
 

 

 

Damn... I dunno what to do now. I wanted a Sabre-based DAC to try, but the D18 was by far the most affordable, as well as having the balanced XLR outs. Going to have to think hard for a few days, but I don't know if I'm ready to drop £1k on an Anedio D2 or something (although if I did perhaps I could drop out of the 'DAC upgraditis' game. I dunno. :(

 

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post #269 of 370
3/6/12 at 9:28am

A second hand M-DAC maybe? Great sounding unit.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114612

 

 

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post #270 of 370
3/6/12 at 1:33pm

Voltage in UK is 230 only nominally. Where I live is about 240V, Stax amps in UK are set to 240V for example, the usual EU ones will hum. 

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