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[Review] Brainwavz HM5, A New Neutral Champ - Page 90

post #1336 of 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0rnholio View Post

I have also owned a pair of Sennnheiser HD595 which I kinda hated and sold immediately - they seemed to sound too muffed and found the details missing.

 

This is kind of how I found the HM5/Lindy/etc to sound. Kind of muddy, dark, and very laid back. They didn't necessarily lack detail, but the messed up (IMO) frequency response masked a lot of things.

post #1337 of 1671

I think in essence they sound like what they are -- Generic drivers tuned to perfection and installed in a large comfortable frame under dozens of brand names, but just lacking the underlying quality of the Beyer/Shure/etc stuff that costs a little more.

 

I keep listening to mine and thinking "Why don't I like these?" and come up with a different reason every time, but ultimately they're just boring and not very revealing. Every mix sounds identical because of the veil. I can listen to something with piercing, terribly mixed treble (like a poorly encoded Dokken mp3 with a 5 minute guitar solo) on these and it sounds the same, mix-wise, as something with no treble (smooth jazz, etc.). That kills my confidence in them.

 

That may be neutrality, but it's not transparency, which IMO is far more important in any audio device.


Edited by machoboy - 9/26/12 at 6:51pm
post #1338 of 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0rnholio View Post

Hi - is the Lindy Premium Hi-Fi the same with the HM5 ? I live in Romania so I would rather find them in Europe. The price seems very good also ( for Europe at least ):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LINDY-Premium-Hi-Fi-Headphones-/120982845267?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item1c2b23b753

There is also a seller in Germany selling the HM5 but the pricing is a bit different:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brainwavz-HM5-/170887069269?pt=Kopfh%C3%B6rer&hash=item27c9a9be55

 

So that's why I need to be sure it's the exact same product under a different name ( which I don't care ).

 

 

 

PS - I own a Fiio E10 which will power up either of them.

Thanks

As far as I understand they're exactly the same.

 

However if you buy them from mp4 nation the price will be about the same and you will get a free headphone stand included:)

post #1339 of 1671

Not bad - any idea how much is the shipping cost on mp4nation to Europe ? I didn't get much info on the website related to that except they are sent from HK.

 

I am really afraid that these will sound muffed with no details and I understand they are exactly what I was afraid of. I mean I have my BrianWavz ProAlpha and I really like the signature - could use a bit more bass but they certainly give much more expensive IEMs a run for their money. I was kinda hoping these would be the same. I think I will save up some more ( a lot more ) money and go for the K550 as I need a VERY GOOD pair of closed cans and they seem to be the best money can buy in this price range.


Edited by C0rnholio - 9/27/12 at 2:24pm
post #1340 of 1671
EMS shipping is free worldwide. It will probably take 2-4 weks to get them to Europe.

Since mine has'nt arrived yet I cannot comment on the sound.
post #1341 of 1671

I got mine yesterday.  I like them, they are very spacious as people have described.  Before I had these, I have used only Monoprice 8323 ($25 cans).  I know what people mean about the echo, I hear it when I turn the HM5s up loud.  At a softer volume, it is almost not noticeable.  I wonder if this effect would be lessened, or heightened by an amp.

 

They sound "dry" for sure.  I am missing the richness in the mid range, and I think I know what people are talking about now when they ask for, and seek out a "liquid" mid range.  

 

Honestly, they are not, in my opinion even close to 4-5x better than the monoprice cans.  The comfort and styling is much better, but the sound, well, they might be a little bit more revealing and spacious.  All told, the Monoprice 8323 (Premium DJ Headphones), are an absolute bargain at $25 or so dollars.  I would recommend them wholeheartedly.

 

The HM5s are a toss up to me.  I understand when people refer to a veil what they mean, and the mids are too dry for me I think,

 

I would be very anxious to hear these compared to the k550.  They would be what I would have purchased if I had tons of loot.

 

-K

post #1342 of 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by machoboy View Post

I think in essence they sound like what they are -- Generic drivers tuned to perfection and installed in a large comfortable frame under dozens of brand names, but just lacking the underlying quality of the Beyer/Shure/etc stuff that costs a little more.

 

I keep listening to mine and thinking "Why don't I like these?" and come up with a different reason every time, but ultimately they're just boring and not very revealing. Every mix sounds identical because of the veil. I can listen to something with piercing, terribly mixed treble (like a poorly encoded Dokken mp3 with a 5 minute guitar solo) on these and it sounds the same, mix-wise, as something with no treble (smooth jazz, etc.). That kills my confidence in them.

 

That may be neutrality, but it's not transparency, which IMO is far more important in any audio device.

It's funny.

After almost a year of owning them, I agree with this judgement. My initial impression left me wanting in bass/subbass. My ears adjusted. But my final impression leaves me wanting in what you've described as transparency/revelation. I can easily tell when I'm listening to a bad file on my D2K's but can't on the HM5s. I can watch an internet video and not realized it's bad audio on the HM5 that my ears immediately react against if it was my D2K's.

So yes, I'd agree that it's neutral. But it is not very revealing. The soundstage, though nice, is also not on the level of headphones like the D2Ks. I do enjoy listening to drums and horns on these though. They sound natural TO MY EARS.


*I keep mentioning D2Ks because it's the only headphone I kept besides the HM5. that subbass sounds perfect TO ME (minus some slowness). I use both depending on my moods. Considering I paid 3X for the D2Ks, I will never get rid of the HM5s. Unless the price of one of those clones comes down to like 50ish or lower. 

post #1343 of 1671

Crappy part is -  there aren't any audiophile oriented stores in my town so I can't test anythin, and as I said - when it comes to AUDIO equipment and especially headphones which are so different, one must HEAR them out before deciding to pull the trigger - especially for what I am considering to be - a pretty expensive pair of cans such as the K550.

 

One thing is for sure though - I will skip on the HM5 as everyone here states the same thing about them being to .... unimpressive :)

post #1344 of 1671

Actually the people who find the HM5's unimpressive around here are in the minority, think about all you're getting for the price: good sound, good comfort, good soundstage, good isolation and good balance, if that's not a great all-rounder headphone for $100 then I'd really love to know what is.

post #1345 of 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by tree of life View Post

Actually the people who find the HM5's unimpressive around here are in the minority, think about all you're getting for the price: good sound, good comfort, good soundstage, good isolation and good balance, if that's not a great all-rounder headphone for $100 then I'd really love to know what is.


I LOVE my Jaycars, I think they are amazing for the price.  They are my main set of headphones right now.

 

..

post #1346 of 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by tree of life View Post

Actually the people who find the HM5's unimpressive around here are in the minority, think about all you're getting for the price: good sound, good comfort, good soundstage, good isolation and good balance, if that's not a great all-rounder headphone for $100 then I'd really love to know what is.

Exactly.

Like I said.

Unless the price of one of those clones drop down to like 40 or 50, I won't be getting rid of the HM5s.

They do what they do. 

post #1347 of 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyPenguin View Post


I LOVE my Jaycars, I think they are amazing for the price.  They are my main set of headphones right now.

 

..


QFT.  I've got the NVX Audio XPT100s, and they're excellent for the price, considering the audio quality and all the extras you get with them.

post #1348 of 1671

I think it all comes down to a question of : what does a good sound mean exactly ?

 

From what I understand - the HM5 don't have a serious flaw to begin with - the sound when measured in a lab is clean, neutral and overall "right" - however when you listen to them - you don't get the wow factor or the "fun" factor. You don't FEEL pleasure that some "unright" headphones provide ( let's say the M50 as an example ).

 

Of course I am making this idiotic analysis based on what I read here and never heard the HM5s... so don't take me seriously.

post #1349 of 1671
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0rnholio View Post

From what I understand - the HM5 don't have a serious flaw to begin with - the sound when measured in a lab is clean, neutral and overall "right"

 

Actually, this statement is completely false. Take a look at some frequency response graphs (FA-003):

 

 

 

Note the bass hump starting at about 100Hz, and then the large dip at 300Hz. You'll also notice that the highest treble peaks are almost -10dB below that bass hump. This is not at all neutral. This particular graph is actually reminiscent of the dark and muddy sound I got from my pair of HM5s.

 

Here's an FR graph from Changstar:

 

 

This graph shows a lot more treble energy than Innerfidelity's, though Changstar's graphs usually do. We shouldn't really be comparing them anyway since both use completely different methods for measuring and are in different environments, but I think it is worthwhile to note that the bass/lower mids hump-dip shows up here as well. A similar bass/lower mids response showed up on some HM5 measurements taken by Kingpage. They're in an HM5 mod thread he posted somewhere.

 

 

The CSD doesn't appear extremely horrible I'd say, but it's not really clean either. I don't know how to read these well enough to say whether or not the "echo" effect could be showing up here at all. If there were such a thing as a measurement which graphically displayed soundstage, I'd be curious to see if it looked at all as wonky as what I heard from these.

 

 

Now all that being said, these are not necessarily bad headphones. Well, to me they were pretty bad, but "bad" in this case is a term which is relative to an individual's personal preferences, and there's no accounting for taste (not in an immediately practical sense anyway). I will say however, based on these measurements and personal experience, that these headphones are most definitely not neutral, nor would I consider them very high fidelity.


Edited by manveru - 9/30/12 at 8:02am
post #1350 of 1671

As far as frequency graphs are concerned I prefer mine to reflect something akin to the equal loudness curve so that something closer to the following is PERCEIVED. We should all know that lower frequencies are more difficult to hear, justifying the bass increase. But if your ears can pick up bass very well, then it isn't.

 

Of course with the caveat that the high frequency range on headphones are never flat. It will simply depend on individual hearing and experience.
But. regardless of what the graph looks like, I believe what we hear that makes us classify headphones as bassy, mid-centric, treble frieindly, or neutral, is the decibel difference between the frequency ranges with reference to the equal loudness curve. I don't know of that has been theorized before, but it is my own observation.

Take something like a Denon AH-D2000's frequency response graph and a Senn 650's FR graph. Notice on the low end that the D2K's stay even till about 20Hz whereas the Senns starts changing closer to 100Hz.

Similarly, observe the range between 1KHz and 3KHz. Whereas the D2Ks have about a 10db difference, the Senn's change is much less.

But all of that is sorta off topic. It's just how I use FR graphs once I find a sound I like and note any changes I would prefer to have.
As far as just the range of frequencies heard is concerned and ignoring all other factors like detail, soundstage, driver capabilities/hindrances, etc, finding an inexpensive pair of headphones that can produce the sound of the HM5s as well as the bass/subbass of the D2Ks is ideal TO MY EARS.

 

But in manveru's case, that's too much bass :-)

 

IN CONCLUSION.

Hearsay is hearsay. One man's experience is different from another's. The only way they could possibly be the same is if they share more than quite a bit in common. In the audio world, that common thing they must share is how they hear sound. Experts are cool. But ultimately, YOU DECIDE

 

Also note. I could be wrong. I could be right. Part with it what you will. Theories are useless when faced with the real thing. 
Sorry for the rant.

And yes. I own the D2Ks and the HM5s and have auditioned the Senns for several hours.

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