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tube, solid state, and hybrid kit ratings/reviews - Page 2

post #16 of 32
12/18/11 at 10:06am
Thread Starter 
At the end of the day, I want a tube amp project because I have no use for another portable amp. CMOY is out as far as kits go. I am not saying I'll never build a cmoy, i'm saying that when the time comes that I feel comfortable picking parts out on my own and understanding circuit diagrams, I'd rather have the cmoy project available for that experimentation, and if not the CMOY, then the Mini3 due to its superior performance (as far as I've heard).

I do want a kit, but that is because i have no local vendors and I found myself paying close to 50 bucks in shipping due to a screwed up (my fault) part here or a missing part there, or an afterthought. I am willing to try out some of the cheaper bottlehead kits, though i have no idea what those actually entail. I only need a desktop amplifier for my setup, and the bottlehead kits look like they cost close to 500 bucks. The bijou kit costs around 350 after getting the parts that arent included. The Millet Mosfet Maxed costs 169 and I think it comes with everything, and the minimax is also very nicely priced.

I'm not terribly keen on building the bijou, getting to the testing phase, and promptly killing myself, and after reading the page on cavalli about the bijou i'm certain i'll end up in the ER. That being said, i think i'll take a look at the two proposed millet designs and do a bit more research as to which ones I need and what other costs they incur (like power supplies and whatnot).

Regarding me "looking down on a kit for being too simple", I was refering solely to the CMOY, which BCG27 also agreed was too easy. I said the bottlehead kits looked like a "snap together kit" but I still have no idea if this is actually the case. I didnt just want to connect wires to a bunch of pre-built parts is all. I'll give the bottlehead kits a more indepth look but they mostly say skill level 1 and I wouldnt consider myself that low. Skill level 2 is where I feel I'd actually have to engage my mental capacity a little and skill level 3 is where I'd like to be, but those kits are way over budget, even the easy ones.

I was looking at the 2 millets and the bijou because those involved PCBs and circuit mount components and they are within my budget and have an immediate use in my setup.
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post #17 of 32
12/18/11 at 11:08am

Unless my eyes deceive me, the MiniMax and MosfetMax are identical circuits. The kit from Beezar can be ordered complete with the enclosure already milled and silkscreened. The kit from Glass Jar can be ordered with an optional Hammond enclosure, but no mention of any machining, etc.

 

Another relative newcomer would be the new Torpedo kit. It is a partial kit with machined and silk'd enclosure, power and output transformers, and pcb. The balance of the parts I ordered from Mouser to complete this amp was, at that time, about $100. Some of the parts for this amp are also available through Beezar.  I own and listen to a prototype of the Torpedo. Very nice and simple amp. 

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post #18 of 32
12/18/11 at 11:36am
Thread Starter 
Yeah, from looking at images alone the Minimax and Mosfet maxed looked exactly the same save for some rather bada$$ looking metal handles some people added, possibly to protect the tubes.

So I guess that means that once I save up, I'll probably try out the mosfet/mini max, as there is no point building an amp and then dying while testing it.
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post #19 of 32
12/18/11 at 11:43am

What kind of amps have you listened to in the past?

 

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post #20 of 32
12/18/11 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digger945 View Post

Unless my eyes deceive me, the MiniMax and MosfetMax are identical circuits. The kit from Beezar can be ordered complete with the enclosure already milled and silkscreened. The kit from Glass Jar can be ordered with an optional Hammond enclosure, but no mention of any machining, etc.

For most practical purposes, yes, they are very similar.  However, the MOSFET-MAX (Millett Hybrid MAX PCB V1.2) has a few differences:

  • The relay-delay circuit has been improved with a 24V regulator and 24V relay (zener circuit and heavy transistor removed).  This actually causes the relay to open/close much more quickly and removes the transient voltage spikes that you can measure on a typical 12V relay-delay circuit.  Protection diodes have also been changed to suppressor diodes for long-term protection of the relay contacts.
  • The onboard DAC mounting section (Bantam, Grub, or SkeletonDACs) uses a similar 24V regulated relay with suppressor diodes to provide remote switching of the input choices (RCA vs. onboard DAC).  Of course, there is no room in the MiniMAX for an onboard DAC - the amp is a lot more compact than a MOSFET-MAX.
  • Finally, we promote the use of the MAX PCB V1.2 as a MOSFET-MAX, even though it can still be built as a BJT MAX (like the MiniMAX).  There are slight -but important - differences in the output diamond buffer circuit: the current setting FET is different, we recommend the use of input JFETs, the trimmers have different ratings, and there is some swapping around with the resistors - all due to the output MOSFETs instead of output BJT's.

 

Quote:

Another relative newcomer would be the new Torpedo kit. It is a partial kit with machined and silk'd enclosure, power and output transformers, and pcb. The balance of the parts I ordered from Mouser to complete this amp was, at that time, about $100. Some of the parts for this amp are also available through Beezar. I own and listen to a prototype of the Torpedo. Very nice and simple amp.

 

Yes - all of that is still true and the build thread has been on the first DIY page for some time here on Head-Fi.  So, it's easy to check to see what's involved. wink.gif


Edited by tomb - 12/18/11 at 11:51am
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post #21 of 32
12/18/11 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
I think i'll be going with the mosfet version then. Having that mounting sectino for other DAC's is a very nice touch and it would allow me to upgrade the mosfet-max fairly significantly. I'm not sure how the measurements of the Gamma 2 F++ compare to the other dacs listed, but I know that the grubDAC is VERY highly regarded on this site. I havent heard much about the Bantam, not taht i've been looking, but The SkeletonDAC is also another familiar name.


EDIT: It would appear that I screwed up. Earlier, the M3 was mentioned. I somehow got twisted around and thought that by M3, the poster meant the Mini3. I am adding the M3 into consideration for this next DIY purchase.
Edited by shrimants - 12/18/11 at 12:13pm
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post #22 of 32
12/18/11 at 3:38pm

I've heard only good things about the MOSFET-MAX...I have a board for that beauty just waiting for me to buy some parts. The Gamma2 F++ is a tough build... I spent days studying the parts lists and ordering, but what a fantastic device.


Edited by vixr - 12/18/11 at 3:41pm
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post #23 of 32
12/18/11 at 5:05pm
Thread Starter 
yeah, Gamma 2F++ was my first build and I only struggled with the SMD chip on the gamma 2 board. I would have actually done perfectly on that build were it not for the flux paste I used. Honestly, that flux paste is the only reason anything bad happened whatsoever.

Since I used acid flux (didnt know there were different types), I had 1 lifted trace, everything turned this nasty corroded color if I left it for a while, even though it was initially really shiny, and my soldering iron's tip itself corroded into a nasty hook shape. Because of that flux, as I was drag soldering the DAC chip onto the gamma 2 board, the hook shaped tip caught on the last couple traces of the dac chip and bent/broke them.

If I had started with a proper soldering iron like WES51 and done some more research on flux pens and solder paste, I would have done that build marvelously. I got through the SMD's on both chips using that disgusting stupid blunt tip and a 20 dollar soldering iron, so I'd like to think that with proper tools I'd be much better. Thats why I was really reluctant to do a point-to-point kit like bottlehead crack, or a simple beginner kit like the CMOY.

Looking at the bottlehead crack though, I realized that it has a LOT more parts than I initially saw, and as a point to point device it actually could be quite challenging. I figure i'll hone my soldering skills with a surface mount kit and then try bottlehead's S.E.X since it can power passive speakers (which I will probably get a kit of sometime. Something like Aviatrix, probably).
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post #24 of 32
12/18/11 at 5:56pm

Not many DIY amps are surface mount in fact the only one I am really aware of is the Wire. Of course there may be some others that I am not familiar with.

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post #25 of 32
12/18/11 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcg27 View Post

Not many DIY amps are surface mount in fact the only one I am really aware of is the Wire. Of course there may be some others that I am not familiar with.


Well, there was Tangent's PINT and then there was the PPAS, probably the most sophisticated DIY smd amp I've seen.  I believe the PPAS had several group buys and there quite a few kits, if I remember correctly.
 

 

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post #26 of 32
12/19/11 at 7:58am
Thread Starter 
unless me and you have a different vocabulary for what "surface mount" entails, all of AMB's projects are surface mount, as is the bijou, the minimax, mosfet maxed, and torpedo. When I say surface mount, i mean it has a PCB that gets populated. Each part is labeled as R1, C1, U1, etc, and you match that space with what the "sheet" tells you goes in there, then you plug it in after testing to make sure its the right part.

The Bottlehead kits have no PCB as far as I can see. They have resistors and capacitors and inductors, plus some larger parts like transformers and such, but there isnt any PCB to go off of. By looking at the pictures (IE i might be wrong) it looks like you put the major components on the top template portion where the inputs and outputs and volume knobs are, then you connect each component to other components with simple wires between it all. They say thats a level 1 kit for the bottlehead crack but without a PCB, Level 1 might be pretty challenging indeed.
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post #27 of 32
12/19/11 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

unless me and you have a different vocabulary for what "surface mount" entails, all of AMB's projects are surface mount, as is the bijou, the minimax, mosfet maxed, and torpedo. When I say surface mount, i mean it has a PCB that gets populated. Each part is labeled as R1, C1, U1, etc, and you match that space with what the "sheet" tells you goes in there, then you plug it in after testing to make sure its the right part.
The Bottlehead kits have no PCB as far as I can see. They have resistors and capacitors and inductors, plus some larger parts like transformers and such, but there isnt any PCB to go off of. By looking at the pictures (IE i might be wrong) it looks like you put the major components on the top template portion where the inputs and outputs and volume knobs are, then you connect each component to other components with simple wires between it all. They say thats a level 1 kit for the bottlehead crack but without a PCB, Level 1 might be pretty challenging indeed.

Sorry, but you're wrong on that and the vocabulary is an accepted convention in the electronics industry.

 

What you're incorrectly referring to as surface mount is actually a "through-hole" PCB, meaning every part has a wire lead that pokes "through" a "hole" and gets soldered on the other side of the PCB. Surface mount technology (SMT), or also known as SMD (Surface Mount Devices), is constructed with PCB's that have no holes that are used for mounting parts.  All the devices are lead-less, having metal sides that are soldered to pads on the surface of the PCB. In simple terms, it means small, small, small and divided by tiny.wink.gif   Almost all modern electronic devices are built with SMD boards and components.  Exceptions come in with large capacitors, connectors, etc. so that very large devices (PC's, TV's, Receivers, Amps, etc.) often have PCB's that are a mix.  You'll see this, too, even in the designs that are majority SMD like the GrubDAC, SkeletonDAC, AlienDAC, BantamDAC and the amp designs that I mentioned above - they usually have a capacitor or two or an LED that's through-hole.

 

Wikipedia has a good article on it and a couple of pictures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology

   

 

 


Edited by tomb - 12/19/11 at 8:31am
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post #28 of 32
12/19/11 at 8:31am

It's a not knowing what they're referring to problem.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through-hole_technology

 

 

 

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post #29 of 32
12/19/11 at 8:41am
Thread Starter 
Ah, see, i knew one of us was wrong. But yes, I was looking for PCB projects whereas the bottlehead's point-to-point honestly scares me a little.
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post #30 of 32
12/19/11 at 8:41am

To give you an idea of what's involved and how the construction techniquest are different, refer to these links:

http://www.tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/tt03.html

That's Tangent's excellent tutorial on surface mount soldering techniques.  It's how I first learned.

 

You can also get an overall idea of the different tools involved and more good videos here:

BantamDAC tutorial videos

SMD soldering for the GrubDAC

SMD preparation for the GrubDAC

GrubDAC Construction Photos - Part 1

There are other pages in that series, too.

 

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