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What headphones are you currently rocking? - Page 24

post #346 of 1509
Alessandro MS1i with jumbo pads. Waiting for some wooden distancers to change it into MS1000.
post #347 of 1509
Koss ESP/950. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #348 of 1509

JVC HA-S500 powering off an Objective2.
 

post #349 of 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


The MDR-MA900 is supposedly their attempt at a "second coming" but I haven't heard them. Might be worth a look.
I haven't ever actually laid hands on the O2, but JDS Labs has said they believe it should be fine with the 12R load (so it will at least be stable; I'm not really talking about "does it sound good" just "will it let the magic smoke out?" right here).
And yes the bass lens really does stuff to the sound - it's a piece of damping in front of the driver that helps to balance out the FR (it will defeat HF and improve LF, by simply inhibiting HF's passthrough). I suspect they would become VERY harsh without it (most headphones with this kind of arrangement do, I've never tried it on the F1), perhaps even becoming more like the SA5000 (which lacks this feature - kind of thinking about it now, wonder what the SA5000 would've sounded like with the lens? hrmmmm).
If the amplifier can handle having -Ve put together like that, sure. Or if it has a headphone jack on it already. Otherwise you're asking for serious smoke and pops (it will destroy the amplifier and probably the headphones). Here's a diagram: http://sound.westhost.com/project100.htm Alternately HiFiMan sells a pre-finished adapter that does the same thing (just checked and it's around $100), and this is basically the same principle behind the headphone output circuit in many full-size amplifiers, receivers, IAs, etc (which means there's no point in re-inventing the wheel here).
Regarding the "headphone will pull less watts due to resistance" [ednote: it should be noted that we're talking about impedance, not resistance, because this is an AC system - but that's neither here nor there] - remember that the MDR-F1 are 12 ohms. With my 85wpc/8R amplifier (as a random example), you'll get around 43W/ch into 16 ohms. They take about .1-2W and then blow up. They don't pull *that much* less power. wink.gif If they were 120ohms it'd be another story. In that scenario you'd only see a few watts maximum out, which is still kill-zone, but you'd probably have some usable range on the volume dial. That specific receiver throws 470R between the amplifiers and the headphone jack - which brings its maximum output down to a safe level for most headphones (I've still blown up cheap stuff with it, just for grins, but the TPA6120 can do that too).
Anyways, right now I'm listening to my RS-1. biggrin.gif

That circuit may work well and fine on your headphones, but to ones with a reactive load, it would be pretty bad.  HiFiMan does it because output impedance doesn't at all effect orthodynamic headphones.

post #350 of 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxid10t View Post

That circuit may work well and fine on your headphones, but to ones with a reactive load, it would be pretty bad
HiFiMan does it because output impedance doesn't at all effect orthodynamic headphones.

Simply untrue. The impact of output impedance is highly overblown and misunderstood in the world of consumer audio. redface.gif

Also, we were talking about the MDR-F1 specifically, which are *not* reactive, and therefore even within the land of mythology and faeries, will work just fine and dandy with an adapter box (and if that doesn't do it for you, how about personal experience with them telling you it does?).
post #351 of 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


Simply untrue. The impact of output impedance is highly overblown and misunderstood in the world of consumer audio. redface.gif
Also, we were talking about the MDR-F1 specifically, which are *not* reactive, and therefore even within the land of mythology and faeries, will work just fine and dandy with an adapter box (and if that doesn't do it for you, how about personal experience with them telling you it does?).

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/photogallery/measured-sennheiser-hd598?image=2

It isn't SIMPLY untrue.  Anyway, sound and vision did a test with the Sennheiser HD598 above, and the results are pretty damning.  I myself have also experienced what they graphed.  Although, again, the F1 still probably doesn't have that problem.

post #352 of 1509
Philips Uptown. In the car on the way back from Dallas.
Edited by MorbidToaster - 9/16/12 at 11:51am
post #353 of 1509

Sadly still using the TF10s. Can't locate the Alesandros :(

post #354 of 1509

Need some isolation from the outside world, so IEM's for the past 10 hours or so. SE535. :-)

post #355 of 1509
On school bus with my SE535 (clear)
post #356 of 1509
MS1i w/ comfies. Not good for airy, chillax songs/albums. Good for metal though.
post #357 of 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxid10t View Post

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/photogallery/measured-sennheiser-hd598?image=2
It isn't SIMPLY untrue.  Anyway, sound and vision did a test with the Sennheiser HD598 above, and the results are pretty damning.  I myself have also experienced what they graphed.  Although, again, the F1 still probably doesn't have that problem.

Those are a fairly reactive headphone - that data doesn't speak for all headphones or loads by any means. That's just what a reactive load will do. That said, that graph needs more precision to be worthwile, anything less than 2 dB is below JND. But the F1 aren't reactive and won't behave like that. Also high Z doesn't mean bass boost, it just means altered FR - when I'm not on my phone I have some graphs to show this. The reality is that neither of those scenarioos is wrong though - electrical damping is mythology.

Again I can go into more detail when not a 2" screen and terrible connection.
post #358 of 1509

Hello,all.  New Head-fi'er here.  Right now, at work, I'm rockin' M50's.  Can't wait to get home so I can switch to LCD-2's.

post #359 of 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


Those are a fairly reactive headphone - that data doesn't speak for all headphones or loads by any means. That's just what a reactive load will do. That said, that graph needs more precision to be worthwile, anything less than 2 dB is below JND. But the F1 aren't reactive and won't behave like that. Also high Z doesn't mean bass boost, it just means altered FR - when I'm not on my phone I have some graphs to show this. The reality is that neither of those scenarioos is wrong though - electrical damping is mythology.
Again I can go into more detail when not a 2" screen and terrible connection.

You should probably post this to sound science.  Personally, I am pretty interested in this.  IMO, it seems to me that Sennheiser's audiophile line in general might be very reactive.  That being said, I doubt your Sony's are looking at results for other Sony headphones.

post #360 of 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxid10t View Post

You should probably post this to sound science.  Personally, I am pretty interested in this.  IMO, it seems to me that Sennheiser's audiophile line in general might be very reactive.  That being said, I doubt your Sony's are looking at results for other Sony headphones.

I tend to avoid that place. redface.gif However I just posted roughly the same reply in the Ultrasone Club thread, here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/569107/ultrasone-fan-club-roll-call/1125#post_8708984

I also know that there was, at some point, an Impedance Tutorial in Sound Science that I contributed not insubstantially to at one point. redface.gif It wasn't "dead to rights" accurate, but it was a lot better than a lot of the nonsense that crops up from time to time.

Anyways, it seems that German models in general seem to fit into that trope (Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, and to a much lesser extent, Ultrasone). The HD 598s have actually been measured, here:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD598.pdf (posted so there's no need to guess)

Compare this to a stable headphone:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50B2012.pdf

Regarding the Sony cans - Sony headphones (like many other Japanese models) tend to be pretty stable*, but the MDR-F1 and MDR-MA lineup are explicitly so, because they have a Zobel network included for each driver; the goal being to flatten out the impedance. The downside (and this isn't explicitly a downside to Zobel networks) is apparently a very low nominal Z - the F1 and the MA900 are both 12ohms nominal, which presents an issue for a lot of equipment.

Basically with the HD 598 (or something like the HD 580, which I used to own) if you hook them up to a low Zsource, they can sound "thin" or "bass light" and with a high Zsource they will gain some body (at least imho - others might view it as too much bass). Personally I enjoyed the HD 580 on the 470R taps of my Yamaha more than anything else. Yes you could get the same result with a graphic or parametic EQ. But in the case of something like the M50, it really will not matter because they aren't reactive relative to Zsource. My suspicion is that a lot of people who subscribe to "all amps are different" are basing this on experience with a Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic headphone and trying out amplifiers with wildly varying Zsource figures.

* Some various Sony cans' measurements:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRSA3000.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRVSA5000.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRXB1000.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRV6.pdf (here's an outlier)
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR7509HD.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDRZX1000.pdf

The MDR-F1 have actually been measured before (http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/mdr-f1.html), but the reliability of that suite is somewhat suspect (there is A LOT of post-processing/smoothing going on with those measurements), and there is no impedance data. Also it's in Japanese. redface.gif

To the topic of the thread: right now I am listening to Ultrasone PRO2900s. And enjoying it. beyersmile.png

::EDIT
Just noticed in your signature, you list the HD 595, not the 598 - apologies. Here's the 595:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD595.pdf (a lot of the same but not identical)
Edited by obobskivich - 9/18/12 at 4:02pm
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