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post #102556 of 149543

@ bowei's wall post

TL'DR ver. plz?

post #102557 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1o2r3i4s5 View Post
 

@ bowei's wall post

TL'DR ver. plz?

Sure

 

Media in general has come to a point where it is literally controlling people. And the Ukraine government - while having made bad decisions in some of the early moments of the protest - is for the most part in the right. Their decision to partner with Russia has future ramifications that would not only save the Ukraine economy right now, but also give Ukraine legitimate military 'aid'. The location of Ukraine right next to Russia and other Russian friendly countries as well as its former Soviet-association more or less Russian ties better than EU ties.

 

The current problem in the Ukraine - through a short version that isn't 100% accurate - was through radical groups and members of the public that would rather go EU-ties than Russia. It is unknown if the protestors know of the immediate problems of Eurodomain. Most of the Ukraine public supports the governments decision however. The protestors, while not in the mass minority, still represent a smaller percentage than those that prefer Russian-ties. 

 

Is that short enough? Need any clarification?

post #102558 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1o2r3i4s5 View Post
 

@ bowei's wall post

TL'DR ver. plz?

 

Politics, generally about the recent protests in Ukraine. Can't really tell any specifics, since I usually don't read such huge posts on mobile. They'll wait until I get on my PC...

 

Basically, nothing you might be interested in, I'd guess. :-P

post #102559 of 149543

Rewatching Code Geass right now

 

 

This is the stuff that anime needs.

post #102560 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinarc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post

 

I'm bad at making lists. Can't decide on an order.

 

I think you should really give Kokoro Connect a shot, seems like something you would enjoy.

I watched the first two episodes of it and kind of lost interest since it looked like it was just going to be a mediocre body-switching show.
Is there more to it?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

 

A large portion may not be violent, but they are condoning it. Watch the livestreams and videos. Random people in the back get 'caught up' in the moment and also run up to throw rocks. Them being in that general violent area with all the others also more or less puts them at fault. You may not have shot the man, but when you are screaming at your friend to pull the tirger or that the guy he is about to kill is a dipschiit. You aren't exactly free of any charges. 

 

Russian history with the Ukraine does make it a 'better' match in the sense that years of historical association and governmental types do help. Keep in mind that if the Ukraine went with Eurodomain, there would be a huge economic slump if not collapse.

 

A few years back, Putin publically said that any former Soviet state that joined up with NATO or the EU will and can face catastrophic consequences.

 

As a 3rd party person, manipulating media is as fun as watching anime. I see conflicts and the world as if I was floating in space, its something I've accustomed myself to do. In the sense that every thing that happens is just 'interesting'. This is REALLy the only actual way to look at conflicts.

 

BUT TODAY, globalization, and the pseudo natioanlization of media has created a class of people who rely on the propaganda they hear on TV to be their guide and holy master. They thus are not self-rational peoeple capable of worldly decisions today.

 

Here in America, every newspaper is writting in support of the hero's of the Ukraine and their non-violent protests that police and military are savagely killing and maiming wihtout any care int he world so that Ukraine can partner with Russia for nuclear weapons and to hide Taliban, and is denying so so many people of the Ukraine the right to join the Ukraine.

That's kind of true. If been to many many demonstrations in my life and I know too well how things like this can escalate. I'm always trying to stay away from these hardliners. Nothing but trouble and people with one-sided minds.
The opposition admited that at least two of the dead protesters were not killed by the police.

Given that is true, why are people even considering hooking up with the EU if their country would be tossed into darkness and despair?

Statements like this one make him so so much more unlikeable....but I have the feeling that he doesn't even care about what the rest of the world is thinking about him.

It really is. There is no right and wrong in politics, only more and less acceptable.

Which is super weird since they have all the informations one could ask for easily available to them. It seems so hard to avoid being swamped with news nowadays but somehow people still seem to manage being super not up-to-date with what is going on in the world.
For example some of my fellow CS students. They don't have the slightest idea what is going on in the world. Makes me want to slap them in the face.

Are we talking about Fox News or a serious news source like Wall Street Journal or New York Times?
Either way, that sounds horrible. The statements from the US government on this topic are waaay more harsh than the once coming from German politicians.

post #102561 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

Sure

 

Media in general has come to a point where it is literally controlling people. And the Ukraine government - while having made bad decisions in some of the early moments of the protest - is for the most part in the right. Their decision to partner with Russia has future ramifications that would not only save the Ukraine economy right now, but also give Ukraine legitimate military 'aid'. The location of Ukraine right next to Russia and other Russian friendly countries as well as its former Soviet-association more or less Russian ties better than EU ties.

 

The current problem in the Ukraine - through a short version that isn't 100% accurate - was through radical groups and members of the public that would rather go EU-ties than Russia. It is unknown if the protestors know of the immediate problems of Eurodomain. Most of the Ukraine public supports the governments decision however. The protestors, while not in the mass minority, still represent a smaller percentage than those that prefer Russian-ties. 

 

Is that short enough? Need any clarification?

Now you are the one who is saying borderline one-sided stuff :|

post #102562 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post
 

I watched the first two episodes of it and kind of lost interest since it looked like it was just going to be a mediocre body-switching show.
Is there more to it?

 

That's kind of true. If been to many many demonstrations in my life and I know too well how things like this can escalate. I'm always trying to stay away from these hardliners. Nothing but trouble and people with one-sided minds.
The opposition admited that at least two of the dead protesters were not killed by the police.

Given that is true, why are people even considering hooking up with the EU if their country would be tossed into darkness and despair?

Statements like this one make him so so much more unlikeable....but I have the feeling that he doesn't even care about what the rest of the world is thinking about him.

It really is. There is no right and wrong in politics, only more and less acceptable.

Which is super weird since they have all the informations one could ask for easily available to them. It seems so hard to avoid being swamped with news nowadays but somehow people still seem to manage being super not up-to-date with what is going on in the world.
For example some of my fellow CS students. They don't have the slightest idea what is going on in the world. Makes me want to slap them in the face.

Are we talking about Fox News or a serious news source like Wall Street Journal or New York Times?
Either way, that sounds horrible. The statements from the US government on this topic are waaay more harsh than the once coming from German politicians.

People don't know schiit today

 

Statistics show that people today don't know schiit about politics, ramifiactions, future effects, and what not today. Half the people in the Wall Street Progress probably didn't even know schiit.

 

Partnering with the EU won't throw it completely into despair obviously, but EU laws of economics would have huge ill effects on Ukraine economy. But if all goes as planned, it will come out fine. The problem with that is that nobody knows IF it will even go fine.

 

Putin is someone I look up to. Remember, no right and wrong. Putin's bad assery statements, and his recent actions in the last decade make him an icon for me. He does'nt fu***** hide that he will do whatever it takes and that he controls Russia. He doesn't hide it. He makes bad ass statements and gets stuff done. Russia's economy, and social life has improved by mangnitudes since he took office. He is the Arnold Swarchenegger of Russia. He will **** you up, and doesn't care. He will get his way and it will be done. However, the thing I love most about him is that he is a rationale being that makes compromises while still getting stuff done. Obviously, Russia still isn't completely reinvirogated, but compared to before he took office and before he became the ruler. Russia was a desolete place post 1991.

 

Fox News is the worst. but WSJ and NYT has bias as well. Fox News bias is much easier to pick out and call it as true bias. WSJ and especially the NYT use plausible deniability of bias. Their usage of bias can be argued to not be bias by them, but any historian will tell you that its bull schiit. 

 

Examples being that Fox News will literally feed you B.S that isn't true or analyzed upon, but they can get away with it due to USA laws about news corporations / entertainment industry. Read any article on Gay Marriage from Fox.

 

NYT will use spark words that instigate internal thought of something bad. They use carefully selected facts and info, and push the info on you using those 'spark' words and thus it creates images in your mind. The example being NYT and most Western media calling Russian and Chinese media as State Media all the time. This is plausible deniability in bias. They can argue that its true. Yes it is true, it is state media. HOWEVER, any analyzation into why they use the word and why they use it so prevelantly more or less yells Bias. State Media is a spark word that doesn't innately draw bad ideas or associations, but with globalization and indoctrination, has acome to incorporate something being bad. This creates the plausible deniability of bias. Because seriously, if they can call others state media for being owned by the government, I wonder what other countries can call the American media that feeds out of government hands./

post #102563 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post
 

Now you are the one who is saying borderline one-sided stuff :|

Yep, he asked for a TLDR so I'm summing up the key arguments that I am making, of which, since they are arguments will be one sided. 

 

I already gave a few different sides to the arguments in my previous long posts. He asked for a TLDR, so I gave him my side. But because I already included information in the 'main' stuff I wrote, I won't consider it as such.

post #102564 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

 

Putin is someone I look up to. Remember, no right and wrong. Putin's bad assery statements, and his recent actions in the last decade make him an icon for me. He does'nt fu***** hide that he will do whatever it takes and that he controls Russia. He doesn't hide it. He makes bad ass statements and gets stuff done. Russia's economy, and social life has improved by mangnitudes since he took office. He is the Arnold Swarchenegger of Russia. He will **** you up, and doesn't care. He will get his way and it will be done. However, the thing I love most about him is that he is a rationale being that makes compromises while still getting stuff done. Obviously, Russia still isn't completely reinvirogated, but compared to before he took office and before he became the ruler. Russia was a desolete place post 1991.

Putin? Rational? I wouldn't call his religious anti-gay BS rational.
Sure, he archieved some great things, but that doesn't make him any more likeable to me.
One more question and then please let us never talk about him again....
Is there any modern dictator that you don't like?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

Yep, he asked for a TLDR so I'm summing up the key arguments that I am making, of which, since they are arguments will be one sided. 

 

I already gave a few different sides to the arguments in my previous long posts. He asked for a TLDR, so I gave him my side. But because I already included information in the 'main' stuff I wrote, I won't consider it as such.

Fair enough.....


Edited by Tom Yum Goong - 1/23/14 at 9:52am
post #102565 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post
 

Putin? Rational? I wouldn't call his religious anti-gay BS rational.
Sure, he archieved some great things, but that doesn't make him any more likeable to me.
One more question and then please let us never talk about him again....
Is there any modern dictator that you don't like?

 

Fair enough.....

How and why wouldn't you? His country has a demographic of X who are anti gay and extremely religious. If I was in his shoes. I would have made the same statements about gays etc. I'm very pro-gay marriage by the way. In politics, none of it matters. If the population I am representing is X, then I will be X if all the analysis points to me supporting X being beneficial to the country and my office. If the country likes X but analysis shows that my government and inter country relations would better be off with supporting Y as a cost-to-benefit ratio, then I will support Y. This is how the world spins. 

 

He isn't likeable to most people. But I admire him is how I should put it rather than liking.

 

I admire the aspirations, authority, and political actions of most leaders in modern history no matter what their policies are. I'm speaking about this from a 3rd party point of view. In where its all just fascinating really. It's just history. I've learned to acustom myself to see modern and semi-past events as something out of a history book as a way to attempt to eliminate bias. It's worked. There are admirable traits, policies, and directions of almost any leader in history no matter who. It's really all the same to me.

 

Think about history and events as I think about them and you will come to see what I mean. Every now and then, I will use 'in body' type of thinking in the sense that rather than thinking about it as an outsider, I'm thinking about it as a current event that associates me. As you may see, this draws huge bias. 

post #102566 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Yum Goong View Post

I watched the first two episodes of it and kind of lost interest since it looked like it was just going to be a mediocre body-switching show.
Is there more to it?

 

 



It gets quite dramatic. I don't really want to spoil but the show deals heavily with interpersonal relationships and the emotions and actions we choose to show/hide from others. I would say it's quite far from "just a body-switching" show though.
post #102567 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

How and why wouldn't you? His country has a demographic of X who are anti gay and extremely religious. If I was in his shoes. I would have made the same statements about gays etc. I'm very pro-gay marriage by the way. In politics, none of it matters. If the population I am representing is X, then I will be X if all the analysis points to me supporting X being beneficial to the country and my office. If the country likes X but analysis shows that my government and inter country relations would better be off with supporting Y as a cost-to-benefit ratio, then I will support Y. This is how the world spins. 

 



Continuously failing to cater to a minority, or even oppressing them (or making it feel like opression) is a dangerous thing to do. Maybe not in his time in power, or even his lifetime.... but history has shown it can definitely come back to haunt you, your people, or your country.

In this specific case of homosexuality, there might not be much danger of an uprising or anything from that demographic alone, but what if they team up and become sympathizers with another radical and oppressed group?
post #102568 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinarc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

How and why wouldn't you? His country has a demographic of X who are anti gay and extremely religious. If I was in his shoes. I would have made the same statements about gays etc. I'm very pro-gay marriage by the way. In politics, none of it matters. If the population I am representing is X, then I will be X if all the analysis points to me supporting X being beneficial to the country and my office. If the country likes X but analysis shows that my government and inter country relations would better be off with supporting Y as a cost-to-benefit ratio, then I will support Y. This is how the world spins. 

 

 



Continuously failing to cater to a minority, or even oppressing them (or making it feel like opression) is a dangerous thing to do. Maybe not in his time in power, or even his lifetime.... but history has shown it can definitely come back to haunt you, your people, or your country.

In this specific case of homosexuality, there might not be much danger of an uprising or anything from that demographic alone, but what if they team up and become sympathizers with another radical and oppressed group?

A minority? A lot of Eastern Russian and Chinese actions actually cater to the majority. 

 

Opression is such an old word. Let's call it.... security. Countries love using terrorism and security today.

 

If and when that happens, it just happens. Guess what? Despite what Western Media says in convicing the dumb people of every country, the diplomacy of every country is smart enough to know what is going on.

 

If an oppreseed group riots. So be it. Police are brought in. If and when (and will) turn violent, mass action is utilized. If the country has enough military and police strength AND has enough diplomatic pull. Nothing will happen. Western or Eastern media will condem it, and the governments of other countries will make announcements. But when the days over. Guess what? You know whats better for most governmetns in the world? Yeah, a stable government that they can trade and do stuff with.+

post #102569 of 149543
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

A minority? A lot of Eastern Russian and Chinese actions actually cater to the majority. 

 

Opression is such an old word. Let's call it.... security. Countries love using terrorism and security today.

 

If and when that happens, it just happens. Guess what? Despite what Western Media says in convicing the dumb people of every country, the diplomacy of every country is smart enough to know what is going on.

 

If an oppreseed group riots. So be it. Police are brought in. If and when (and will) turn violent, mass action is utilized. If the country has enough military and police strength AND has enough diplomatic pull. Nothing will happen. Western or Eastern media will condem it, and the governments of other countries will make announcements. But when the days over. Guess what? You know whats better for most governmetns in the world? Yeah, a stable government that they can trade and do stuff with.+

 




Yes a minority, I was speaking in the chain re: TYG mentioning Putin's stance on homosexuality and your talking about demo X and demo Y.

Of course you cater to the majority. Oppression and security are not the same thing. A stable govt is nice and all, but if the people in the streets are at each others throats, it won't last.

Your last rhetorical(?) questions.... are you serious or being sarcastic? I can't tell. If you are trying to poke fun at how meddling in other country's affairs is counter productive, that's a fair argument to be had. I also understand that the U.S. (and maybe most of the EU now) have long had a drive towards world homogenization. It's a lot easier to deal with other countries when they act just like you. For instance, you would probably rather rent out a room in your house to your bff that has many of the same ideals as you, rather that that crazy 3rd uncle that likes to tie up and beat his dogs in the back yard.
post #102570 of 149543

Does your "3rd party view" also include ethics, bowei?
I have the faint suspicion that they don't play a real role in your equations.

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