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post #98836 of 152087
I think China as a while is really interesting to study; from politics to engineering to manufacturing, their country is just so different from a lot of other countries.

Giant engineering projects like the Three Gorges Dam have always been of interest to me and was why I wanted to be a civil engineer at some point in my college career. On the other hand, the displacement of residents and the destruction of cultural/historical artifacts have always been a let down for me in terms of China's move to modernise. :/
post #98837 of 152087
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

I think China as a while is really interesting to study; from politics to engineering to manufacturing, their country is just so different from a lot of other countries.

Giant engineering projects like the Three Gorges Dam have always been of interest to me and was why I wanted to be a civil engineer at some point in my college career. On the other hand, the displacement of residents and the destruction of cultural/historical artifacts have always been a let down for me in terms of China's move to modernise. :/

Well, the importance of these places and artifacts are at the mercy of the govt so there's nothing we can do to change that.

post #98838 of 152087

Wow, the last place I would expect Kiel to get mentioned, is in an episode of Black Lagoon.

Great grammar btw....
Kiel is about a one hour ride away from where I live.
One of the ugliest cities I know.

The Black Lagoon pretty bad IMO. These lyrics....

post #98839 of 152087
I like ugly cities. How dare you sir!
post #98840 of 152087

What a weird translation :D
This "*****" there makes no sense at all xD
And they used "vom" instead of "von dem" which is also pretty unusual.
Still a highly enjoyable episode. Almost like watching Indiana Jones :P

post #98841 of 152087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post
 

You are probably right about all this, but I think that it is still a little bit different in Beijing.
The city lost all it's personality just because the Chinese government wants too keep up with the rest of the world, no matter what it costs.
Pointless prestige **** everywhere! We drove past another one of these "rich people ghettos" that was completely empty. Not a single person was living there because they don't have enough rich people to put in there! And instead of letting normal mortal people live there, they just closed the gate and let everything rot.
Dont't get me started on the government buildings. These things have a mile long front, but are only about 200 feet deep. Just to "impress" people.
Policemen and cameras everywhere.
They give a **** about the not so wealthy people.
Take this as an example:

This huge city is not able to provide to it's people a proper power grid.


This whole "tabula rasa" went a loooot smoother and carefully in Europe, HK and so on.
If China wants to catch up this bad and with means like this, the result is almost certainly going to look ugly. In more than one way.

 

A lot of this is also incorrect but modern type thinking that you are doing. I find this incredibly fascinating.

 

The fascinating part being how 'naturalized' people have become with ideas of the 'norm' and how they interpret it.

 

I could offer you a whole backstory on that type of thinking but that would take too long. So I'll just assume the POV of a heavilly biased person defending what it is that you see is happening in China. This is much easier to do than something incredibly abstract as to what it is that I am getting at.

 


ARgument:

The PRC like any government has to weigh and divert resources to everything and anything. The 'rich', industry and a lot of the wealthy are ways the PRC uses to stay ahead. If it wasn't for this, the PRC would have long been dead and the people and culture destroyed?

 

Go back 60+ years. China was literally being carved up by foreign countries. A big portion of China that you know it today was won back (through various ways). Foreign countries were carving up, and taking the people their as their own. Be it slaves, be it trying to convert them, or using them as a work force.

 

And thus, the PRC government itself has throughout the past and today, served as (in actuallity) the only thing that is and has kept Chinese culture. 
 
The ROC governmetn was failing and failed in its civil war due to its incredible mismanagements later on during their campaign of China. This basically means that the PRC literally was the only thing serving as the only thing keeping Chiense culture together 60-70 years ago to today.
 
Next let me ask you and let me force you to think for a moment. What if China (for the last 30 years) or for any point in time from the 70's to now didn't have this much money (that it gets from business and the now rich) or its strong military? You think the world, is simply going to let it be? 
 
With thiese examples in place, it is thus my argument that China and its culture today is indifusable from the PRC government in any way shape or form. Where the falling of the PRC government is a total disaster and destroyment of Chinese culture as my aarguments laid out above about foreign interests in carving up the country, and ROC failure to handle it.
 
With this being said, it should then be seen that everything you see is but a balancing act of any country. Especially China.
 

Now with that argument finished, it brings back to mind, the fascination that MiceBlue had with civil engineering. I have the same fascination with how people perceive the PRC.

 

My own thoughts on this is that it is incredibly double standarded for those to call out the PRC on its policies BUT at the same time they are also needed.

 

Why is this?

 

The PRC's policies have distinct corelations to the past. China's climate is so fascinating to think of. It's so modern, yet so undeveloped. This mainly happened due to rifts in the Culture Revolution, Great awakening and their policies during that time along with the lost generation. So what we have now is the WORLD imposing on the PRC modern ideals of how a modern nation should act as when the PRC isn't fully in this spot yet.

 

Now for biased argument:


 

The PRC, due to failure(arguable if it was a total failure) in domestic policy from 50's to 70's is actually still situated 'in the past'. 

 

Fully modernized countries(EU as the best example) are the men on their high horses looking down on the country when it in itself is not yet modernized. This double standard is mainly created due to China being so 'modern' with its main cities and rich tourist class that the world sees through media.

 

In the end, it is incredibly presumptious for any person to blow off the PRC's policies due to the fact that most countries were like that in their own pasts and that the PRC right now currently is on the path of modernizing along that path.


Ending the biased argument above, we now enter into regular mode:

 

However, the problem then is that you shoul NEVER say that something is alright because another country followed it in the past. China can't just do as it pleases because other countries have done it in the past. And thus CRITICISM IS needed. Of course!!

 


OVERALL CONCLUSION

The world looks upon the PRC as a group of nations on their high horses. They all wield ultra modern opinions towards a country who isn't really there yet. THEY WON'T let China go back into isolation, and are thus forcing their own modern ideals onto countries today that don't follow the norm and thus the only option is for China to develop and have policies exactly as they see it. This is snobbish behavior as the PRC is undergoing a timeline very similar to their own in their own past. However, this does not mean that the PRC should not get criticized for what it does. It need criticism so it doesn't think everything is always ok. But when people criticze, they should realize and do it in a way that reminds them that their own histories are mirrored in what the PRC is doing, and thus should be a type of non biased constructive type.

post #98842 of 152087
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post
 

What a weird translation :D
This "*****" there makes no sense at all xD
And they used "vom" instead of "von dem" which is also pretty unusual.
Still a highly enjoyable episode. Almost like watching Indiana Jones :P

LOL. That plan name.

post #98843 of 152087
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

 

OVERALL CONCLUSION

The world looks upon the PRC as a group of nations on their high horses. They all wield ultra modern opinions towards a country who isn't really there yet. THEY WON'T let China go back into isolation, and are thus forcing their own modern ideals onto countries today that don't follow the norm and thus the only option is for China to develop and have policies exactly as they see it. This is snobbish behavior as the PRC is undergoing a timeline very similar to their own in their own past. However, this does not mean that the PRC should not get criticized for what it does. It need criticism so it doesn't think everything is always ok. But when people criticze, they should realize and do it in a way that reminds them that their own histories are mirrored in what the PRC is doing, and thus should be a type of non biased constructive type.

 

 



Wow, I feel like I just got scolded xD

I know very little of the details behind this topic, but if I am understanding you..... you are saying China is being pressured to be something that they are not, and are not even ready to be (a western-style modern/1st world country)?
post #98844 of 152087

 

post #98845 of 152087
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post


OVERALL CONCLUSION

The world looks upon the PRC as a group of nations on their high horses. They all wield ultra modern opinions towards a country who isn't really there yet. THEY WON'T let China go back into isolation, and are thus forcing their own modern ideals onto countries today that don't follow the norm and thus the only option is for China to develop and have policies exactly as they see it. This is snobbish behavior as the PRC is undergoing a timeline very similar to their own in their own past. However, this does not mean that the PRC should not get criticized for what it does. It need criticism so it doesn't think everything is always ok. But when people criticze, they should realize and do it in a way that reminds them that their own histories are mirrored in what the PRC is doing, and thus should be a type of non biased constructive type.

It's just in Chinas own interest to keep up (and to a certain extent catch up) with the rest of the world.
That's just how globalisation works.
The thing that is buggin me (and a loooot of other people) is how they go about this whole process. They are overdoing it. Too much too fast.
And opening themselves up to the rest of the world and still censoring news etc is another example of them seemingly not knowing how to "reform" themselves.
I don't think that the PRC is in a position where they have to fear to get outspaced by the rest of the world. But this success does not come from building pointless highways and other prestige nonsense.

I would love to offer some comparisons between the PRC and the other BRICS but sadly I don't really know enough about how they tackle this matter.

post #98846 of 152087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinarc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

 

OVERALL CONCLUSION

The world looks upon the PRC as a group of nations on their high horses. They all wield ultra modern opinions towards a country who isn't really there yet. THEY WON'T let China go back into isolation, and are thus forcing their own modern ideals onto countries today that don't follow the norm and thus the only option is for China to develop and have policies exactly as they see it. This is snobbish behavior as the PRC is undergoing a timeline very similar to their own in their own past. However, this does not mean that the PRC should not get criticized for what it does. It need criticism so it doesn't think everything is always ok. But when people criticze, they should realize and do it in a way that reminds them that their own histories are mirrored in what the PRC is doing, and thus should be a type of non biased constructive type.

 

 



Wow, I feel like I just got scolded xD

I know very little of the details behind this topic, but if I am understanding you..... you are saying China is being pressured to be something that they are not, and are not even ready to be (a western-style modern/1st world country)?

They were pressured. They aren't anymore. They have embraced it now, but because of how late they embraced it in the whole timeline of things. Most things aren't up to par to modern standards.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post
 

It's just in Chinas own interest to keep up (and to a certain extent catch up) with the rest of the world.
That's just how globalisation works.
The thing that is buggin me (and a loooot of other people) is how they go about this whole process. They are overdoing it. Too much too fast.
And opening themselves up to the rest of the world and still censoring news etc is another example of them seemingly not knowing how to "reform" themselves.
I don't think that the PRC is in a position where they have to fear to get outspaced by the rest of the world. But this success does not come from building pointless highways and other prestige nonsense.

I would love to offer some comparisons between the PRC and the other BRICS but sadly I don't really know enough about how they tackle this matter.

 

This clearly contradicts your general feel of culture however. You were talking about cultural roots and staying true, but are now making an argument for globalization?

 

This transition of thought and disconnect is also one of the things that also fascinates me as I study people today.

 

China wanted to stay to its roots in a more direct approach many decades ago. The decades of great domestic reform were a way of adding the new (communism/maoism/marxism) with traditional Chinese culture. This was the period of isolationsim it went through. The first USA president to visit China happened almost 3 decades after the PRC was founded. That's how long it was under isolationism to preserve its cultural roots.

 

---

"'They are overdoing it. Too much too fast."

 

One thing to understand about China is that it is extremely calculative and historical. What this means is that it uses an army of scholars and top analysts to look at China's past, present and future along with that of the USSR's and those of its old empire.

 

Chinese scholar thought right now is that it can't afford or try isolationism again. IT didn't work. China did it in its old historical times and it feel behind. China used to be at the head of the ancient world until it did this and BOOM. It did it again in the 50's to 70's with the pure Communisms. BBOOOOOOM.

 

PRC is now embracing modernization along with its old traditional roots in a complex way that incorporates what they know to do and to do it as much and as best as they can.

Why? Because if they don't, they will lose their country again.

 

Backstory first:

The great industrial modernization prorgrams of the Cultural and Great Leap Forward(mainly the GLF) added immense industrial capability to the PRC (at the cost of tens of millions of its people). Traditional culture within the PRC today is essentially intertwined with the idealism of the Communist era. 

 

With this being said then. We must then REALIZE that the world follows a very egotistical path. The world itself is a self minding, self motivated, selfish, and self interested character. Each country employs diplomacy as a way to get what it needs. Each country needs to bring home the bread in a sense. (very very simplicit way of thinking of modern countries goals)

 

The PRC thus uses a strategy of overdoing what it does best to stay ahead and to not be taken over by everything. 

 

Look at your fellow workers in every city and in every country. They do the same thing, they just want a job, a safe enviroment and to take home money to care for their families. The PRC has 1.4Billion people to look after in a sense. It needs to bring home the bread to its people in some way shape or form.

 

-----

Cencorship in the PRC is also a very nice idea. It reflects how people today all follow very different ideals than the past. Cencorship is just that. IT used to be a natural government function in many societies. Not in the way we know it now, but in the sense of the government having a play in everything.

 

Keep this in mind. People today are very sensationalist. Opening up China to the 'outside' when it wasn't ready creates a lot of problems for China. People today get and receive information without truly being informed about what is truly good. People today see something and believe it to be something 'right' but it isn't. The lost generation of China, and in the difference between modern China and old China thus is creating a gap in terms of people truly being ready for 'the world'. Cencorship is thus a way to keep the nation together and a way for the people to hopefully naturally move towards good political socialization of which they can then be ready for the 'media' they see.

 

However, the PRC isn't using cencorship fully in the way I am describing. It is much too hard to censor stuff until people become 100% politicaly socialized with great ideals. And thus it just does its iron wall of censorship.

 

This however, does have some pros to it. The pro's being that it shows one of the best points a government should ALWAYS make note of. 

THE GREATEST FEAR A GOVERNMENT SHOULD EVER HAVE. Should always be of its own people. The day the government stops fearing its people is going to be a very bad day. The US Government is showing a multitudes of signs of this. Where it has gotten away with so much injustice.

post #98847 of 152087

Damn it... I'm reading Kono Oozora ni, Tsubasa wo Hirogete now and I feel like Ageha's seiyuu is the same one who voiced Sumika from Muv Luv and Amane from Grisaia no Kajitsu. Especially since I read Grisaia right after Muv Luv... and now Kono Oozora ni right after Grisaia >.>. But I can't find and seiyuu list or credits for the game... /sigh. She's got to be one of my favorite, if not my absolute Seiyuu. 

 

And when I first heard Hotaru... I was like "SO CUTEEEE!!!"


Edited by thegunner100 - 12/26/13 at 5:13pm
post #98848 of 152087

On a less serious note... I just had the weirdest dream.

 

I was in the airport, which strangely morphed into some sort of concert in the middle. I then had to bring my ticket into this place for it to be processed. Except, I forgot to and it was too late. So I continued to walk to the security check area, a place I wasn't allowed to pass until my "ticket" was processed. Then for some reason, Gamagoori was next to me asking if I needed some help. I told him that I still had my ticket and he told me to put it on his chair. He then tried to use his authority as.. "Chief officer?" to get me past security, but they said I couldn't pass until my papers were processed. And, at the moment, it was only at 20% (I assume it started when I put it on his chair). 

 

 

Yea....

 

That was strange.

Gotta lay off the anime

post #98849 of 152087
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

This clearly contradicts your general feel of culture however. You were talking about cultural roots and staying true, but are now making an argument for globalization?

 

This transition of thought and disconnect is also one of the things that also fascinates me as I study people today.

 

China wanted to stay to its roots in a more direct approach many decades ago. The decades of great domestic reform were a way of adding the new (communism/maoism/marxism) with traditional Chinese culture. This was the period of isolationsim it went through. The first USA president to visit China happened almost 3 decades after the PRC was founded. That's how long it was under isolationism to preserve its cultural roots.

 

---

"'They are overdoing it. Too much too fast."

 

One thing to understand about China is that it is extremely calculative and historical. What this means is that it uses an army of scholars and top analysts to look at China's past, present and future along with that of the USSR's and those of its old empire.

 

Chinese scholar thought right now is that it can't afford or try isolationism again. IT didn't work. China did it in its old historical times and it feel behind. China used to be at the head of the ancient world until it did this and BOOM. It did it again in the 50's to 70's with the pure Communisms. BBOOOOOOM.

 

PRC is now embracing modernization along with its old traditional roots in a complex way that incorporates what they know to do and to do it as much and as best as they can.

Why? Because if they don't, they will lose their country again.

 

Backstory first:

The great industrial modernization prorgrams of the Cultural and Great Leap Forward(mainly the GLF) added immense industrial capability to the PRC (at the cost of tens of millions of its people). Traditional culture within the PRC today is essentially intertwined with the idealism of the Communist era. 

 

With this being said then. We must then REALIZE that the world follows a very egotistical path. The world itself is a self minding, self motivated, selfish, and self interested character. Each country employs diplomacy as a way to get what it needs. Each country needs to bring home the bread in a sense. (very very simplicit way of thinking of modern countries goals)

 

The PRC thus uses a strategy of overdoing what it does best to stay ahead and to not be taken over by everything. 

 

Look at your fellow workers in every city and in every country. They do the same thing, they just want a job, a safe enviroment and to take home money to care for their families. The PRC has 1.4Billion people to look after in a sense. It needs to bring home the bread to its people in some way shape or form.

 

-----

Cencorship in the PRC is also a very nice idea. It reflects how people today all follow very different ideals than the past. Cencorship is just that. IT used to be a natural government function in many societies. Not in the way we know it now, but in the sense of the government having a play in everything.

 

Keep this in mind. People today are very sensationalist. Opening up China to the 'outside' when it wasn't ready creates a lot of problems for China. People today get and receive information without truly being informed about what is truly good. People today see something and believe it to be something 'right' but it isn't. The lost generation of China, and in the difference between modern China and old China thus is creating a gap in terms of people truly being ready for 'the world'. Cencorship is thus a way to keep the nation together and a way for the people to hopefully naturally move towards good political socialization of which they can then be ready for the 'media' they see.

 

However, the PRC isn't using cencorship fully in the way I am describing. It is much too hard to censor stuff until people become 100% politicaly socialized with great ideals. And thus it just does its iron wall of censorship.

 

This however, does have some pros to it. The pro's being that it shows one of the best points a government should ALWAYS make note of. 

THE GREATEST FEAR A GOVERNMENT SHOULD EVER HAVE. Should always be of its own people. The day the government stops fearing its people is going to be a very bad day. The US Government is showing a multitudes of signs of this. Where it has gotten away with so much injustice.


I did not try to make an argument for globalisation.
Globalisation brings a lot of cons with it, but it's just a thing that is happening and I don't see how this course is going to change anywhere soon.
And again, a lot of other countries are going (and were going) through the same process the PRC is going through right now. Mainly the BRICS countries. It just seems to me that most of them are handling this whole "modernisation" thing better in a way don't loose their personality as much as China seems to do.

Are you sure that they did this to protect their culture? I'm not.
Do you think that is what North Korea is doing right now?

And what could that be? What is this thing that they are best at? I really don't think that they are anywhere close to being taken over by someone.

Who decides what is truly good? What is "right"? Do you want the people to decide that for themselves or do you think it is better for them to get fed with the news that the government lets slip through the iron wall? To me, this is all kinds of wrong. Of course a country needs to keep out watching what its people are up to, but the line between censorship etc and freedom of speech is anything but thin.

post #98850 of 152087

Well something I predicted like 4 episodes ago finally happened in Nagi no Asukara. Now we have 13 more episodes to find out what it all means haha.

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