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The Wizard Appreciation Thread - Long Live the Wizard - The former HA Appreciation Thread - Page 475  

post #7111 of 7980
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


It also takes fan-boys to blatantly disregard that others can have issues in contrast to their very own experiences ;).

Are you referring to me as a fan boy?  Certainly everyone has there own experiences, no two people will ever see the same event the same way and certainly no two people would ever hear the same way even when listening to the same c/iems or opamps. 

 

Ebbs and flows my friend, both positive and negatives things should be discussed.  A single persons experiences are their opinions only and should be viewed as no more, it is certainly not a gospel for others.  If you read back on this entire thread the only issues that I have had were the blog like, or twitter like updates that were being posted about one persons fit issues that went on for pages.  If you are not happy with the fit send them back in...end of discussion, ciems are expensive enough and I realize that shipping fees may make one rethink a refit however the fees are negligible compared to the cost of the ciems. 

 

We all have had fit issues at one point or another and by different manufacturers, I myself had 2 different pairs of my 4a's made before I was almost happy with the way I thought that they should fit.  So when I purchased my 8a's I decided to have Heir bulk up the 4a mold slightly and then cast the 8a's from it, unfortunately the 8a's would not fit.  Thus I had my 8's remolded with new impressions and they fit exactly the way the 4a's did before they were bulked up.

post #7112 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post

only issues that I have had were the blog like, or twitter like updates that were being posted about one persons fit issues that went on for pages.  If you are not happy with the fit send them back in...end of discussion, 

Amen.

post #7113 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

No, not if the IEM has a spike that shouldn't be there.  A spike at the 8 k attenuates the upper treble a bit, but it is unnatural.  It would actually help to bump it down. The only real spike should be the resonance spike around the 2.7 kHz region which is really there for the acoustic impedance of the ear drum (it tends to be a large spike too).

 

      1) There is an assumption of a spike at 8K Hz, while there is no graph that shows that

 

         A) and before we go to graph wars, be aware that the only "spike" you will find that has any merrit is as high and within the same region as the ER4P

 

      2) acoustic impedance of the ear drum?

 

         I am greatly aware of the desire to spike around 2.5+- due ear canal resonance loss....   but ear drum impedance?

 

 

 I hate to burst people's bubble, but the driver of the ER4P is a "vanilla" driver that has probably been on the market for 30 years. (ED29689) It was never spawned for the use of music, it was intended for hearing aids and for diagnostic use. 

 

On the other hand the driver in the 350 was built from the ground up for the use of music, and I suspect that is why the bass response adheres to my taste better than another popular "reference monitor."  Which is also interesting to note, as when graphed back to back, the Tzar has no more bass boost and actually begins its High frequency climb a touch further out as weel.  

 

Lately I have been using my Tzar 350's as my go to IEMs, inspired by members waxing on how they perform....    and it has been a great reminder of what they can do.  My 5.0s are a little lonely right now....   but they will not go neglected.

 

 

 My Tzar 350

 

My 5.0

 

 

Built with my hands, tested with my ears.

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #7114 of 7980

Dr Moulton, are all the models acoustically tuned to your sonic preference? Also you mention hearing aids and drivers for them. Are hearing aids pretty much IEMs that boost outside sound?


Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/10/13 at 6:02pm
post #7115 of 7980

1) Tune

 

Essentially yes they are tuned around my preferences.

 

  This is probably true for a lot of people, but while growing up, I liked different genres of music, I had "phases" I guess it could be said. County music, Garth Brooks, Randy Travis, Dwight Yoakam, Kieth Whitley, Clay Walker.

 

(Interesting to note, Clay Walker went to my High School, and graduated with my sister)

 

I also appreciated "Blue Grass" and was amazed at the sounds they could make with so few instruments. My father was a fan of Doc Watson and some of my earliest exposure to music was with Doc Watson.

 

Then there was artists like Cyndi Lauper, Sinead O'conar, Phill Collins, Forienger,

 

Then there was the Beastie Boys, Milli Vanilli, MC Hammer (saw him in concert) , Vanilla Ice (Word to your Mother) PM Dawn, Eminem, 50 Cent, Biggy Smalls

 

 

Then there was The Cure, Depeche Mode, U2

 

I also grew to respect artists like Yo Yo Ma, Andy McKee, Trace Bundy, SungHa Jung

 

I also have much respect for You Tube artist that are struggling or just getting started. (I can identify)

 

D-Pryde, Ahmir, DFD (DumbFoundDead), Wax

 

 

Any how, the above is just a taste of what I enjoy, but as you can see, every genre would deserve their own flavor of sound signature to capitalize on the nature of the the music.

 

 

and that is pretty much how I tune IEMs, by building around the sound signature that would capitalize the genre of specific music. 

 

2) Hearing aids

 

The Fact is, most hearing loss, probably well over 90% are within the high frequency range. There are many theories as to why that is...  but that isn't the topic.   Any how, in the early days, we did not have digital hearing aids. We had analog hearing aids, and they were tuned via caps and resistors coupled with a potentiometer. (a very mundane way of doing things compared to now)

 

Any how, the drivers were in many cases, built around the fact that a high frequency boost would be required to assist the hearing impaired.   So really most hearing aid drivers had a HF boost, it really did not matter which driver you selected, in general they all had a boost, they really differed in size and shape to accommodate different hearing aid styles. They also differed in impedance's and such to accommodate different SPLs and battery drains etc,

 

Then along came the IEM.

 

Remember the days when every one said/felt or believed balanced armatures IEMs were all "bright" and "clinical?"  (I do, and they pretty much were)

 

But those days are gone, as Knowles and Sonion strive to build drivers that can do different things, in order to address the exploding IEM market.  For example there is a bass driver now, that has the exact housing as the ER4P driver (ED29689) but is ported, and designed from the ground up for music. (the driver happens to be the bass driver in the Tzar 90)

 

So essentially gone are the days, when an IEM is based around a generic hearing aid driver.  It still can be done, but I don't think it is as common as it was 10 years ago.

 

 

Wizard


Edited by FullCircle - 5/10/13 at 9:46pm

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #7116 of 7980

Wow! As ever a fountain of knowledge! Thanks for the info Doc. 

 

PS Your sonic preferences are quite exquisite to say the least... biggrin.gif

post #7117 of 7980

Thanks Wizard,

 

   That was a fun read.  Out of curiousity what genre is the 8.A tuned for?

post #7118 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviltooth View Post

Thanks Wizard,

 

   That was a fun read.  Out of curiousity what genre is the 8.A tuned for?

 

 Music  

 

The 8.A has the ability to play a wide variety of genres and perform at amazing levels, it is a Porsche Cayenne Turbo (but better looking). From Dub step to Yo Yo Ma they will surprise you.

 

And to further the "grin factor" use them to watch movies....  

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #7119 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullCircle View Post

 

 Music  

 

The 8.A has the ability to play a wide variety of genres and perform at amazing levels, it is a Porsche Cayenne Turbo (but better looking). From Dub step to Yo Yo Ma they will surprise you.

 

And to further the "grin factor" use them to watch movies....  

I think the Cayenne Turbo lacks oomph, so how about the Mercedes G63 AMG 6X6   tongue_smile.gif

 

 


Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/11/13 at 5:31am
post #7120 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

I shouldn't have sold them, I kind of regret it, the good thing is that I'll be getting the Tzar 350, I am going Neutral all the way that's my sound, lol!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post


The TZAR 350 IS NOWHERE NEAR NEUTRAL. The 350's are analytical sounding detail monsters which means they're a colored sound just like a warm overly bassy piece of gear is considered colored. A neutral is considered uncolored and has no emphasis of it's own. The 350's treble has been overly tuned and emphasized which is a far cry from neutral.

 

Not to sound rude on the thread but I've been biting my tongue the last little while over all these posts calling the 350 neutral. I had the Tzar 350 sent to me by another head-fier and put a good amount of head time on it and I'm lost as to why so many people on here are calling the 350 neutral. Has anyone here even heard any gear that's actually neutral? A neutral will sound like absolutely nothing. The only time it will sound warm or bright is when the source music demands it to sound like that. An before anyone asks, yes, a neutral, a well done one at least, can sound warm with one song and overly analytical with another. A neutral will dutifully sound like whatever the music demands of it. A analytical will not do that no more then a bass cannon will. An analytical will always sound analytical and will always have overly aggressive treble because it was tuned that way. It will not play the music the way it was meant to be heard because it wasn't designed to. It was designed to sound analytical and extract a lot of micro detail from the music which is NOT NATURAL SOUNDING. Come on people, there's nothing wrong with being over the top with your product love but let's not go crazy and start putting a dress on a pig and naming it Marilyn Monroe.

 

Thanks, DigitalFreak and all the other commenting about "neutralism" if that's a word, now I am really confused, between the 4.A and the 8.A, my favorite was the 4.A since to me it sounded more natural or neutral or balanced  to me and that's the problem how someone know if something               is neutral, Natural or balanced?  you have a good point just as the others, so now I don't know what I should buy, and sorry for bringing this back 3 days later!

post #7121 of 7980
Natural really has no real definition as its entirely subjective. Natural deals with how something would sound in the real world.

Balanced actually means to have a v-shaped signature. It can be anywhere from a slight V to a deep one.

Neutral means to have a flat response in terms of the ear drum. The standard to reach this currently is to use the Diffuse Field compensation (Rin, HeadRoom, and Innerfidelity both do this to their graphs; colored is compensated, grey is raw if its available). Alternatively, a real ear to coupler (RETC) compensation can also be done if you're using a 2 cc coupler.
post #7122 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

Natural really has no real definition as its entirely subjective. Natural deals with how something would sound in the real world.

Balanced actually means to have a v-shaped signature. It can be anywhere from a slight V to a deep one.

Neutral means to have a flat response in terms of the ear drum. The standard to reach this currently is to use the Diffuse Field compensation (Rin, HeadRoom, and Innerfidelity both do this to their graphs; colored is compensated, grey is raw if its available). Alternatively, a real ear to coupler (RETC) compensation can also be done if you're using a 2 cc coupler.


I equate natural with a more laid back signature generally. But also with IEMs that present the detail effortlessly and in a convincing manner. Or even to the point where you could imagine yourself relative to that presentation opposed to just "in your head sound" which is 99.9% inclusive of IEMs. Only a very few select IEMs achieve otherwise.

 

I consider a neutral IEM to allow the music to do its thing. If it calls for bass heavy it will be. If its mid-centric it will be. If its v-shaped or recessed mids in the actual track it will be presented that way. Pretty much track dependent opposed to IEM dependent. But I also consider neutral to be on the bland-side/lifeless, non-offensive, even boring lol.

 

I consider balanced to be along the lines of neutral but not dead neutral. Slightly away from it in one form or another. But there is balance between the treble, mids and bass without anyone overpowering the other and they compliment each other.


Edited by lee730 - 5/11/13 at 2:46pm
post #7123 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

 

 

Thanks, DigitalFreak and all the other commenting about "neutralism" if that's a word, now I am really confused, between the 4.A and the 8.A, my favorite was the 4.A since to me it sounded more natural or neutral or balanced  to me and that's the problem how someone know if something               is neutral, Natural or balanced?  you have a good point just as the others, so now I don't know what I should buy, and sorry for bringing this back 3 days later!

I always thought neutral meant, as true to the recording as possible. Ie flat frequency response and no colouring?

post #7124 of 7980

See, everyone has different points of view, but let's end this argument let's go back to talk about Heir Audio gear

post #7125 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

See, everyone has different points of view, but let's end this argument let's go back to talk about Heir Audio gear

 

+1

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

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