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Sennheiser and Grado experiences... Which did you like better and why?

post #1 of 16
12/12/11 at 3:34pm
Thread Starter 

I want to take the next step up in my listening experience and pair a good mid to mid-high headphone with my Leben CS300XS (15w EL84 tube amp).  Source is Squeezebox Touch into W4S Dac-2.  The Dac-2 will arrive next week.

 

Having never heard the Sennheiser HD650, nor Grado RS1i / PS-500, I was hoping for some opinions from those who have been down both roads.  I have often read about the house signatures - laid back and warm vs. mid bass boosted, aggresive and bright.  What did you like or not like about either signature?  I like a wide variety of music, primarily post punk, dream pop / shoegaze, psychedelic and 60's rock, but also acoustic fingerstyle,  jazz, and old school dub reggae.

 

I've really narrowed it down to these two brands, so I'm not interested in broadening my search beyond Grado or Sennheiser at the moment (perhaps later down the road for a future purchase).  I just want feedback from those who have experienced both Sennheiser's and Grado's mid to mid-high ends.

 

P.S.  If this ultimately leads me to purchase Grado, what is most suitable for my music listening - RS1i or PS-500?  I won't be able to try before I buy.


Edited by starfish - 12/12/11 at 4:26pm
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post #2 of 16
12/12/11 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfish View Post
 I won't be able to try before I buy


Get it from some where with a no-question-return-policy then.

 

The sound of those two headphones are opposites basically. And comfort is also opposite. A Grado with G cush bowls is comfortable enough, but with L cush, it's on ear (both you selected are L cush and on-ear).

 

Do you want something dark, fatigue-free, smooth, bassy, that requires a lot of amplification and is very comfortable to wear?

Or do you want something energetic with great attack that doesn't need much amplification and comfort is more of a hit or miss?

 

Can you budget in a powerful amplifier if you choose to go HD650?

 

And, probably goes without saying, but I trust your music collection is either lossless or near lossless before you jump on some expensive headphones to further your path in audio?

 

Very best,

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post #3 of 16
12/12/11 at 4:06pm

 

Can you budget in a powerful amplifier if you choose to go HD650?

 


So, are you saying that the OP needs more than 15WPC to drive 650's?

 

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post #4 of 16
12/12/11 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the advice so far. 

 

The Leben is quite powerful and drives my 600 ohm AKG headphones just fine around 10 a.m. on the volume pot.  I can't imagine any scenario where it would not be powerful enough for headphones.  Even my 90db sensitive stand mount speakers are adequate in a large furnished room barely opening up the volume pot.

 

My entire music library is lossless FLAC, ripped bit perfect.

 

 


Edited by starfish - 12/12/11 at 4:23pm
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post #5 of 16
12/12/11 at 4:46pm

These are always complicated questions.  It all depends on what kind of music you like and what type of presentation you think you'd be looking for.  For example with the RS1 you might barely hear a cello part compared to the hd 650, and vise versa in different songs.  Sometimes you need the strong presentation of the grados to emphasize poignancy of a track whereas sometimes you need smoothness of 650s.  In addition each company offers different headphones with different variancy of their sound signatures, the ability to produce an accurate sound stage, transparency, resolution etc.  In conclusion, if a trial @ a meet or similar is impossible, find out which part of the sound spectrum you appreciate most in your music, then find a can that matches up to it (via headroom).  If you can try one or the other out, then your question is simple.  

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post #6 of 16
12/12/11 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post


So, are you saying that the OP needs more than 15WPC to drive 650's?

 


Grazed right over that. tongue_smile.gif

 

Very best,

 

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post #7 of 16
12/13/11 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 

I decided to go with the Sennheiser HD650 to start.  I think comfort and long listening sessions won out in this first venture.  These will pair quite nicely with my Leben CS300XS & W4S DAC-2.  I hear one of the strengths of the 650 is scaling with quality gear.  It looks like it will scale right away.  :)

 

The 650 seem to be marked down everywhere in anticipation for the new 700/750 series next year.  If I don't like them I can return them. Either way I can't really lose for $300+.  I'll consider them a modest and well-invested learning experience if I desire an improvement.

 

 Perhaps I'll try a Grado the next time around.

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post #8 of 16
12/13/11 at 3:03pm

I agree with your decision.

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post #9 of 16
12/13/11 at 3:19pm

Go for the RS-1i in the future and hang onto the hd-650 they are much different and will be great to go back and forth on.

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post #10 of 16
12/13/11 at 4:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis View Post

Go for the RS-1i in the future and hang onto the hd-650 they are much different and will be great to go back and forth on.

 

Ok, thanks for the suggestion.  The RS-1i has received many excellent reviews in the audiophile press.  It makes me wonder if the PS-500 isn't partly hype and partly catering to the segment of buyers who didn't like "the Grado sound."

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post #11 of 16
12/14/11 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfish View Post

 

Ok, thanks for the suggestion.  The RS-1i has received many excellent reviews in the audiophile press.  It makes me wonder if the PS-500 isn't partly hype and partly catering to the segment of buyers who didn't like "the Grado sound."


 

I have not yet heard the ps500; I found the RS-1i though to be preferable to the HF-2 and all the other Grados I've heard! 
You may be surprised to find many who swear by their RS-1/RS-1i's saying that they would never sell them.

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post #12 of 16
12/14/11 at 10:14am

I have owned both the HD600 and the RS1 (non-i) for a while. I still have the RS1 and recently bought a HD650, and I think they supplement each other quite well.

 

But to be honest, I think that the HD600&RS1 combo is a better one than HD650&RS1. Both the Grados and the Sennheisers are rather specialized headphones: the RS1 excels with anything that includes electric guitars and the HD650 is most suitable for relaxed, acoustic music. The HD600 on the other hand is a better allrounder, being faster and more airy than the HD650. To sum it up, if had only the HD650 and the RS1, I would be missing something between these two extremes.

 

But still, you should certainly try the RS1(i). It is a terrific headphone.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis View Post
 

[..]

You may be surprised to find many who swear by their RS-1/RS-1i's saying that they would never sell them.

 

 

I would have said so until not very long ago... But I have to admit that the Beyer T1 has replaced the RS1 as my favourite rock headphone. Well, it has replaced all of my other headphones too, anyway. But still, I do not have the heart to sell the RS1, and it does get some use when listening to music with poor sound quality. And it still does sound awesome with Rock & Metal, even if it lacks the T1's resolution and speed.


Edited by Mad Dude - 12/14/11 at 10:17am
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post #13 of 16
12/14/11 at 10:20am

I have tried both extensively.  They are two sides of the same coin (this can proven with FR graphs on Headroom and InnerFidelity) in that the Grado has a slightly prominent midrange and the Senns typically have a slightly sucked out midrange.  I prefer the former.  The Senns don't get the sound of string instruments like violin and cello right in my experience.

 

The Senns are really good phones but not my personal cup of tea.

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post #14 of 16
12/14/11 at 1:54pm

I have the HD-600 and the SR-80i (which I plan to upgrade to the SR-325is sometime soon).  They are very different headphones.  Which I'm in the mood for depends on whether I'm feeling like listening to an edgy presentation of my music (the Grados), or something fairly neutral (the Senns).  I spend more time with the HD-600, but part of that is probably because they're more comfortable than the stock SR-80i, no to mention the price difference.  Once I equalize that it's just a matter of completely different sound signatures.  If I had to go with just company or the other I suppose it would be Grado, but that's likely because I do tend to like a lot of intense, powerful, even harsh music.

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post #15 of 16
12/15/11 at 7:48pm
Thread Starter 

I'm sitting here listening to my brand new HD650s, just broken in barely an hour and I'm having a hard time finding faults with them.  I'm sure I may discover something.  But so far they seem very accurate and revealing.

 

For instance, on Joy Division's Substance (1988) [16/44 Flac], I can hear some high-frequency noise or a slight hiss, a limit of the original AAD.  What I found utterly revealing and slightly spooky was how real and immediate Michael Hedges sounds on Ariel Boundaries (1984) [16/44 Flac].  On the intro of the track After The Gold Rush, a duet with Michael Manring, covering Neil Young's 1970 classic, I can hear some ruffling noise on the flattop of Michael Hedges' guitar.  It sent chills down my spine when I realized that falling against his guitar was his beaded necklace, something he wore regularly during that time period. I also have a faint memory of Michael recanting some recording faux paus after one of his many shows on that tour.  At least I think that is what he said.  Too many years ago.  The point here being that I may have heard this detail before, especially given how well I know the album and track, and the quality of gear I have owned, yet never accurately identified the exact source.  But suddenly it is unmistakable.

 

I should be signing off for the evening but want to keep listening to more music - another good sign so far.

 

Anyway, you get the picture.  So far I'm thinking limitations have more to do with the source than the headphones.  But let me try them over the weekend with some more diverse rock and jazz and see what is revealed...


Edited by starfish - 12/15/11 at 7:52pm
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